College Loan Forgiveness

Yes they do:

There are scholarships and grants (which you don't have to pay back), and loans (which you do). Some of what you receive is based on income and some can be based on academic merit.

Here are seven other ways to help pay for college:


1. Grants
Colleges, states, and the federal government give out grants, which don't need to be repaid. Most are awarded based on your financial need, and determined by the income you reported on the Free Application for Federal Student Aid, or FAFSA.

Last year, undergrads at public colleges received an average of $5,000 in grant aid and those at private colleges received about $16,700, according to The College Board. The biggest grant awards usually come from the the college itself.

Colleges will take into consideration how much they think your family can afford to pay for college and try to fill in the gap with a grant. Some pledge to fill in more of the gap than others.

Federal Pell Grants, on the other hand, are capped at $5,920 a year and most go to families who earn less than $30,000 annually. Eligibility for state grants vary.


2. Ask the college for more money.
Yes, you can haggle over financial aid. Experts suggest having the student write a formal appeal letter and then follow up with a phone call.

It's worth reemphasizing why you're a good fit for the school, and whether or not you received more aid from a comparable college.

Maybe you can do a better job explaining your financial situation. Sometimes your family might have other expenses, like medical bills, that aren't already taken into consideration. It's also a good idea to mention if your family's financial circumstances have changed in the past year because the FAFSA is based on your income from the prior year.

https://money.cnn.com/2017/04/25/pf/college/pay-for-college/index.html

Ivy league colleges do not give merit scholarships or grants - they only give based on financial need.

We looked at a college that was considered a "small ivy" - they provided 100% financial need without any loans so your financial package would not include any loans. The college gave these not the government.

Not sure even what you are referring to here as far as debt at graduation - of course it is - I gave an example just of what you would owe for your freshman year - so maybe that is what you are not understanding -- if you accumulate any other loans that would be added to your debt.

The only other thing I think you may be confusing things on is subsidized vs. unsubsidized loans - subsidized means the government is subsidizing your interest so that you do not accumulate any interest until you graduate whereas unsubsidized you begin accumulating interest from the point the loan is opened.

I am completely sure I know what I am talking about.

"What is the difference between a Direct Subsidized and a Direct Unsubsidized Loan? The federal government pays the interest for Direct Subsidized Loans while the student is in college or while the loan is in deferment. Interest begins accruing for Direct Unsubsidized Loans as soon as the loan is taken out."

https://studentloanhero.com/featured/whats-the-difference-between-subsidized-and-unsubsidized-student-loans/

But the poor get the subsidized loans... read the link I provided previously about the difference between these two loans. So if neptune is poor as claimed neptune would have been awarded a subsidized loan.

We have unsubsidized loans.

Ok, for a change from the usual, I am putting the quote at the end of this, because I want what I say to be the focal point. Just need the quote to provide context.

This thread, and what tsar has addressed below and in his other posts, just keep going through my mind.

I'll try to keep the following bitchfest short, then ask my questions.
It is so frustrating to be unendingly told things like "how quaint", "your generation doesn't see things clearly", "you think it is just that simple", etc. At the same time, we apparant dunderheads are given over and over again links that inform us of $1.3 trillion in debt, high housing costs, low wages. etc.
But where is the context? $1.3 trillion in debt. But divided by how many people with loans? Looking it up, numbers vary, but one source says 44.2 million. That and some other figure I found that was a stand alone give the results as an average debt of $29K to $38K.
Oh, but that "just an average" Yes, it is. it means that while some might have $75K debt, others have $10K
My main complaint, whenever the subject of student loans come up, is that the vast majority of what we are told we don't understand are these mind bending numbers like $1.3 trillion, how no one will ever get out from under it. Millions of people, underemployed and so on.

We......understand.....we.....heard......you.....the first 50 times you sent us those links and told us how we have ruined everthing for you.

We look at your big numbers, do the math and say "ok, it's 29K to 38K on the average. A big number sure, but let's see what we can do with it.

We hear they keep changing the schedule/ terms, a multitude of other things, but no answers to questions.

