They're Finally Doing It...And It's About Time

FreeDuck wrote:

woiyo wrote:

"Recipients could challenge the subpoenas in court and the Bush administration would have to report to Congress twice a year exactly how it was using this investigatory power, the aides said."

Seems like there is a check and balance here.

What exactly are you afraid of?

I'm afraid that with this change the burden of proof, or even of probable cause, seems to have shifted to the suspect rather than the government. That's not supposed to be how things work here. That IS however, the way things work in third world dictatorships.

That is a "whine", not an answer.

They can challange the subpoena in court. They will report to Congress twice a year. Abuse of this power will be checked by Congress AND the courts.

What is it exactly that you are afraid of?

"Recipients could challenge the subpoenas in court and the Bush administration would have to report to Congress twice a year exactly how it was using this investigatory power, the aides said."

Seems like there is a check and balance here.

What exactly are you afraid of?

"They also have pushed for the administrative subpoena power, which they say prosecutors already are using in health care fraud and other criminal cases.

Justice Department officials have been consulted on the legislation and offered technical advice, department spokesman Kevin Madden said.

"The Department of Justice appreciates that the Senate Intelligence Committee has signaled their intention to support provisions that enhance law enforcement's ability to combat terrorism effectively," Madden said."


The DOJ and Senate Committee are only in the drafting stage at this point and nothing has been changed.

Your overreation is consistant with your inability objectively debate the issue of National Security.

Of course if you carfully examined all the elements of the Patriot Act and the Homeboy Security Dept, you would come to realize that it is all a bunch of BS degisgned by our elected officials, both democrat and Republicans, to give the appearence that they are doing something, when in reality, they are not.

If our immigration laws were actually followed and our borders actually secure, none of this crap would be needed.

So why pile more crap on top of the existing crap?

At some point it has to stop.

I'm confused.

Is woiyo for or against expansion of the patriot act and making search warrant sections permanant? What she is quoting sounds like she's against it.

BTW, "Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and other administration officials have been adamant that the expiring provisions become permanent, with few changes.


They also have pushed for the administrative subpoena power, which they say prosecutors already are using in health care fraud and other criminal cases...

"The Department of Justice appreciates that the Senate Intelligence Committee has signaled their intention to support provisions that enhance law enforcement's ability to combat terrorism effectively," Madden said.


What the heck does health care fraud have to do with terrorism? Come on! This isn't being used to combat terrorism. it's being used against american citizens.

blueveinedthrobber wrote:

candidone1 wrote:

Unfortunately, there are still too many who believe that's exactly what Bush is doing with his policies--taking back America.

but less and less of them everyday..... :wink:

Why not give them the powers they need to combat terrorists here on American soil? I know you are concerned about abuse, but has there been any abuse? Have there been any reports of abuse? Have people disappeared off the streets never to be seen again?

Given how the media operates here it wouldn't be hard to figure out if they are abusing the power. I'm willing to give my govt the benefit of the doubt on issues such as this. Do you not want to because you don't like this administration? Would you object as strongly if it were someone who you liked and trusted.

Actually people have vanished off the streets never to be seen from again, from us anyway. We send them off to other countries to be tortured.

I don't trust this bunch of power grabbing left over federalist as far as I can spit. In fact they scare me more than words can say. Terrorist can kill us and terrorize us, but they can't change our country; only we can and we are.