Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 11:08 am
I second that.
0 Replies
 
agrote
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 11:14 am
Bella Dea wrote:
We are basically energy and matter. Energy and matter can't be destroyed, only changed. So yes, we do exist after death. Only in different form. Whether or not this is conscious, I can't say. But we do "exist" in a sense.


Doesn't energy consist of matter?

Also, what do you think makes you 'you'? You seem to be suggesting that we are just lumps of matter, and since matter cannot be destroyed, we must always exist. But when we die, we consist of completely different matter to the matter that we were born as - cells are constantly beign replaced. So does this mean that I am not the same person I was five minutes ago?
0 Replies
 
agrote
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 11:15 am
aidan wrote:
1) Because you specifically can only see and be convinced of the existence of matter, are you convinced that that's all anyone else can see or has evidence of?


Well no, I can't assume that everybody sees only what I see. But if somebody else finds evidence for something non-material existing, that's not much use to me unless they can show me what they've seen. If somebody told me that material is made up of subatomic particles, they could prove this to me with a microscope, etc. But if you see a ghost, you can't prove it to me. As has been said, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. I do not claim that there is evidence for the non-existence of non-material things (how could there be?) or that it has been proven that the universe consists only of matter. Instead, I believe that the questions, 'do non-material things exist?' or 'is there life after death' are silly.

Getting back on topic, me speculating that there is life after death seems just as useless as me speculating that my mother is a lion in disguise. She might be, but she probably isn't - she doesn't have a tail, for a start. I reject the notion of life after death, not because I claim to know that 'when you die, you're dead,' but because the idea of life after death is arbitrary and baseless. And it's quite vague as well. We have pretty good evidence for dead people being dead - if you watch someone die, they sort of stop moving, their body stops working, and the corpse rots. It doesn't look like there's life after death. There is some justification, you have to admit, in believing that death is the end. The theory that we carry on living in spirit, however, is not supported by any evidence. Or if it is, nobody has managed to convey that evidence to me.

'Is there life after death?' is a silly question.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 11:24 am
Anyone want to buy a slightly used net?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 11:27 am
Kirk out . . .
0 Replies
 
agrote
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 11:27 am
Well done, that's a slightly less silly question.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 11:29 am
agrote wrote:
'Is there life after death?' is a silly question.

You obviously have too much starch in your underwear, agrote. Speculation about life after death has been one of the central themes of history and religion for thousands of years. Priests have relied on such credulous beliefs to control entire populations for the benefit of kings. Diderot put it succinctly when he said "Mankind will never truly be free until the last king has been strangled with the entrails of the last priest."
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 11:31 am
neologist wrote:
You obviously have too much starch in your underwear . . .


A thoroughly unwarranted speculation on your part . . . and absotively high-larious . . .
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 11:34 am
Setanta and Brandon - I didn't mean to start wwIII :wink: I appreciate your defense of me Setanta - although I don't "know" Brandon well enough to have read his questioning of me to be snide or sneering. I will readily admit that when it comes to scientific matters most people on this board probably have superior knowledge and reasoning powers to mine. Just about the only thing that appeals to me about science is the absolute miraculous design and process I see enacted everywhere in everything around me everyday. That's why I was attracted to even thinking about this question - because by virtue of all the unknowns it lends itself to interpretation from those of us who tend to think with the other side of our brains. And while I know that might not be what you guys were after (who asked the question or posted the topic initially anyway - I forgot), I am truly fascinated by those people I find all the time who are so positive about things. I just don't know how that happens for some people, because it almost never happens for me. That's all I was saying. I don't have a dog in this race - I don't purport to know what happens either way - I'm just amazed that others can be so sure. I prefer to remain open to the mystery....
0 Replies
 
agrote
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 11:34 am
Setanta wrote:
neologist wrote:
You obviously have too much starch in your underwear . . .


A thoroughly unwarranted speculation on your part . . .


Yeah it would worry me if that sort of thing was obvious to Setanta.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 11:39 am
Nobody is sure aidan. Speculation, conjecture, opinion, need to oppose, superiority, guessing, etc. etc. will produce answers but not one of us can absolutely, positively give the final authority.