But when asked if part of that is raising the interest rate? No answer.

When asked how often they make these changes, just like they have done with let's say mortgages? No answer.

That is something I often feel about communications with a certain range of age. In a way it feels like click bait. Now before anyone loses their sh!t over that, it's a joke son.
But in a way, true.
Speaking for myself, and that's the only one I can speak for, I'm not belittling or making light of your debt. But to understand it so maybe you'll stop calling me out of touch, I need specifics.

I don't care about millions. It's this big number intended to produce hopelessness. It's meant to paralyze.
I care about individuals. What is Your specfic debt? What are Your payments? What is Your budget for everything you spend?

Why is it there is no response when I ask people, as individuals, if they understood their loan agreement, if they check every month to see if payments were applied properly, if the payment schedule changed, if something was wrong did they have it corrected.

2 links, one provided by tsar, one by neptune, provided such mixed messages.

tsar, you provided the 1.3 trillion number..... Then below that, the same article that was to show how horrible things are, tells you to keep up on what is going on, and when you see a mistake, have it corrected.

neptune also shows some figures how bad the debt is....Then the article goes on to show how one guy takes on extra work, and I think some other guy did the same. One pays in off in 7 years, the other in 5.

What was supposed to show how terrible things are was to me actually inspirational on how these 2 individuals sallied forth and took control.

I've not had a response to the following, I can only think because there are eyes rolling out of their sockets over how quaint I am....

For someone who is getting by, even if barely, is there indeed something else you could be doing?

I get the impression that many feel like "there's 1.3 trillion debt, I give up." Or even "I personally have $38K debt, I give up." Then the disconnect how not spending or earning literally less than a dollar a day can have an impact.

What is that about?
In the college that you went to, that put you into debt, did no one ever show you an amortization schedule? I'm serious, not kidding. If some professor didn't have a class in it, or if your parents for someone unknown reason were ignorant of it as well, had you just not on the entire internet ever come across the power of early payments of even small amounts?

Next I feel like I'm treading on to some sacred ground, but here goes....
During the course of every month, for someone that let's assume does not have one red cent left over, are you really, honor bright, telling me that there was nothing you could have not bought, not one coupon, rebate, paid errand, few hours gig, something, anything, that you absolutely positively could not have scraped up some coin/paper to put in that prepayment envelope?
If you did that consistently, and was able to cut a few years off your loan, do you honestly think you will look back and say "That was so bad that I didn't get something from the vending machine every other time I wanted something. I missed over time one festival a year I wanted to go to and my life isn't complete.

I mean seriously, WTF?

But all I get in response is you don't think clearly, how quaint, you don't understand.

Me? I wonder who isn't thinking clearly sometimes when a person can't figure out that even the smallest amount of money, produced by honestly small little consistent method will turn into something huge.

If someone could answer the questions I posed, without going off into the big general picture, but looking at yourself and your debt situation as an individual, I'd be very interested.

tsar, how much debt did you start with?

What were/are you payments?

Did you ever do extra work and put that money for prepayments?

When you saw changes in your loan payments was it ever a higher interest rate? If so, how much did the increase your monthly payment?

How many times have conditions changed, and what were those condition?

When the conditions changed, did you call the lender to correct or confirm or whatever needed to be done?

Do you feel anything you could have occassional (god I'm not even talking regularly, heaven forbid) cut out or diminished that could have gone into prepayments?

Regardless of how quaint you feel these questions are, these are important.
If in college, in a class taught by some acknowledged authority, they told you that after your graduation you should set aside before anything else this small amount from your paychecks and showed you what kind of impact it had?
Would you have thought them quaint, or been like "wow, this is good stuff, it's really going to help."

In 1981, in a general economics class, we were told, off handedly, about this unbelieveable thing called a IRA.
It seemed absolutely impossible in what it promised.
What?! You mean for putting aside this little bit of money each month, I could end up with THIS MUCH? No way.

Yes way.

Later with Roth IRA? I lost my mind with the concept.

