College Loan Forgiveness

Reply Wed 26 Jun, 2019 10:50 am
As for being able to prepay on student loans, the answer is yes. My wife went back to school a few years back and we incurred a small amount of student loans (around $4,000 if I remember correctly.) When it came time to start paying on them, I picked an amount we were comfortable with and paid it monthly, even though it was more than I needed to pay. The extra did go against the principle and it was paid off more quickly with less interest than it otherwise would have been. Even if they had applied it to next month's payment, if I had continued paying what I wanted to pay, there would have come a time that I would have prepaid, if you will, the balance owed.
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Reply Wed 26 Jun, 2019 11:21 am
Comments like "how quaint" bring up the thought of "how dense" in my mind.

Agreed you don't need a college education to understand this - I, however, have worked in the finance field for over 25 years and have a BS (yeah it may be bullsh*t but it is a degree) in Economics and Finance as well as an MA in Economics of Money and Banking. So I do understand the basics of loans, repayments, and the ins and outs of how they work. So I am not "quaint" on my knowledge.

I do find it quaint that someone would think so.

I do honestly think the college costs need to be controlled. But not by giving adults an out on not paying what they agreed to. I am all for working with them to help them with a feasible payment plan that is fair - maybe a break on additional fees for following behind or assistance on budgeting. But giving them a bye for not paying for they agreed to - is not fair for those other college students who did pay their loans.
Reply Wed 26 Jun, 2019 01:18 pm
Perhaps if collages dident buy up 500 acres of prime farm land than build more structures than they need on its ground they might not need to charge 50000 dollars a year.
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Reply Wed 26 Jun, 2019 02:24 pm
Linkat wrote:

But giving them a bye for not paying for they agreed to - is not fair for those other college students who did pay their loans.

Absolutely. What kind of lawsuits will result from the fact that someone elses loan was forgiven , but not yours? What a crap storm. How far back are we supposed to go? What if your loan was that period plus 1 day?

I just got back from my lunch delivery gig, and thought alot about this thread while driving around. I hope tsar comes back to post because I'd like to both learn what I am missing, and get some feedback and other.

Things that ran through my mind:

To get this out up front, I do see where some parents have let their kids down in the sense of expectations. Unfortunatley, I think what this segment of parents have told their kids fed into this belief of "oh you BB's had it so good. One income, 2 cars, owned a home, etc etc." I found it does no good to point out "well, I don't know who you're talking about, it sure doesn't describe my household (or for that matter my parents, who were born in the 1920's) But apparantly there were enough of those one income/2cars/house type of people that makes every single BB at fault for every Mills financial straits.

Sarcasm alert for a moment...You know, it's not like BB's were hold this annual convention where we attended workshops in how to mess up the next generations life.

Unsarcastically...Do many Mills not realize that their children are going to say the exact same things about them? That some reason will be found that you just completely screwed their life? Like BB's didn't blame our Depression era parents for all the wrongs visited on us by life? This goes back to the dawn of man, and will continue with each generation in the future.

I really do cringe in sympathy when hear a Mill say (and these are words that were actually said to me once) "I was told by my professors at UT that I would have no problem getting a job, and I was going to be sought after and I would have a pick of postions." With that person, I was really torn between a tear coming to my eye for her, and snorting and saying "Are you kidding me? You believed that?"
Where in the world were this young womans parents to tell her how life really is?
Another time, this same young woman told me that "the way it's going to be" is that managers past a certain age (like old....50) were just going to have to turn their positions over to recent college graduates (well, after they get enough experience in the work force, like a year) and would now answer to them. Because....they know stuff because college.
I'll admit, this was the last conversation I ever had with her, because when she said all this I asked her "So your father is going to give his job up to someone about your age?"

Oh yeah, theory vs practice.
Oh no! she said shocked. Not someone like my father!
Oh....then like someone elses father. Rolling Eyes

The other main thing I thought of was related to this apparant lack of knowledge how loans, payments, give and take in your expenses works for many people.

Please note, I make every attempt to not put all people of a certain age in one group. I'm not a BB. I'm Chai. If I had children I never would have let them go into college, let alone graduate, thinking for a minute this was some kind of ticket to anything, and they would very strongly know what would be needed to pay back any money borrowed.

Just as any one person is not the Mill that is generalized in any way. The following is not addressed to any Mill that is literally living on beans and rice, and sleeping on a mattress on a floor with 3 roommates, or even 1 roommate.

This would be regarding just a normal Joe or Josephine, someone who has a job, even if it's not what you deserve money wise, is making their rent...like they aren't in danger of being out on the street in the near future, is eating, etc.

What exactly, for those people who have chronic worries about their student loan debt, would be the problem, if you don't have kids, to get a second job, or some kind of occassional gig? Or cut back when they go out with friends by drinking water instead of a beverage, getting an appetizer instead of a meal? eliminating one event that they would normally have gone to in a month, and putting that aside for the prinicipal on your debt?

