They're Finally Doing It...And It's About Time

Really? You feel this because we've made great progress in catching OBL, who is the enemy?

Cycloptichorn

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don't forget massoui. He's high on the list to.

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Noone is 'high on the list' except OBL.

Everyone else is replacable.

Cycloptichorn

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Joe Nation wrote:

Quote:
I know you are concerned about abuse, but has there been any abuse? Have there been any reports of abuse? Have people disappeared off the streets never to be seen again?

Um.... it's been in all the papers. People who somehow end up in Egypt or Syria or Jordan after being arrested in the United States and those people are just the ones we KNOW about. What's to prevent anyone disappeared from staying disappeared? For three years the prisoners at Guantanamo were not identified to any outside person, not to a court, not to a lawyer, not even to the military authorities holding them.

Joe(paging Mr. Kafka, Mr. Kafka, you have a message.)Nation

Have any of these people been US citizens? I don't believe they have and if they are not US citizens then I could careless what happens to them or where they are sent. As long as US citizens are treated properly that is all I care about. I don't believe non-US citizens should have the full protections of the Constitution.

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Baldimo wrote:

Joe Nation wrote:
Quote:
I know you are concerned about abuse, but has there been any abuse? Have there been any reports of abuse? Have people disappeared off the streets never to be seen again?

Um.... it's been in all the papers. People who somehow end up in Egypt or Syria or Jordan after being arrested in the United States and those people are just the ones we KNOW about. What's to prevent anyone disappeared from staying disappeared? For three years the prisoners at Guantanamo were not identified to any outside person, not to a court, not to a lawyer, not even to the military authorities holding them.

Joe(paging Mr. Kafka, Mr. Kafka, you have a message.)Nation

Have any of these people been US citizens? I don't believe they have and if they are not US citizens then I could careless what happens to them or where they are sent. As long as US citizens are treated properly that is all I care about. I don't believe non-US citizens should have the full protections of the Constitution.

You're a prince, a global f**king prince, a man of peace, a good an godly man, you are dripping with the milk of human kindness. I hope you get to kill a lot of people if you ever really do get to go overseas.
Hats off to you my friend you make America proud, you favoirite son you. Very Happy

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blueveinedthrobber wrote:

Baldimo wrote:
Joe Nation wrote:
Quote:
I know you are concerned about abuse, but has there been any abuse? Have there been any reports of abuse? Have people disappeared off the streets never to be seen again?

Um.... it's been in all the papers. People who somehow end up in Egypt or Syria or Jordan after being arrested in the United States and those people are just the ones we KNOW about. What's to prevent anyone disappeared from staying disappeared? For three years the prisoners at Guantanamo were not identified to any outside person, not to a court, not to a lawyer, not even to the military authorities holding them.

Joe(paging Mr. Kafka, Mr. Kafka, you have a message.)Nation

Have any of these people been US citizens? I don't believe they have and if they are not US citizens then I could careless what happens to them or where they are sent. As long as US citizens are treated properly that is all I care about. I don't believe non-US citizens should have the full protections of the Constitution.

You're a prince, a global f**king prince, a man of peace, a good an godly man, you are dripping with the milk of human kindness. I hope you get to kill a lot of people if you ever really do get to go overseas.
Hats off to you my friend you make America proud, you favoirite son you.

Thank you! Very Happy

Now do you have a real response or just petty comments?

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My response pales into oblivion on the petty scale compared to your statement I was responding to. I'm flattered to be even considered petty compared to it.

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blueveinedthrobber wrote:

My response pales into oblivion on the petty scale compared to your statement I was responding to. I'm flattered to be even considered petty compared to it.

I was taking place in the debate you weren't. How was my comment petty.

Don't you have an iceberg to sit on somewhere. Now that was a petty comment with no relevence to the thread.

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Baldimo, I have to exercise great restraint in commenting on your post, because if I said what I really feel about you, I would certainly be in violation of the TOS and risk being banned from this otherwise enjoyable board. So I will stifle my urge to say what I think. It's difficult, but I will try.

It is not the terrorists that are a real threat to America. It is people like you that give America-haters their justification for considering us worthy targets. You validate their hate. To say that you don't care about any human beings who are not US citizens is beneath contempt. It is so vile that words fail me. That you would say this in all sincerity is frightening. No wonder they want to bomb us. They think that we all think like you. Thank God this is not true. The problem is to convince the rest of the world that this is not true.