We are not quaint or stupid guys.

I think part of the problem is that we have become what I call an Instant Gratification society. There is no (or little) concept of putting off what you want to have in order to take care of what you have already obligated yourself for. (I am speaking in general terms. I am not speaking to either tsar or Neptune since I do not know either and can make no judgement on their situation.) I think many younger people see something they want and have no problem going into debt to get it. Now, how does that relate to college loan debt? Well, glad you asked.

I think that often, someone gets out of school with this huge debt (that they agreed to in order to get an education) and they start working but they then want all the perks of that they see others getting. They need that new car. (More debt) They need to rent the very nicest apartment (big rent) or buy the really nice house (more debt) or they have to get the newest greatest thousand dollar phone. Then they whine about that terrible student loan payment and how they can't get it paid off and STILL LIVE THE LIFESTYLE they think they deserve. The concept of living modestly and paying off debt before incurring more is totally foreign because people want instant gratification.

When I graduated college in 1981, my first job out of college paid me $10,000/year. (Some younger people may not believe it, but that was decent money back then for a starter positing in SC.) My student debt was around $4,000. I had a car payment that was nearly paid off. Now granted, I lived with my parents for about 7 months after graduating before I moved into a modest townhouse apartment a few months prior to getting married. So within a year of graduation, I was married and living on my own. My wife and I didn't have much, but by Christmas we had managed to pay off my student loans. How? Because we didn't buy stuff we did not need. I didn't have cable TV because it was too much. We furnished the apartment with very inexpensive furniture. (Except for the bedroom where we spend a lot of time, but that's another story. lol) We often saw things we wanted but chose to forgo the purchase because it was more important for me to pay off what I already owed on my loan.

All that to point out that I do understand the difficulty young people go through with high student loan debt. But just because it is difficult does not mean the government should FORGIVE YOUR DEBT. It means you have to make hard choices about the lifestyle you lead for a few years. So I don't care whose toes I step on, but if you borrow money, for whatever reason, you pay it off. The government has no responsibility to pay it for you. You do. Welcome to the world of being an adult. (I realize there may not be any young people reading this thread and that I am only writing the above for my own satisfaction. But it was very cathartic.)

Couldn't agree more. And if you finance something that didn't work out as well as you had hoped, that doesn't mean you don't have to pay back the loan.

I know a good number of recent college graduates and I don't see them living high. Many of them share apartments or live with their parents. That doesn't mean that some don't act the way you describe but I see that as the exception, not the rule.

One observation from your post was that your college debt was around 40% of your starting salary. I think one issue today is that college debt is often 200% of starting salary. It's hard for someone making $50k/yr to support $100k of debt. Of course, the way to avoid that is to go to cheaper colleges and I think there needs to be more of that, more community colleges and commuter colleges offering useful degrees, but the other end of that is to reduce the price of college in general. The post WWII generation had the GI Bill and that is widely regarded as a government investment that paid huge dividends in our society. A uniform benefit that makes public colleges more affordable would be a home run in terms of making our society more equitable and providing more opportunities to the next generation that will drive our country. That's different than forgiving loans, it's reducing the need for and size of loans in the first place.

Exactly - the issue is that students are taking out loans in amounts they have no business of doing so. If more were to say, forget this I am not going $100k in debt I will go to community college the first 2 years and then transfer (while working) or some other alternative. Demand for these expensive colleges would go down forcing them to lower their costs.

Or be smart about which college you choose. Many have very large endowments. So the initial price tag seems high - you apply and then come back with these scholarships to entice the better students. Also say you are a pretty good student - not top but good and solid - or have something unusual that a particular college is looking for.

You apply to a college that is "lower" than you abilities academically - they will throw money at you. You have another type of skill a college may want (my daughter applied to a college that was a "reach" school for her academically. She had alot of other things to offer including being MVP of her league in softball - it was division 3 so technically they cannot give athletic scholarships but they can give "talent" or "leadership" or some other type of scholarship - they threw money at her - their team was not so good. Toward the end they threw another $5k at her.