You already buy all your clothes from consignment, or thrift stores? Well your drawers are full. Stop buying more for awhile.

I know it will be pointed out how naive that is, but I call bull on that. Within the last hour, I passed by at least 20 restaurants. Looking inside, or onto the outdoor seating part, every single person sitting in them, every single one, was under the age of 30. This is at 2 o'clock in the afternoon. Total people were well over a hundred. Yeah sure, people have to eat. But do your have to eat somewhere that costs so much? Were all of these people on that once a month splurge? Were they all ordering the cheapest thing, and shoving napkins in their bags to take home? Most importantly, would giving up one out of 3 times you would go out put you into some mental distress?

How many of those people I saw were under stress about student debt? In this city, I imagine quite a few. As some old codger, this just does not add up.

One might say "oh but why should I have to give something up, or take entire hours of my time away from what I want to do?"

Because you have a debt buddy.
Even if you were told by professors/parents/whoever that the world was going to beat a path to your door, it didn't happen. So there.

I'd say for a good 25% to 30% of the time I worked full time, I also did either part time, or gig work on top of that. Why? Because I wanted some stuff that I didn't want to take a long time to pay for. Because it was fun and you met new people and it kept me organized with my other time, because I had to be to keep it going.

Would you decide to take on some extra income and have it within the week? Maybe/probably not. But you consistently look for it until you find it, and you do it, because it will make your debt time signficantly shorter. The sooner the better.

Jeez, I'm an old senile crone, and I make anywhere (besides my lunch) gig, net, anywhere from $300-$600 a month for less than I'm sure 8 hours effort a month. Selling stuff I buy wholesale. For only that reason I wish I lived in a city like NY for example, where I could find lots of wholesalers.
Last year I mentored this young woman who is in college, working part time as a life guard at the pool I go to. While I treaded water, I taught her the ins and outs, and before you know it, she and her boyfriend where hitting it big on I think snapchart, taking advantage of his love of shopping and fashion, and her doing the business end.

How can a kid of 22, going to school full time, working part time, manage to get into this, but a 30 year old with no kids and a full time job can't deliver pizzas on the weekend, mow some lawns, pick up dog poop to lessen the burden of their future by years?

Where is this thinking ridiculous?

Reply Wed 26 Jun, 2019 03:39 pm
Love your thinking - I remember fresh out of college - most of us worked two jobs - I did not but I lived at home for a while (paid my mom some money but it wasn't much) and then moved in with a friend that had a rich daddy that bought her a condo - again I paid her rent but it was really low.

Anyone else had several roommates and a full and part time job after getting their 4 year degree - alot were bartenders which helped me so I could get a few free drinks when I went out at night.

Even now - we have made cut backs like you mention to help pay for my daughter's college. My daughter has a full time summer job and just got another part time job at target so she is working about 60 hours a week during the summer.

During school she has two jobs - of course not as much time - but enough so she has pocket change and can have fun while studying. I don't mind making cut backs to help her as she is a really good student (even better than she was in high school) - does mommy proud.

My other high schooler just got a part time job as well. In part because these crazy schools now have big trips for the students - (we were fortunate for her to get into a small private college prep school for her last two years of high school with a bit of a scholarship) - I told her if she is doing this expensive trip with her school she needs to earn the money - we aren't paying for extras.

She went out and got one.

If pushed - these younger people are more than capable of doing it. I think us parents and older folks are not helping them out by paying their way and letting them get out of their obligations - in the long run they will be better off learning these things.
Reply Wed 26 Jun, 2019 03:44 pm
And funny thing I was talking about to someone that happened when my kids were very young. My daughter was about 10 she wanted Hannah Montana concert tickets - I figured sure - kids show how hard would they be to get.

Damn things sold out immediately and on the second market they were hundreds of dollars. I showed my daughter the prices and she said could we get Disney on Ice tickets instead - even she knew it was a crazy price.

So I am listening to the radio station and a mom is complaining about how high these tickets were - the DJ said well don't buy them - the mom said and disappoint my child?! I am like what -- teaching moment explain the situation - I guess this is why some of these young adults are complaining about paying back these loans - they were never taught NO this is too expensive! See if there is an alternative or just not buy it.
Reply Wed 26 Jun, 2019 03:54 pm
tsarstepan wrote:

You really don't understand how student loans work. Many people DON'T TAKE OUT LOANS with these third party management systems like Navient. I got my loans through Sallie Mae (the government entity that gives out loans). These third party corps come in a buy up the loans and then they run the student on an infinite treadmill. I went to a public school in Massachusetts (over 20 years ago) and I'm still paying off the interest of my loans (@$12000).