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Merry Andrew wrote:

Baldimo, I have to exercise great restraint in commenting on your post, because if I said what I really feel about you, I would certainly be in violation of the TOS and risk being banned from this otherwise enjoyable board. So I will stifle my urge to say what I think. It's difficult, but I will try.

It is not the terrorists that are a real threat to America. It is people like you that give America-haters their justification for considering us worthy targets. You validate their hate. To say that you don't care about any human beings who are not US citizens is beneath contempt. It is so vile that words fail me. That you would say this in all sincerity is frightening. No wonder they want to bomb us. They think that we all think like you. Thank God this is not true. The problem is to convince the rest of the world that this is not true.

Why should the United States Constitution protect those that are not American citizens? Have they done anything to further our nation? Have they shown any kind of loyalty to the US? I don't care where you come from, but if you plan on living here and would like the full protection then become a citizen and all will be good.

I am an American citizen and my loyalty is to my fellow citizens first and foremost. All others come second. I hate to be harsh, but it is my fellow citizens who are going to look out for me and the other way around.

Face the facts, when the **** hits the fan no other country is going to have our backs and we are all we are going to have.

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Just one quote, Baldimo, from a document you claim to support.

We hold these truths to be self evident: that all men are created equal."

All men. Not all American citizens. Not all white men. Not all those who are on my side. All men.

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Quote:

They also have pushed for the administrative subpoena power, which they say prosecutors already are using in health care fraud and other criminal cases...

"The Department of Justice appreciates that the Senate Intelligence Committee has signaled their intention to support provisions that enhance law enforcement's ability to combat terrorism effectively," Madden said.

Baldimo - How many foreigners do you think are over here committing health care fraud?

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[quote="Baldimo Why should the United States Constitution protect those that are not American citizens? Have they done anything to further our nation? Have they shown any kind of loyalty to the US? I don't care where you come from, but if you plan on living here and would like the full protection then become a citizen and all will be good.

I am an American citizen and my loyalty is to my fellow citizens first and foremost. All others come second. I hate to be harsh, but it is my fellow citizens who are going to look out for me and the other way around.

Face the facts, when the **** hits the fan no other country is going to have our backs and we are all we are going to have.[/quote]

Sort of goes against that "Coalition of the willing thing you drooled over because bush said it doesn't it? Laughing

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I have no doubt that should our government end up being the "bad guy" Baldimo won't have my back, Bears, or any other citizen's unless they can show GOP papers.

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Baldimo wrote:

Why should the United States Constitution protect those that are not American citizens? Have they done anything to further our nation?

Yes, they have. Immigrants often bring capital to the US, start businesses, and provide affordable labor. They often serve in the armed forces. Have you or I done anything to further our nation other than play our part in the massive consumer gluttony which drives our economy? Why shouldn't the Constitution protect them?

Quote:

Have they shown any kind of loyalty to the US? I don't care where you come from, but if you plan on living here and would like the full protection then become a citizen and all will be good.

Fine, but nobody can become a citizen automatically. There is a residency requirement. Are you saying that your good neighbors who are working toward citizenship should not be afforded constitutional protection until the day they swear the oath? If I remember, you have ancestors who immigrated. Did they get citizenship when they stepped off the boat? And yes, they often do show loyalty to the US.

Quote:

I am an American citizen and my loyalty is to my fellow citizens first and foremost.

Well, I am a human being first and foremost. As one of God's children I feel respect for the humanity of all other human beings. The constitution was written out of respect for this same humanity, and it does say that all men are created equal, not all US citizens.

Quote:

All others come second. I hate to be harsh, but it is my fellow citizens who are going to look out for me and the other way around.

Face the facts, when the **** hits the fan no other country is going to have our backs and we are all we are going to have.

When the **** hits the fan, I have faith that my family, friends, and community would have my back. These groups include many many non-citizens. But maybe you will be busy hanging them from the nearest tree and they won't be able to.

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Aside from the sick attitude of thinking only American citizens matter, I think that you are missing the big picture.

Nothing ever happens at once and American citizens will be next.

When was the last time someone was tortured in a health fraud case either by one of our off shore prisons or by us sending suspected terrorist to countries to be tortured? The two are not comparable.

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They're Finally Doing It...And It's About Time

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