She ended up going elsewhere she felt was a good fit. But if you have something to offer a school - a school that has a strong endowment fund, it can be much cheaper than a public school.

I know another classmate of my daughter's she was number 2 in the graduating class - super smart as she was graduating 2 years ahead of her age. Looking to be a surgeon. Guidance kept pushing her to apply to high priced schools. She applied to a local public college and leaves at home - they gave her a full academic scholarship in their honors program. She is attending a school much lower than her academically abilities but she isn't paying a dime. The high school guidance thinks she is doing the wrong thing for herself selling herself short - but she will own nothing when she lives putting herself in a better position financially to attend medical school.

I think going a little below your academic abilities pays off huge financially.

ok, coastal rat and engineer, I agree with some things both of you say, disagree with others.

CR, I actually had to laugh at one point because omg, I just saw you set yourself up for the biggest "you just don't get it"

On one side, I do have to say that housing is a totally different ball game now.

I know that people live in all different environments, urban, suburban & rural. To be devils advocate here, where I live Austin, there is no Way decent houses won't set you back $300K for just a crappy starter home. In my zip code, 300K will buy you a 700 to 900 square foot condo with cheap fixtures, thin walls, and minimal insulation. But at least you'd be safe (relatively). If you need to buy a house for less, well, make friends with your crack deal neighbors.
The average home price...average....is $400K

If it weren't for the fact my husband collects 100% VA disability each month, and that also means are property taxes are waived, There is no way we could afford to stay in this house.
Which is exactly why I bought a house in Mexico. I cashed in a chunk of my retirement, bought the place (has to be paid in full) and I'll end up there with a higher quality of life than in the US, and I'll be able to actually live on my social security check. But I digress.

I too don't really see younger people living high on the hog, mostly because housing takes such a big chunk. What I observe is more of "it's only $5, it's only $3, I need 2 or 3 streaming services" etc. Also, the eating out. Good God, the eating out. Tapas bars, Shake Shack, coffee shops every 10 yards. A little ago I had to drive through downtown. It's hot here right now, but it is ridiculous to me how everyone, and I on purpose was observing, just had to be carrying, not a bottle of water, but a latte, a fancy tea, shakes or malts from P Terry's, an expensive brand of water. Not one person was carrying even just a can of soda. They are literally walking 2 block from wherever they were, to the office outside. It's only 93 degrees right now. You're not going to die. Sure, most of it was obviously from their lunch out, but criminy. Actually most drinks were almost full, so like they bought it to take back to work. You had to spend $3-5 on whatever you have? You don't have anything in the fridge at work.

Omg, I sound like such an old crank. I know I do. But honestly people.
Mmmmm....here I'm not so sure it's instant gratification so much as mindless spending. Again, a disconnect of "it's only $5" Not seeing how that adds up. Not seeing how it would make a long term difference in something really important to give up something you won't remember tomorrow.

I get it when you don't have much, sometimes you just need something special. I was in dire straits at one period in my life, and I definately remembered thinking "Oh F*ck it. I just want something nice (meaning like a food treat or something)" But not several times a week.

Engineer, I don't totally agree with what you say about income vs ability to support X amount of debt. It's related, but I think it's more about income vs amount of monthly payment. It looks like from your example a $100K dept (remember though, average debt is 38K) the payment would be approx $630/mo. Making $50K, your take home pay would be at least $3500 a month. So you're left with $2900. You could if you have a roommate, rent a 2 bedroom apt that's decent with your half being let's say $700/mo.
Would a single person be able to live in Austin for $2000 after rent and student loan? I think so. I know I'd be fine.

Again, I'm probably all wrong because what do I know.

Oh. Some things that hit me this morning driving around.

This 1.3 trillion dollar debt, and 44 million people with student loans.

First, is that dollar figure the sum of all the beginning balances of these 44 million people, or is it factoring in that some people are at the beginning, some at the end, and everywhere in between?

Also, of these 44 million people, how many of them, if asked, could actually say they are handling their debt ok? I mean, no one likes paying bills, but obviously 44 million are all not in crisis mode over their payment.