Ok you took out a student loan over 20 years ago - so that is not much longer ago than me. These loans did not change that dramatically in the 5 years or so longer than when I had one - and I went to private college in Massachusetts - I had a National Direct Student loan and some other Federal Guaranteed Student loan - at least one if not both of mine were sold to a third party- I remember getting the notices. I think my loans were in the vicinity of $12 or $15k - I paid them off early. I did what others suggested here and when I got a raise or extra money I used that to pay down my student loans.

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Reply Wed 26 Jun, 2019 04:02 pm
You really have a white bread way of looking at things. Yea for YOUR kid, who has a built in support system, a roof over their head, clothes on their backs and food in their tummies.

The problem is, not everyone HAS that. And you've been rather condescending trying to "explain" to a grown adult how student loans work. That may or may not have been your intent, but you sound full of ******* ****.

Spare me your "knowledge" of ltv and rates. It doesn't mean a thing when you're holding down a full time job to pay rent, utilities, food, insurance AND trying to make college classes when your job absolutely refuses to budge on hours.

Sure, nobody gets anything for "free." But it sure would be nice not to be in hock for most of your adulthood paying off a student loan.
Reply Wed 26 Jun, 2019 04:27 pm
You mean, if you borrow money, you're against paying it back? That's what it really comes down to.
Reply Wed 26 Jun, 2019 04:50 pm
No, that's not what it comes down to.

College is more expensive than it's ever been, and the 5 reasons why suggest it's only going to get worse
Hillary Hoffower 8h

It's a vicious cycle of supply and demand.

College tuition and student-loan debt are higher than ever.

College is expensive for many reasons, including a surge in demand, an increase in financial aid, a lack of state funding, a need for more faculty members and money to pay them, and ballooning student services.
The cost of college has made a degree less advantageous than it was 10 years ago, one expert said.

Josh Kirdy knows how to hustle.

When he's not working full time as an assistant store manager at Universal Orlando, the 26-year-old is on the prowl for side work, landing stints walking dogs and putting in part-time hours at a local mall retailer.

He developed this juggling act to put extra payments toward his $37,000 student-loan debt.

"I'm happy with my life today and with the education I received, but it's unfortunate that I'll be paying for it for another seven years at least," Kirdy, who attended a four-year public university, told Business Insider. He's set to pay roughly $300 a month in student-loan repayments until he's 35.

"There are many factors behind the cost of college, and some people have stressed one or another," Richard Vedder, an author and distinguished professor of economics emeritus at Ohio University, told Business Insider.

But the ultimate driver of cost, Vedder said, is the sheer number of people vying for a college education. Higher enrollment has brought an expansion of financial-aid programs, a need to increase budgets for faculty pay and on-campus student services, and a decline in financial support from state governments.

College tuition has more than doubled since the 1980s

Kirdy is just one of the more than 45 million Americans with student-loan debt and contributing to a whopping national total of $1.5 trillion, according to Student Loan Hero. The average student debt per graduate who took out loans is higher than ever, at $29,800.


These stats are especially troubling considering their effects on people's long-term goals. Millennials are facing unique financial struggles previous generations weren't, like having to save longer for increased housing costs, something that hasn't been helped by the burden of student-loan debt.

average student loan debt per college graduate map

Graduates in the Northeast have more debt on average, while those in the Southwest had the least on average. Andy Kiersz/Business Insider
"I feel like buying a house is a total pipe dream at this point in my life, but I'm tightening my belt as much as possible to save for a down payment right now," a water-resources engineer who graduated from a public university with roughly $25,000 in debt told Business Insider.

Four years later, she owes just under $19,000. Her $300 payments are set on autopay, which reduces her interest by 2.5% a month. It's more than her $260 income-driven payment plan requires, but she'll pay it down quicker this way.

"Thankfully, I have USAA, who has a great first-time-homebuyer program, so I only need a 3% down payment to get started," she said. "But without that, I would be trapped in a rent cycle until a second income magically appears in my life."

Boone Porcher, who owes $32,645 after five years at a public university, started paying double his minimum payment two years after graduating so he could pay off his debt in five years.

"I started to think more about their impact when evaluating my long-term planning, and I made the decision that I wanted the debt gone entirely ASAP," Porcher, a 26-year-old supply-chain consultant, told Business Insider. "Personally, I don't feel comfortable taking a loan on a house while having student loans."

A recent Student Loan Hero report found that while wages have increased by 67% since 1970, college tuition has increased at a faster rate, continuing to deliver a fair amount of sticker shock.

Roxy Novo told Business Insider her $60,000 student-loan debt from attending a private college had slowed down her life plans. The 22-year-old commutes two hours every day from New Jersey to her job as a studio artist fellow in New York City because her $500 monthly loan payment is equivalent to a portion of what it would cost to rent an apartment in the city, she said.

"I definitely cannot consider moving closer until I get a higher-paying job and get a good chunk of my debt paid," Novo said. "I'm trying to do the responsible thing and eliminate loans before considering any expensive, fun things, but it can be really hard when your friends are out traveling the world and moving to the city and you're swimming in debt."

