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US AND THEM: US, UN & Iraq, version 8.0

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 11:16 am
This pres is all talk and no action. He started out being AWOL from duty, and exempts his own children from serving this country - as you say for "a great and noble cause." It's all rhetoric; has no value in terms of ethics or personal (family)
committment.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 11:19 am
http://www.bartcop.com/jesus-gop.gif
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 11:29 am
PDiddie wrote:
[img]cut for space[/img]

Why haven't they enlisted to fight in the war that their father considers a "great and noble cause"?


Why haven't you started your vigil in front of the Crawford ranch with Sheehan?
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 11:36 am
I've been out of town, buddy. I'll be there next weekend, though.

*smack*

I can't believe you actually stepped in that... Laughing

And why haven't YOU joined the counter-protestors onsite? Don't you love America (or is it too far for you to go to love America)?
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 11:40 am
I'm going back next weekend. Want to meet up?

Cycloptichorn
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 11:41 am
Be sure you post something besides lip service to back up your claims here.

Why would I want to protest? She has the perfectly fine right to do what she is doing no matter how mis-guided it may be or how it sullies the name of her son.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 11:42 am
Excellent, C. I'm coordinating with a few others on the ride over, and will PM you a cell # later in the week.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 11:44 am
http://www.bartcop.com/rockinghorse-monkey.gif
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 11:45 am
Mrs Sheehan is misguided because she lost her oldest son in Iraq? Will you please explain that?
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 11:48 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Mrs Sheehan is misguided because she lost her oldest son in Iraq? Will you please explain that?


No please don't, McG. We're not interested in this logic.

c.i.: ya gotta STOP asking the monkeys to think.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 12:24 pm
Pdid, keep your petty jealousy of others intelligence to yourself as it just makes you look more the clown.

C.I., She is misguided because she is allowing the usual gang of Bush beaters to use her and her sons death as just another symbol of their political motivations. Kind of like how the right used Lynch. Her demands are unrealistic and silly. How you decided that she is misguided because she lost her son I have no idea.
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 12:35 pm
Wow! Your efforts to continue deluding yourselves is getting increasingly desperate.

Lest we forget!

[i][b]malignancy [/b][/i]in their booklet by the Pakistani jihadist group Lashkar-e-Taiba (Army of the Pure) wrote:


eight reasons for global jihad. These include the restoration of Islamic sovereignty to all lands where Muslims were once ascendant, including Spain, "Bulgaria, Hungary, Cyprus, Sicily, Ethiopia, Russian Turkistan and Chinese Turkistan. . . Even parts of France reaching 90 kilometers outside Paris."



[i][b]malignancy [/b][/i]in their fatwahs wrote:


[1996]
Our youths believe in paradise after death. They believe that taking part in fighting will not bring their day nearer; and staying behind will not postpone their day either.

These youths believe in what has been told by Allah and His messenger (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) about the greatness of the reward for the Mujahideen and Martyrs; Allah, the most exalted said: {and -so far- those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish. He will guide them and improve their condition. and cause them to enter the garden -paradise- which He has made known to them}. (Muhammad; 47:4-6). Allah the Exalted also said: {and do not speak of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead; nay -they are- alive, but you do not perceive} (Bagarah; 2:154).

[1998]
I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but Allah is worshipped.
...
[2004]
No Muslim should risk his life as he may inadvertently be killed if he associates with the Crusaders, whom we have no choice but to kill.
...


from that which Wikipedia wrote:

At the beginning of the US March 20, 2003 invasion of Iraq, the al Qaeda aligned, Ansar al Islam, formed in northern Iraq in December 2001, controlled about a dozen villages and a range of peaks in northern Iraq on the Iranian border.
...
When the US invaded, it attacked the al Qaeda aligned, Ansar al Islam, training camps in northern Iraq, and the organization's leaders retreated to neighboring countries. When the war in the north settled down, the militants returned to Iraq to fight against the occupying American forces.


Exterminate malignancy. Do not negotiate with malignancy. Any effort to give malignancy whatever malignancy says malignancy wants will be interpreted by malignancy as malignancy's reward for malignancy's murders of civilians. The price of negotiating with malignancy is too high. The price of negotiating with malignancy, is continuation of malignancy's daily murder rate of about 30 Iraqi civilians.
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 12:35 pm
I don't see how you can compare the stories that the right used about Jessica Lynch and a woman who lost her son in the war in Iraq deciding on her own to protest against the war. She is protesting because she lost her son; no one twisted her arm behind her back and forced her to go up to George Bush's ranch.


Also who are you to say she sullies the name of her son?
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 12:37 pm
My last post was directed to McG, lest it get confused with Ican's spamming post.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 12:38 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Pdid, keep your petty jealousy of others intelligence to yourself as it just makes you look more the clown.


I love clowns...

http://funfire.de/bilder/funfire-de-1068294784-69.jpg
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 12:41 pm
revel, The right tries to use diversion tactics to lessen the issues being discussed. They project their own conclusions about other people's motivations and values. To even suggest that the mother of a slain soldier sullies their son by peaceful demostration just goes to show how ignorant they are of American democracy.
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 12:50 pm
revel wrote:
My last post was directed to McG, lest it get confused with Ican's spamming post.

Truth is spam? Rolling Eyes
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 12:59 pm
Anything posted over and over is spam, whether you believe it to be truth or not.

Cycloptichorn
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 01:29 pm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5211842,00.html

Monday August 15, 2005 8:01 PM


AP Photo BAG128

By ANTONIO CASTANEDA

Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Iraqi politicians agreed Monday on a draft constitution but decided to put off two key issues - women's rights and whether Kurds might someday secede - so the document could be submitted to parliament by a midnight deadline, two Shiite officials said.