So if you take out the number of people that are fine, and others that say "I'm making it work, it's ok", how many are left?
Also, you'll need to subtract the dollar amount those people owe from that 1.3 trillion number.

Sorry if I'm being a buzzkill on the crisis train, but numbers can be made to say what you want them too.

On the other extreme, how many of the 44 million are simply crap money managers, and it wouldn't matter how much they owe or don't owe, they just are one of those people that you can't end up feeling bad for, because they truly make their own problems?

Gotta take them out too I suppose, and what they owe.

So you got those that are either fine or ok, the one's you just can't give credence to because they are honestly just idiots. Yeah I said it. Idiots.
How many are left, and what is the amount owed, by those who are really just having one hell of a time, despite their best efforts?

I have no idea. But it is to the tune of 44 million, or 1.3 trillion.

Those are the people that need to be addressed/approached. Need to ascertain what the roadblocks are, is there anything they can do, be taught, etc?

Yeah, I was thinking of that too.

Why are you spending 100K on education for a 50K job? Sure maybe it's a position that skyrockets in salary, like a medical degree, but still.

I mean, fit the cost to the realistic gain man.

Try the Boston area - even worse.

Of course it is difficult. So why did they incur it? Why did they not find a college (and don't tell me they are not out there) where they could get the degree they wanted for a lot less money? My second question would be that just because it is hard is not a reason to expect the government to forgive/pay off their debt.

I am all for pursuing ideas that would do so.

It seems this thread has been abandoned to us quaint totally oblivious BB's.

Which (and I'm saying this from my personal experience of whenever this subject comes up online, not trying to stereotype) is typical when the BB pushes back, in my case by asking specific questions.

If any other Mill would like to actually address, without resorting to a drive by canned response as to BB mental capacity, then repeating the same litany of horrors, of course without then answering questions about what they say, it would be appreciated.

Some statistics I have gleaned...

$1.3 trillion (that's with 12 zeros)
44 million people with loans
Average loan less than $40K

Questions, if anyone would like to step up to the plate.
I don't know is a totally acceptable answer.
It doesn't matter because (fill in the blank) is not an acceptable answer:

1. How many of these 44 million are either fine with their payments, or making it happen, in other words, ok?

2. How many are crap money managers, irresponsible, and would default on any debt?

3. Is this dollar amount what is currently owed on all loans, or are they the figures from the start of the loan, even if you're almost paid off?

I ask the above so I can understand the true current numbers, so I am not concentrating on people who are not in crisis.

4. How many times does a loan ususally chage hands during the course of the loan, or over an year, or some other measurable time?
4a. Related to that, do this changes ever involve interest rates being increased? If yes, by how much maximum?

For me, I care about 44 million people, where I don't know the seriousness of their ability to pay, in only the vaguest of ways.
I am much more interested in some as of now unknown figure of those in true dire conditions. I care in a more specific way about them.

I can't adjust my level any more until I know more about them.

Here is a good clear concise article about student loans changing hands what happens and why:

https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/student-loan-ranger/2015/11/18/a-guide-to-understanding-student-loan-servicer-changes

It makes me understand why some of these students may feel their loan has changed terms.

You might not realize that if you automatic withdrawals set up that these do not transfer over (resulting in missed payments, extra fees, etc.)

The monthly amount CAN change slightly - as as your new loan holder calculates your payoff timeframe. This change should only be a slight difference. The terms themselves such as interest rate and replayment plan. This may make some borrowers think the terms changed.

The big thing as the article states is to read all correspondence sent to you and make sure you understand it. If a loan is sold/transferred they need to give you all that information.

Yeah, it's as I suspected/figured. Auto payments go away, and you have to set up again. Solution seems pretty straight forward, and dare I say, common sense.
Besides keeping up with notifications, check your account once or twice a month. Set a calendar reminder on your phone.

I could definately see myself messing up the first time, not being aware that something changed, my auto payments stopped. But that would sure as hell be the last time.