College tuition was more affordable for older generations, Student Loan Hero reported, citing figures from the College Board: From the late 1980s to 2018, the cost of an undergraduate degree has risen by 213% at public schools and 129% at private schools, adjusting for inflation.


average college tuition 1987 2018 chart

The annual cost of college before fees and room and board. Shayanne Gal/Business Insider

From the 2016-17 to the 2017-18 school year, the average cost of tuition and fees increased by more than 3% at private and public colleges, according to the College Board's "Trends in College Pricing 2017" report. At a four-year nonprofit private institution, tuition and room and board is $46,950, on average. Four-year public colleges charge an average of $20,770 a year for tuition, fees, and room and board. For out-of-state students, the total goes up to $36,420.

And then there are costs beyond tuition, like living expenses.

"One of the main reasons why I accrued so much debt was because my parents didn't save any money for me to go to college and they couldn't afford to contribute to the cause, so I used student loans not only to pay tuition but also to cover living expenses that my part-time job, which paid $8 per hour, couldn't cover," Kirdy said.

Everyone wants to go to college

"The demand for higher education has risen dramatically since 1985," Vedder said. "Once demand goes up and nothing else happens, that will raise prices."

According to the Department of Education, US colleges expected a total of 20.4 million students in fall 2017, about 5.1 million more than in fall 2000.

"The rewards for college have expanded and grown from 1985 to a little after 2000 and sort of leveled off in the past decade," Vedder said.


College enrollment is higher than ever.

The increase in the student population indicates that the advantages college offers outweigh its overwhelming costs.

"There's a fear of failure if you didn't have a postsecondary education," Vedder said.

And yet, he said, the "advantage of a degree today is less than it was 10 years ago, because of the rising cost."

"The return on investment has fallen," he added, "and 40% of kids don't graduate within six years."

Still, it's a vicious cycle of supply and demand. The more students who want to attend college, the more the cost of college increases, and the more students borrow money.

From 2000 to 2012, the percentage of students who took out student loans jumped to 60% from about 50%, according to a report by the American Academy of Arts & Sciences. The report also found that they began borrowing more money too — the median cumulative loan amount rose to $20,400 from $16,500 in that time.

Theories suggest financial aid causes tuition increases
More student borrowers might partly explain why government financial-aid programs have grown enormously — but that's also causing tuition increases, according to Vedder.

In 1970, financial-aid programs "were almost nonexistent," he said. "Generally, middle-income people didn't get money from the federal government; the large majority of students did not."

In 1978, Congress passed a bill known as the Middle Income Student Assistance Act. This made all undergraduates regardless of income class eligible for subsidized loans and middle-income students eligible for Pell Grants, according to NASPA, Student Affairs Administrators in Higher Education. More and more students started applying for financial aid, Vedder said.

"Knowing that students will get this financial-aid money, the university raises fees and takes advantage to capture that themselves," Vedder explained, referring to an idea known as the Bennett hypothesis.

Named for a former education secretary who believed that more government aid for students led directly to college cost increases, the hypothesis is an ongoing topic of political debate. But it has some vertical support in Vedder's eyes. Citing a statistic from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, Vedder said that for every new dollar of federal student aid, tuition is raised by 65 cents.

Though tuition rose in 1978, so did people's incomes, making the burden of college less than it was in the 1940s, Vedder explained. But between 1978 and 2015, the burden of college began to rise again as tuition fees doubled and economic growth slowed.

State funding can't keep up with enrollment
Terry Hartle, a senior vice president of the American Council on Education, boils down the increasing cost of college to this: Many state governments have cut operating support for higher education, for at least a generation, and let colleges replace the lost revenue with tuition hikes.

"States provide less, and students and parents pay more," Hartle told Business Insider. "Studies have shown that when state support is level or increasing, tuition is flat. But when state support declines, tuition goes up. Roughly 80% of America's students attend public colleges, so it's not an exaggeration to say that the biggest determinate of the price they will pay for their education is the budgetary decisions made by state governments."

The College Board's report underscores Hartle's theory. It found that prices at public colleges and universities rise faster when government funding per student sees little growth or is slowing down. In the 2015-16 school year, appropriations — money given to a school by the government — per full-time enrolled student were 11% lower than 10 years before, when adjusted for inflation.

"For public institutions, state appropriations make up a significant portion of the college's revenue, and in recent years, the state appropriations have not been able to keep pace with enrollment," Jennifer Ma, a senior policy research scientist at the College Board, told Business Insider.

Vedder, however, doesn't think state funding cuts are the main culprit, at least at private schools.

"The total number of state dollars has gone up a little, but enrollments have risen dramatically, so on a per-student basis they're getting less money," he said. "It's a factor but not dominant, because private schools don't get money from the state."

Colleges need to pay more professors

Just as it costs money to learn, it costs money to pay teachers. Higher education is a labor-intensive industry, and productivity gains come slowly, Hartle said.

