death

Just for the record: The bible does not support the idea of life after death.

What is your source?

Just for the record: The bible states - John 14:6: "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." In Daniel 12: 1-4, Daniel talks of the end of the age where it says, "Many that sleep in the dust shall awake to everlasting life."
Just 2 of many references.

I wasn't saying there couldn't be a resurrection. The hope for everlasting life is one of the central themes of the bible. Until that time the dead are dead.

Ecclesiastes 9: 5,6; "For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun."

More references available.

Neologist - any references such as the one in Ecclesiastes (the dead are dead) in the New Testament?
*You've sparked my interest and I'm betting you've done the research.

I do not want to turn this into a religious debate so I will just state the following.

In chapter 9, there isa brief discussion concerning death. Let's consider two of the statements, and note some truths that are highly significant for our own spiritual instruction. The text reads as follows:
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. As well their love, as their hatred and their envy, is perished long ago; neither have they any more a portion for ever in anything that is done under the sun" (9:5,6 - ASV). We could just as easily use the NKJV

First, the writer acknowledges the universal truth that everyone is destined to die. With the exception of the generation that witnesses Christ's return (1 Corinthians 15:51), death is an appointment that each person must keep (Hebrews 9:27). From both experience and scripture, the living know they shall die! Though some medical authorities arrogantly promise virtual immortality in the future, death is still a certainty. Were it not for the fear of death (Hebrews 2:15), humanity would be even more wicked than it now is. The knowledge of eventual death is, therefore, an incentive to godly living.

Second, Solomon stated that "the dead know not anything." Religious materialists have long misapplied this passage by asserting that the dead are unconscious. Such a view makes this passage conflict with numerous other texts which clearly indicate that the dead are aware of the environment in which they exist (cf. Isaiah 14:9; Luke 16:19ff). The fact is, Solomon's declaration merely affirms that the dead are not cognizant of events transpiring "under the sun" (9:6b), i.e., on earth. The dead are not privy to anything that is happening upon this planet. This truth contains implications that are devastating to some religious practices.

More references available but will pass on filling this thread with information that most people probably don't want to read.

Just for the record: science does not support the idea of life after death. While we do not know how consciousness is produced, we do know exactly what structures in the brain are necessary to produce it. If any of these areas is damaged, the corresponding aspect of consciousness is degraded. (If you are interested in the specifics, I highly recommend Antonio Damasio's book "The Feeling of What Happens") Consciousness is also affected by drugs, which would not be true if it were independent of the physical brain.

Conscious existence is impossible once the brain decays. The only possibility of life after death is to cryogenically preserve the brain.

Aidan, your brain and senses can continue to function even when your heart stops temporarily, at least until the brain runs out of oxygen. The feeling of being loved may have been caused by a release of endorphins or other chemicals enhanced by the knowledge that many people were doing their best to save your life.

I have not had a NDE, but I do know what it feels like to undergo general anesthetic. Consciousness and the sense of self absolutely disappear, as it does during deep non-rem sleep.

Much as I would like to believe in life after death, I expect that when I die "I" will cease to exist, just as I do each night, only this time I will simply never wake up.

wow... my eyes are tired of reading so much.
who knew id spark so much interest? i think my question might have been answered that suites me. i think a post not to long ago was saying that when you die its like going to sleep but never waking up. Now i know that some people on these boards are like SUPER smart. but putting science aside...
cold you imagine. like YOU personally, not having any awareness around you? i mean, i can't comprehend that when i die, i don't exist. Usually i can mentally put myself into different situations, so me no being able to know what it would be like ( or since we're dead we wouldn't know ) to not be around anymore makes me really think about it. Can anyone really put themselves into a situation where they aren't around anymore??

=-=-=-

sorry if this is a waste of time or anything ...

It's true that many here are Mensa candidates. Many also are expert at slinging word smorgasbord with little intellectual nutrition. The bible has good advice whether you are a believer or not. "Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine." (1Thessalonians 5:21)

Or, if you prefer Edgar Allan Poe: "Be careful not to mistake that which is merely complex for that which is profound."

Aidan; I haven't forgotten about you.

To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make*
With a bare bodkin*? who would fardels* bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience doth make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action.

*****************************

"his quietus make" means to commit suicide

a bare bodkin is an unsheathed dagger

a fardel is a burden

Knowing you Setanta, I would not be surprised if you typed it from memory. It certainly ranks as a classic essay on death.

Morbid young mope, the Prince of Denmark was . . .

At the time of the French Revolution, there was an adroit young lawyer named Maximilien Robespierre, who took over the course of the revolution in Paris, and was a founding member of le Comité de salut publique--the Committe for Public Safety, which was eventually responsible for most of the executions by guillotine which were known as The Terror. He was opposed to institutionalized religion, and he had signs put up on the walls of all of the cemeteries of Paris which, translated into English, read: "Here is only eternal sleep."



Not at all, you sparked quite a reaction, and you are welcome among all of us "brains" () for having done so . . . set a spell, take yer shoes off . . .

Neologist has not answered yet and I would venture it is because he can find no such items in the New Testatment. Instead he will find verses like the following:

Matthew 17:9  And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

John 5:25  Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 11:25  Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Romans 14:9  For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

1 Corinthians 15:35  ¶But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they
come?

1 Corinthians 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

2 Corinthians 1:9  But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:

1 Corinthians 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

James 2:26  For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Revelation 20:13  And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Au contraire; intrepid one.

We can start with 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-16: "13 Moreover, brothers, we do not want YOU to be ignorant concerning those who are sleeping [in death]; that YOU may not sorrow just as the rest also do who have no hope. 14 For if our faith is that Jesus died and rose again, so, too, those who have fallen asleep [in death] through Jesus God will bring with him. 15 For this is what we tell YOU by Jehovah's word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep [in death]; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice and with God's trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first."

John 5:28,29: "Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."

Sleeping in death in the memorial tombs hardly represents consciousness.

BTW, none of the scriptures you cite disprove anything I have yet said. God can raise the dead. I never said he couldn't or wouldn't.

Not once did I allude to consciousness

Thanks Intrepid and Neologist (and you too Setanta - always enjoy the poetic references)- I, like Revo, am truly impressed by the collective intelligence here. As someone who tends to be a lazy researcher, I truly appreciate the continuing education - or in some cases review - (sometimes I just need to be reminded that I already know something).

Then it's time for a Pepsi break!

no one has really answered my question? lol :wink: can anyone imagine what it would be like to be dead? I know some people say its like a machine thats being shut down, but could you imagine... i dunno how to explain it... like when you're dead, and you can;t function, just not being able to live??

There have been several answers, I think. Or have I missed it?

My suspicion is that it won't be like anything, because you won't have any thoughts.