As for me, I believe that the body is just a container and is discarded after we are finished with it. The soul? That is something else and I believe that it lives on.....
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 11:42 am
Can we be beamed up now . . . please . . .
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 11:54 am
No, you must stay and read every post. Return to your seat in the corner Mr. Setanta. Laughing
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 11:58 am
Setanta wrote:
Can we be beamed up now . . . please . . .



No can do. Scotty is nowhere to be found.
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 12:13 pm
agrote wrote:
Bella Dea wrote:
We are basically energy and matter. Energy and matter can't be destroyed, only changed. So yes, we do exist after death. Only in different form. Whether or not this is conscious, I can't say. But we do "exist" in a sense.


Doesn't energy consist of matter?

Also, what do you think makes you 'you'? You seem to be suggesting that we are just lumps of matter, and since matter cannot be destroyed, we must always exist. But when we die, we consist of completely different matter to the matter that we were born as - cells are constantly beign replaced. So does this mean that I am not the same person I was five minutes ago?


No, you aren't exactly the same as you were 5 seconds ago.
0 Replies
 
revo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 05:09 pm
wow.... Shocked at least the flame war between set and brandon wore off but, i might be to young to be on these boards.. i feel inferior.. lol Embarrassed Embarrassed you guys seem a lot older then me but, this might ave been answered, but when we die, do we become someone/thing else? i mean we'll never find out, but when our body stops working, could anyone comprehend the fact that you can't be consciously aware of what's aound you? i mean even when you're sleeping, you sorta know you're you, and that you're there. im just a fourteen-year-old freshman wondering about life Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 05:11 pm
Hop on in, Revo, your opinion in a matter such as this is just as good as anyone else's.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 06:36 pm
revo wrote:
wow.... Shocked at least the flame war between set and brandon wore off but, i might be to young to be on these boards.. i feel inferior.. lol Embarrassed Embarrassed you guys seem a lot older then me but, this might ave been answered, but when we die, do we become someone/thing else? i mea we'll never find out, but when our body stops working, could anyon comprehend the fact that you can't be consciously aware of whats aound you? i mean even when you're sleeping, you sorta know you're you, and that you're there. im jsut a fourteen-year-old freshman wondering about life Very Happy
You will find that the answers all require a starting point of some sort. By that I mean you need to answer a few things for yourself. You can always change your mind later. Most of us have had more than one epiphany.

So ask yourself things like:
Do you believe in God?
If you believe in God, do you also believe he has communicated a message to humans?
Where might that message be found?
Etc.
Don't get caught up too deeply in the science vs. religion arguments. If there is a God, He no doubt is one very talented scientist.
0 Replies
 
revo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2005 08:29 pm
now THAT i undestand Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

=--=-==---=

and at the begining i was saying if there wasn't a heaven what might happen? what could humans comprehend on what might happen
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2005 01:52 am
revo wrote:
now THAT i undestand Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

=--=-==---=

and at the begining i was saying if there wasn't a heaven what might happen? what could humans comprehend on what might happen


Revo - I'm glad you came back and that you're still interested enough to continue questioning. I think the key is that different humans are capable of differing levels and types of comprehension. And any one particular set of beliefs or set of facts is not superior to any other. Some people are incapable of or are not interested in trying to comprehend anything that is beyond their particular scope of interest or experience. Heaven, hell and life after death are concepts that extend beyond what most of us still alive on earth have experienced. I think Neologist is exactly right. You have to question, and will hopefully have experiences as you live your life that will point you to the answer that is right for you. The only piece of advice I will give you is that it is important, no matter how impressive someone's vocabulary is, or how extensive their library of facts is, that you never let anyone tell you what is true for you. You are the only one who knows that...

Anyway - have you ever heard of near death experiences? I had one once, and it changed my whole way of thinking about and looking at death. I know that a lot of people think that they're hogwash. And I'm not sure what I believe about them myself to be honest - all I know is that is one experience I had that has affected my outlook. And I know what I saw and what I felt and what is now true for me. If you want to hear about it - let me know.
0 Replies
 
 

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