"The primary mechanism for delivering higher education at most institutions are highly educated people," he said. "Acquiring and recruiting highly educated faculty and staff costs money, especially in jobs with significant demand outside academia."

Hartle said the sorts of things that could lower these costs — such as larger classes, more adjunct faculty and fewer full-time professors, shorter hours, and fewer books in the library — were immensely unpopular with students, parents, and the public.

Professor lecture

"Colleges spend much of their money on staff and compensation, so they have been experiencing an increasing cost of health insurance and other benefits," Ma said, adding that while university tuition allocations vary by institution, most use a large percentage of tuition to pay professors' salaries.

Vedder believes the percentage of university budgets used for instruction has fallen over the past 50 years.

"A typical university around 1970 would have allocated 40% directly for instruction, mostly professor salaries," he said. "Nowadays, it's more like 30%."

This decline in money for teachers and classes, in addition to state funding cuts, may help explain why the number of part-time faculty members has increased over time, to about 51% of total faculty in 2011 from 30% in 1975, according to research compiled by the American Association of University Professors.

With more part-time faculty members, universities can dole out lower wages and benefits, saving money for noninstructional full-time roles and a smaller group of tenured faculty, whom they can try to attract with higher salaries.

Student services, like counseling and healthcare, are growing
Many of these noninstructional roles are for student services, another increasing cost in campus budgets. Services such as academic support, personal counseling, and healthcare have been on the rise, Hartle said.

"These services are always added because of student needs, and most schools, once they begin to offer them, are very reluctant to take them away," he said, adding that there's also been a reallocation from instruction to administration expenses — known as institutional support — and research.

Vedder says there has been an explosion in the number of non-teaching personnel on campus, with several administrators at top universities making six-figure salaries with fringe benefits and secretarial support. He said about two-thirds of university budgets had nothing to do with teaching but instead go toward things like advocates, dormitories, and facilities.

Is the cost of college worth it?

The irony in the demand for a degree is palpable — by contributing to an increase in tuition, it has perhaps also made the college degree less advantageous over time.

To illustrate the diminishing value of a college degree, Vedder cited figures from the New York Fed, saying that one-third of college graduates are underemployed and 13% are in a low-paying job.

So is the cost of college worth it? It depends who you ask and how you measure the value of a degree.

college graduates

"Honestly, I don't have a lot of job satisfaction, and I don't plan on being an engineer for the rest of my life," the water-resources engineer said. "In terms of getting me a job that pays well, maybe ... In terms of overall happiness, probably not."

Novo said loans were her only option for her first-choice school. A few schools offered scholarship money, but she said she felt they wouldn't help her reach her goals.

"The debt is definitely worth it," she said. "I picked my college with the hope that it would get me my first job and that it would be in my field and in NYC. I happily have a job with all those requests."

For Porcher, the regret isn't obtaining a college degree, but the lack of planning that put him over $32,000 in debt.

"Looking back, I wish I had worked for a year or two and saved up, or did half college, half work," he said. "But my job now wouldn't be possible without my degree. I'm actually the highest-ranking person without a master's or Ph.D. If I didn't have a good job, this would be an enormous burden."

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Reply Wed 26 Jun, 2019 05:36 pm
DeVos Sued for Stalling Forgiveness of Student Loan Debt

SAN FRANCISCO (CN) – The U.S. Education Department’s refusal to process borrower defense claims has left more than 160,000 students “in limbo,” damaged their credit and permanently delayed their accumulation of wealth, student borrowers claim in a class action filed Tuesday.

“The department’s failure to properly oversee the for-profit college industry on the front end, and its refusal to re-mediate the fraud that occurred on its watch, has eliminated any pretense that the government will protect these students,” the students say in their 62-page federal complaint.

Enacted in 2015 by the Obama administration, the borrower defense rule gave students who attended predatory for-profit colleges an avenue to have their loan debt forgiven. The rule was enacted as the government started cracking down on for-profit schools including ITT Technical Institute, Corinthian Colleges and Devry University, which were investigated for deceiving students about the value of their educational programs.

In the six months before President Donald Trump took office in January 2017, the Education Department cancelled the loan debt of approximately 28,000 students who filed borrower defense claims.

After Trump’s inauguration on Jan. 20, 2017, the Education Department announced it was taking a “pause” in processing those claims in order to “re-evaluate” the Obama-era policies.

According to the lawsuit filed Tuesday, that “pause” has become a “policy of inaction and obfuscation” intended to prevent defrauded students from obtaining debt forgiveness as required under the law.

There were 158,110 borrower defense claims pending at the end of 2018, according to a quarterly Education Department report cited in the complaint.

Education Secretary Betsy DeVos has criticized the borrower defense rule, complaining at a 2017 Republican leadership conference in her home state of Michigan that a student merely had to “raise his or her hands to be entitled to so-called free money” under prior administration’s rule.