Two large explosions hit central Baghdad later Monday and could be heard in the convention center in the heavily guarded Green Zone where meetings were being held on the charter.

Nasar al-Rubaie, a member of the committee drafting the constitution, said the document would be handed over to the 275-member National Assembly late Monday for a decision on the two unresolved issues. He said those issues were women's rights and self-determination, a Kurdish demand for more autonomy and the right to secede someday.

Jalaldin al-Saghir, a Shiite member of parliament, confirmed agreement had been reached but refused to identify the two remaining issues.

``An agreement has been reached on the constitution and it was signed and it will be handed to parliament,'' he said. ``There are two points that the National Assembly will have to solve.''

Parliament, meanwhile, delayed a session Monday on whether to approve a new constitution by a midnight deadline. It was not clear when the legislators would begin meeting.

The developments came after some Iraqi faction leaders had suggested that parliament should extend the deadline for approving the charter as last-minute talks failed to produce agreement on a federated state and other divisive issues.

The National Assembly initially had been scheduled to convene at 6 p.m. (10 a.m. EDT) to consider the draft, but the convention hall remained absent of legislators well after 10 p.m.

Sirens wailed in the Green Zone, home to government offices and U.S. military compounds, shortly after the blasts were heard. More details were not immediatley available.

Tariq al-Hashimi, the general secretary of Iraq's biggest Sunni political group, the Iraqi Islamic party, told Al-Jazeera television earlier that the minority's objections to federalism were not the only obstacles blocking progress.

Instead, he said Shiites and Kurds also had ``points of disagreement'' and it might be better to delay a decision. He didn't elaborate.

But a Kurdish member of the drafting committee, Munthir al-Fadl, said that a constitution that doesn't fulfill Kurdish demands of ``self-determination'' and the authority of provincial governors, ``will not succeed and will not even reach the gates of the National Assembly.''

Al-Hashimi said his party did not believe in the ``sanctity'' of the interim constitution.

Meanwhile, the insurgency pressed ahead, with at least 13 people killed in scattered attacks, including a barber who police said was shot to death as he walked to his parlor in southwest Baghdad.

Barbers in the country have been targeted by fundamentalists who accuse them of violating a strict interpretation of Islamic teachings that say men should keep their beards long.

The Iraqis have been under strong pressure from the United States to complete the charter on time and keep on track a political process the Americans hope will lure Sunnis away from the insurgency so U.S. and other foreign troops can begin to go home next year.

Iraqi leaders had insisted the draft constitution would be presented to parliament on Monday.

``It will be today. It will be a historic day in the history of Iraq,'' Iraqi National Security Adviser Mouwaffak al-Rubaie told CNN just over an hour before the delay was announced.

Government spokesman Laith Kubba also said the document would be presented on time.

``Every group knows what they will lose if they don't reach an agreement,'' Kubba told state-run Iraqiya television.

Some Shiite and Kurdish leaders had signaled they were prepared to submit the draft to parliament Monday evening - even if they had to do so over Sunni Arab objections.

But that risked a backlash among Sunni Arabs, who form the core of the insurgency, which could undermine the American goal of using the constitution to lure away Sunnis from the insurgency.

With stakes so high, public positions among the factions were changing by the hour.

A lawmaker from the biggest Shiite party, Jalaladin al-Shagir, said political leaders were leaning toward extending the deadline for up to a month. Another option expressed was to ignore Sunni objections, submit the document to parliament as planned and try to win over the Sunni public before an Oct. 15 referendum on the charter.

Sunni Arabs had asked that the issue of federalism be put off until next year. Shiites and Kurds, the two other major groups in the country, are pushing for autonomous regions in the southern and northern parts of Iraq, but Sunnis fear the proposal could split Iraq.

Sunnis also oppose other proposals endorsed by the Shiites and Kurds, including proposals for a special status for the Shiite clerical leadership and a formula for distributing oil wealth and dual citizenship.

But Shiites and Kurds dominate the National Assembly - as well as the constitutional committee - and could ram through the charter over Sunni Arab objects. Other options include amending the interim constitution to extend the deadline or dissolving parliament.

Sunnis - who boycotted the Jan. 30 vote for an interim parliament - could defeat the constitution in the national referendum, which was to be followed by general elections in December. If two-thirds of the voters in three provinces vote against the constitution, it would be defeated. Sunni Arabs form the majority in at least four provinces.

Sunni clerics have urged followers to vote against any constitution that could lead to the breakup of the country

American officials applied pressure to resolve differences on that and other issues before Monday's deadline - despite the risks of alienating the Sunnis.

``A lot of American blood and American treasure has been spent here,'' U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad said Sunday in a televised interview, adding he had made that point ``abundantly clear'' to the Iraqis.

In other violence Monday:

-Insurgents fired a rocket into the city of Habaniyah, 50 miles west of Baghdad, killing six Iraqis and wounding three on Monday, the U.S. military said.

-A municipal council member and his driver were shot to death in Khalis, police said.

-Gunmen killed three Iraqi soldiers and wounded three others at a checkpoint in Buhriz, police said.

-An insurgent ambush in western Baghdad killed one Iraqi soldier and injured another, police said.

-The body of a government food program worker was found in Baqouba. In the nearby village of Khirnabat, police said Monday a roadside bomb had killed one civilian the day before.
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 02:01 pm
The signing just got extended for seven days...prolly a good idea.
0 Replies
 
 

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