Ok, let's talk about what's fair and what isn't.

You've stated your college age child attends a more expensive one, but she gets grants and scholarships to allow her to only take out "some" loans.

She has an apartment. Let's start there.

How much is rent?
How much do you pay in relation to her contribution?

How much is the heat?
How much do you pay in relation to her contribution?

How much is electricity?
How much do you pay in relation to her contribution?

Water? Cable? Garbage? Transportation? Food? Clothing? Those are the basics.

How about entertainment? Ok, she has a part time job, how much does she spend? Does she spurge on a latter once in awhile? Maybe pizza? A movie? A girl's night out?

You devoted a whole thread about the unfairness of storage costs for your kid so they wouldn't be inconvenienced to move their belongings to the place where they legally reside.

Here's the thing.

You spew all kinds of stuff about how college could be affordable to people who have no other resources available to them besides taking out high cost loans, then sling mud at them because you may, or may not have seen one of them eating out or getting a coffee.

So, I have to ask, what is your contribution to your child's education? And why is it you think that once your kid graduates, WON'T be facing the same plight?

First I never once stated anything about about anyone buying coffee or going out to eat...you are confusing me about someone elsr.

The storage unit was for my help so I didn't need to rent something bigger than my car. And we share it with other students to keep the cost low. My prior year experience was different at amother facility thus prompting the prompting the question as to fairness of raising the price one month after renting. Which has nothing to do with loans and if you should pay them.

My daughter did not get any grants. She received a couple of scholarships from the school ... one for academics and one for leadership/talent. She earned it through her hard work academically and due to all her other outside achievements .. community service, athletics, and other involvements. She was a better student and overall kid by far than I ever was in high school..she certainly deserved it. She also received a few smaller scholarships from organizations outside of the college that she had applied, wrote essays for...that were determined on a variety of reasons other than financial need.

She does not have an apartment she has on campus housing which is required unless you live near the school. Some of the scholarship money can cover these expenses as they are required to attend the school.

As parents we have put away monthly since she was a toddler money in a 529 plan. This combined with what we can pay our of pocket has helped her keep her loans to a minimum.

But that was our choice. If we didn't do this or were not in a position to I would advice her in a way to minimize her loans if we did not get the aid we would need. Similar to the fact I would not suggest she attend most of the other colleges that did not give her anywhere near the package she got at the school she ultimately went to.. there were only two other schools that resulted in her such a reasonable net package. This school was her favorate of three and she has thrived there.... making Deans List all semesters but her first, being promoted to a supervisor in her on campus job, being vice president of club basketball, and having an officer title in sustainable environment club.

I'm sorry if things have not worked out as well for you. But my daughter did not get there by being pampered. Academics does not come easily to her she works her butt off and has for everything she has got. She never complains about working harder than those it comes easily to..,she just keeps plugging away.

If things didn't work this way financially we would have advised differently . We have family members that took a different route because of this..,trade school, night school, community college and then transfer to a 4 year..you do what you need to do and what fits you.

Again, quit with the condescending bull.

You continue to slam students for taking out loans for tuition, books, rent, water, heating, electric, food, transportation, garbage, and entertainment, etc, which aren't paid by mommy and daddy.

You are not seeing how YOUR contribution affects not just your child but the whole of the student debt crisis. I'm not asking you to to feel bad, I'm asking you to understand MANY college students do NOT HAVE WHAT YOUR DAUGHTER HAS.

THAT'S the issue.

Yes, your child is pampered. Yes, it is extremely offensive to think she's not. You massively subsidize her education and call it un-subsidized. All the "we" talk is lip service to all the ones who go it alone. When I mean alone, those are the low to mid income student who have parents that either will not or cannot do what you do.

At least recognize how and why the student debt crisis isn't due to an extra latte or dinner out.

It's a massive failure on your part to flaunt how storage fees are exorbitant while other students work two jobs to stay in college.

And please quit referring to my education. I've earned my degree(s). It isn't me I'm concerned about. The next generation has issues. Wake up and smell the anguish.