The student borrowers claim in their lawsuit that DeVos staffed the Education Department with high-ranking officials who worked for or had connections to the for-profit college industry.

Meanwhile, the borrowers say their loans continue to accrue interest. Some say they were denied jobs due to bad credit caused by their loan debt.

“This credit harm perversely prevents some students from attaining even entry-level employment, locking them into a negative cycle of financial insecurity,” they say in their complaint.

The loan debt can also block borrowers from buying a home or saving for retirement, both factors that will permanently delay their accumulation of wealth even if the department eventually grants their requests to cancel the student loan debt, according to the lawsuit.

“The department’s refusal to adjudicate borrower defenses leaves borrowers with a lack of faith that their government works for them,” the students say.

They claim the Education Department has unreasonably delayed processing borrower defense claims and adopted a de facto policy not to grant borrower defense claims in violation of the Administrative Procedure Act.

The plaintiffs seek a court order directing the Education Department to stop collecting on loans for which students have filed borrower defense claims and to issue decisions on all pending borrower defense applications.

The proposed nationwide class of student borrowers is represented by Eileen Connor of Housing and Economic Rights Advocates in Oakland, California.

In a statement, U.S. Department of Education press secretary Liz Hill said the department is ready to finalize borrower defense claims and would do so immediately – except for the bombardment of lawsuits.

“The only thing stopping the department from finalizing thousands of these claims is the constant stream of litigation brought by ideological, so-called student advocate special interests,” Hill said in an emailed statement. “The department was resolving claims before the injunction and continues to adjudicate claims as quickly as it can. Sadly, for the affected students, we can’t take final action because of the pending litigation.”

Hill also blamed the backlog in claims on the Obama administration, which “had put in place no real process for reviewing claims.”

In September 2018, a federal judge in Washington blocked the Education Department from dismantling the Obama-era rule intended to protect student-loan borrowers from predatory lending practices.

Another federal judge last year also ordered the Education Department to stop collecting on loans for students defrauded by the now-defunct Corinthian Colleges, but she refused to wipe out loan debt for those students. That ruling is currently under appeal.

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Reply Wed 26 Jun, 2019 06:08 pm
neptuneblue wrote:

And you've been rather condescending trying to "explain" to a grown adult how student loans work. That may or may not have been your intent, but you sound full of ******* ****.

Well, tsar has tried to explain to us several times that we BB's don't know how it all works, and that we're quaint for thinking we do....so why aren't you also addressing that to him?

Anyway, what about people like me who didn't have a good support system?

I don't know your age neptune, so I won't put you in any group.

I guess the next word will have to be "however"....However, do you, or anyone, somehow think that people haven't had to make these compromises, decisions before? In the case you presented a case of working full time, can't find college classes around work. Well there are some hard decisions that have to be made. Off the top of my head....and what I would personally do....

Figure out if the reason you're going to college when you're already working at a full time job is really worth it over the course of your life.

Me for example....I was at one point working full time, and going for an additional degree, with the intent of switching to that area after getting it. At that particular moment maybe 1.5 more years of part time college at night. The school I went to was fully acredited in the degree I was pursuing, with them telling me it would transfer to any other college.
I was about 31, 32, something like that at the time.
For reasons too long to go into here, I moved from where I was back to Austin. It was a necessary move, just take it at that.
It was when I applied to UT that I discovered that regardless of the accreditation of the other school, UT enjoys such prestige it just said Nope, you'll have to start over again....and go to school full time. (please don't ask me to explain all this, it was a really long time ago) So I searched around for other colleges near enough, and kept running into road block after road block. Finally I sat down and figured out under multiple scenerios how much this degree was going to mean to me financially, and emotionally.

I figured out the age at which I would get the degree (even if it could have been in the expected original 1.5 years of part time), my anticipated retirement age, the time it could take me to find a good job in the field etc. No matter how I worked it out, the additional money I would make every year for the rest of my working life, dollar wise, it made no sense to continue.
Originally I did not pursue this degree for the extra money primarily, I just loved the field. I knew how long it was to take, and was happy to do it.
But the thought of starting over 3/4's of the way through to my goal, going over the same material, but with having to do the work over, vs. the anticipated career really not making all that much more, considering the extra school cost...I decided it just wasn't worth it.
Believe me, it was not a choice I made lightly. It was hard.
The funny thing is, I ended up, by the time I stopped working, 7 to 10 years before most peoples retirement age, I was making, just from my regular full time job, more than I would have made if I'd gotten my degree. A lot more considering I cut out the education expense. I'm still not at the traditional retirement age, so if I had continued to work, I would be way ahead of the game money wise.
Satisfaction wise? I was just as happy with what I did, as I would have been with what I was considering changing to. I'm a practical person, and I make my own happiness.
From where I am looking from right now, no regrets.

An alternate solution, if you definately want that degree, is to look for other work that will work around your classes. Very true, you can't have things both ways. You make your choice.
You maybe stop school for the time, and use that time to seek employment that will meet your needs. If it isn't enough to pay your living expenses plus every bit of your college expenses, you work until you save enough to cover that shortfall over how ever long the degree will take.

Here's what I would personally do...You maybe stop school and keep the job that paid all your expenses, plus apparantly your college expenses. Then you save enough to cover the short fall over the time it would take to cover the degree if you were paid less at another job. You can accelerate that savings by using the time you would have been in class by taking a 2nd job. Then you look for your ideally scheduled, but perhaps lower paying job while you continue to work the higher paying one. Only then, when you find and start that ideal job, and become secure in it, do you go back to school, with all the extra money you'll need to live on to finish your degree/pay for school.

You can save a lot over just a year. Maybe enough to make it happen. Run the numbers.

If it is worth it for you, for whatever reason to get that degree, there's no sense in knocking your head againt the wall with an entity that won't budge. Instead, navigate your fast little skiff around that slow moving, plodding tanker ship.

That analogy was one I was taught when learning to buy and sell my own stocks. Where I did quite well thank you. It was an interesting little hobby, and definately came out ahead. So far ahead, I got to the point where I felt like "I've made enough, I'm gonna do something else for fun"

The stock market is some huge air craft carrier, barge, tanker, that can't turn too fast or it will capsize, meaning crash the economy. You can see though where it's trying to turn. Little old me, in my little fast 50 horsepower boat can run rings around that big sucker, shadowing its every turn, and getting out when I see it start to move.

To me, that can be applied to most things in life.

Sure, it would be nice not to be in hock for anything the rest of your life. That's why you do things to save, or make extra money to pay for them. That's what not getting anything for free means. You don't get what you want, exactly when you want it. Sometimes temporarily abandoning something gives you the tools to conquer it later on.

Reply Wed 26 Jun, 2019 06:21 pm
I'll let Tsar speak for themself, given the perimeters of the discussion.

However, just saying "pay the damn bill" isn't an answer either. There are many mitigating factors of why the student debt is as high as it is. It isn't as simple as mommy and daddy subsidizing housing costs, food costs, even storage bill costs so lil missy doesn't have to move things back from her college apartment, which, by the way, mommy and daddy PAY for, all the while criticizing others who lack the means to do so.

It's very arrogant.

Reply Wed 26 Jun, 2019 06:26 pm
I admire that Kirdy for taking his foot in hand and getting extra work to pay off his debt.

It's gonna take 7 years? So what?

You're gonna be 7 years older either way.

I dunno, maybe this whole "take a 2nd job/gig" is a turnoff for some.

I don't know what the big deal is. You take even some low paying job for a few hours a week, you end up meeting interesting people, you either get to interact with other people, or get to be alone with your own thoughts while getting a job done, and before you know it, either your shift is over and you treat yourself to a grand slam breakfast on the way home, or you realize a few months or years have gone by with much less debt and a bunch of grand slams or ice cream sundaes under your belt, literally.

I was I think in my late 20's. Wanted something. For, I dunno a year, year and a half, worked 4 hours on Saturday afternoon, 5 hours on a Sunday afternoon, in a call center. I didn't have a boyfriend at the time, but for some reason, that was the year or year and a half of my life where I had the most dates in my life. So I know I wasn't missing out on social life. I still slept in on weekends, went to a job that didn't tax me in any way, went on a date, went back to work. There was a bonus system, and I always earned enough to take half of it and buy myself a nice dinner out on Sunday evening, and put the other half in my mad money envelope. The regular earnings not only paid off that thing I wanted, but quite a bit more.

I look back at that time as one of the most relaxed fun time of my 20's.

Reply Wed 26 Jun, 2019 06:39 pm
You know my bonus system?

Not getting shot.

So fun...

Taking 2nd job? Survival.

Tell me how is this really supposed to go for the MILLIONS of youngsters facing poverty and how to escape their fate.

Fun, they say. I just want to live til tomorrow.

Go to college, they say. Defer the payment, they say. Until the day you die, they mean.

And they actually DO mean that.
Reply Wed 26 Jun, 2019 06:40 pm
neptuneblue wrote:

However, just saying "pay the damn bill" isn't an answer either. There are many mitigating factors of why the student debt is as high as it is. It isn't as simple as mommy and daddy subsidizing housing costs, food costs, even storage bill costs so lil missy doesn't have to move things back from her college apartment, which, by the way, mommy and daddy PAY for, all the while criticizing others who lack the means to do so.

It's very arrogant.

I've never said "just pay the damn bill" No one has.
I for one didn't have mommy or daddy subsidize anything.

What I said was take a 2nd job, don't spend money on something, do both, and take the money earned or saved and pay the bill.

Me? I can't bleed for the world. I can do whatever I need to, and make the best of, paying my debts.

I think the disconnect between me personally and this general anger at this economy is that while some spend their time reading and complaining about what is read, talking in this big terms of society, culture, everyone's collective debt, I think to myself that I can control my own corner of it.

You have anger at people like "lil missy" and her storage unit, mommy and daddy, her off campus apartment and more.

I really can't suss out, reading and re-reading what exactly I'm supposed to respond to....

lil missy?
lil missy's parents?
lacking means?

You use big words, like "mitigating" and "subsidizing" when the reality is I can't afford to do that yet. I will if I take time to get a plan, and make decisions. It might just take longer, a lot longer than you would like, to obtain your goal.

What are these mitigating factors? No, I'm not stupid. I would like to honestly hear you list some that you feel are the most important.

0 Replies
Reply Wed 26 Jun, 2019 06:49 pm
neptuneblue wrote:

You know my bonus system?

Not getting shot.

So fun...

Taking 2nd job? Survival.

Tell me how is this really supposed to go for the MILLIONS of youngsters facing poverty and how to escape their fate.

Fun, they say. I just want to live til tomorrow.

Go to college, they say. Defer the payment, they say. Until the day you die, they mean.

And they actually DO mean that.

I'm going to need a lot of specific information about you, from you, to even begin to address what you just said.

Where do you live where you have a good chance of getting shot at?
Are you living in poverty at the moment?
Why are you deflecting what you are personally going through, trying to obtain in life, to the millions of others who are not you? You can't fix millions of others, until you fix yourself.
What is going to happen to you right now that you truly feel you are not going to live until tomorrow. Please don't answer vaguely with "crime"
Who are the "they" in "they say"? It certainly wasn't me.
Why are you listening to "them" if they are wrong?

I don't want to hear from you about the millions of people you don't know.
I'd like to hear about you.

What's going on with you neptune?

Not being sappy, but sometimes people not connected to you (like me) say something that promotes an alternative idea.

I'm not going to engage in your anger. If you don't want to talk/answer my questions, fine by me.

Reply Wed 26 Jun, 2019 07:06 pm
You are so missing the point.

FAFSA only generates $4,500 of subsidized loans for incoming freshman, regardless of tuition. ($5,500 for sophomores, $6,500 for juniors and seniors in a higher education program.

The rest of it is student grants, un-subsidized loans and parental contributions. Let's just say your family contribution is $4,000. That means an incoming freshman gets a Stafford Loan for $4,500, parental contribution for $4,000 and the rest is outstanding debt.

A student gets a job for the rest. Let's say a part time job, usually at minimum wage at McDonald's (here $7.80) for 10-15 hrs a week.

Let's do the math, $7.80 x 10 hrs a week is $78.00 minus taxes. Still not enough to make a dent into anything, let alone living expenses.

Again, tell me how poverty stricken young adults afford to go to college to NOT continue working a minimum wage job.
Reply Wed 26 Jun, 2019 07:15 pm
neptuneblue wrote:

I'll let Tsar speak for themself, given the perimeters of the discussion.

No, no wait.....you didn't get what I said.

You said people (forget who, doesn't matter) were condescending because there explained how something worked.

tsar (not trying to put him on the spot) also said something negative, calling someone "quaint" and that we didn't know what was going on?

So, why aren't you calling out someone who said people didn't know what was going on?
Why are you only doing that to someone who is explaining something?
Would you say that to a college professor who was talking about something you already knew personally, or would you think "This isn't necessary for me, but it can help someone else who doesn't know this"

Why are you thinking that everyone knows how various loans work, because apparantly you do?
I think it very apparant many people with all kinds of debt, student, mortgage, credit card etc. absolutely don't know how it works.

In fact, just last month I was talking to a young man. Somehow it came up where he was complaining that he had charged a few shirts at Target, with a Target credit card he had gotten a few months back. I don't know, let's say he spent 50 or 60. He was expressing exasperation that he finally, after a few months made that final payment of $10 on the card, and that he had paid a lot more for the shirts that the original purchase price.

It turns out that he had thought you were only allowed to make the minimum payments, which were $10. At first he didn't believe me when I told him that he could have paid it off all at once.

So please don't assume it was condescending of someone to give an explanation, because there are a lot of people who just don't know how a lot of things work.
Reply Wed 26 Jun, 2019 07:31 pm
Tsar said he and his wife sought a continuing education subsidy for his wife. I'm sure they thought about the ins and outs for them to pursue that path.

Linkat wrote:
but we discussed with her living at home afterwards getting a higher paid job for a couple of years while getting her certificate or masters which will put her in a position to get her dream job that also supplies her with enough money to pay loans and support herself.

Many people do not have that option, to live at home, being subsidized every laundry load, toast popping or six-pack beer money that mommy throws her way.

Linkat wrote:
It is your responsibility to read the terms of the loan agreement so you understand what is able to change and what is not. It is called being a responsible adult. If you do not understand the terms of the agreement then you do not sign.

Easy for some one who IS subsidized to say. The rest of us, not so much.

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