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US AND THEM: US, UN & Iraq, version 8.0

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 02:06 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Anything posted over and over is spam, whether you believe it to be truth or not. Cycloptichorn

Hearts and minds are won with truth. Truth posted over and over again is not spam; it's repeated truth to combat repeated falsity, whether you believe it or not.

[i][b]malignancy [/b][/i]in their booklet by the Pakistani jihadist group Lashkar-e-Taiba (Army of the Pure) wrote:

...
... eight reasons for global jihad. These include the restoration of Islamic sovereignty to all lands where Muslims were once ascendant, including Spain, "Bulgaria, Hungary, Cyprus, Sicily, Ethiopia, Russian Turkistan and Chinese Turkistan. . . Even parts of France reaching 90 kilometers outside Paris."
...

[i][b]malignancy [/b][/i]in their fatwahs wrote:

...
[1996]
Our youths believe in paradise after death. They believe that taking part in fighting will not bring their day nearer; and staying behind will not postpone their day either.
...
These youths believe in what has been told by Allah and His messenger (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) about the greatness of the reward for the Mujahideen and Martyrs; Allah, the most exalted said: {and -so far- those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish. He will guide them and improve their condition. and cause them to enter the garden -paradise- which He has made known to them}. (Muhammad; 47:4-6). Allah the Exalted also said: {and do not speak of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead; nay -they are- alive, but you do not perceive} (Bagarah; 2:154).
...
[1998]
I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but Allah is worshipped.
...
[2004]
No Muslim should risk his life as he may inadvertently be killed if he associates with the Crusaders, whom we have no choice but to kill.
...

from that which Wikipedia wrote:

At the beginning of the US March 20, 2003 invasion of Iraq, the al Qaeda aligned, Ansar al Islam, formed in northern Iraq in December 2001, controlled about a dozen villages and a range of peaks in northern Iraq on the Iranian border.
...
When the US invaded, it attacked the al Qaeda aligned, Ansar al Islam, training camps in northern Iraq, and the organization's leaders retreated to neighboring countries. When the war in the north settled down, the militants returned to Iraq to fight against the occupying American forces.

Exterminate malignancy. Do not negotiate with malignancy. Any effort to give malignancy whatever malignancy says malignancy wants will be interpreted by malignancy as malignancy's reward for malignancy's murders of civilians. The price of negotiating with malignancy is too high. The price of negotiating with malignancy is continuation of malignancy's murder rate of about 30 Iraqi civilians per day.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 03:21 pm
Quote:
Hearts and minds are won with truth. Truth posted over and over again is not spam; it's repeated truth to combat repeated falsity, whether you believe it or not.


No, it is spam. I don't care a whit what you believe is the truth. Repeatedly posting the same thing in the forum is spam. This isn't an opinion issue about the content of your posts, as much as you would like it to be.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 03:31 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:
Hearts and minds are won with truth. Truth posted over and over again is not spam; it's repeated truth to combat repeated falsity, whether you believe it or not.


No, it is spam. I don't care a whit what you believe is the truth. Repeatedly posting the same thing in the forum is spam. This isn't an opinion issue about the content of your posts, as much as you would like it to be. Cycloptichorn
Right! This is your avoidance of the subject of this forum issue.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Aug, 2005 03:59 pm
Iraq's parliament has agreed to extend the deadline for finalising the country's draft constitution after delegates failed to reach agreement.

BBC article
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 06:57 am
This may seem tacky (in fact I am sure it is) but I am wondering if any bets are being made about the parties coming to an agreement on all the issues by the new deadline? I mean if they couldn't come to an agreement yesterday with all that pressure to do so; why will they 12 days from now?
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 07:03 am
Apparently, the Kurdish members want the right to vote for independence in eight years. This would be bad for federalism in Iraq.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 08:51 am
Quote:
Good news out of Iraq must not go unnoticed

August 15, 2005

BY DEROY MURDOCK


Amid roadside bombs, constitutional squabbles and even a blinding sandstorm last week, one wonders if anything is going right in Iraq. Plenty is, actually.

The journalists' maxim, ''If it bleeds, it leads,'' prevails. Major news outlets correctly focus on the depressing consequences of the Improvised Explosive Devices and car bombs responsible for 70 percent of U.S. military fatalities in Iraq last month. Terrorist assassinations of civil servants and police officers obviously deserve coverage. But it honors neither America's soldiers nor Iraq's selfless patriots to overlook the achievements they share in this new republic.

The growth of locals in uniform is a positive military development.

According to the Brookings Institution's indispensable Iraq Index, brookings.edu/iraqindex, the number of on-duty Iraqi security personnel has risen from 125,373 in January to 175,700 today. They fight beside coalition forces against terrorists and Baathist holdouts. One joint raid nabbed 22 alleged insurgents in Yusufiyah on July 25, while another 10 suspected terrorists were caught in Ramadi on Aug. 3. In both cases, the Pentagon reports, citizens offered intelligence that helped Iraqis and their coalition partners nail these killers.

Civic-affairs work by uniformed personnel may have persuaded average Iraqis to furnish useful information. On Aug. 5, GIs and medics from the 1st Battalion, 24th Infantry Division, plus Iraqi police, performed health screenings on 200 Mosul children. They also gave these kids soccer balls.

During five such missions since mid-July, some 1,000 kids in Mosul received basic medical attention.

Infrastructure improvements also are encouraging. A new Kirkuk treatment plant began providing clean water to 5,000 people on June 27, the State Department says. Another 84 U.S.-led waterworks projects are under way in Iraq, while 114 have been completed.

Some 18,000 pupils will study in rehabilitated classrooms when they go back to school in mid-September. According to U.S. and Iraqi officials, 43 more schools were slated for renovation Aug. 6. So far, 3,211 schools have been refurbished, and another 773 are being repaired.

Iraq's monthly oil exports have grown from $200 million in June 2003 to $2.5 billion last month. This is due both to higher prices and to the fact that fuel supplies have swelled from 23 percent to 97 percent of official production goals in that period. These key improvements also help explain why Iraq's gross domestic product increased from a World Bank estimate of $12.1 billion in 2003 to a projected $21.1 billion in 2004.

Iraqis who endured Baathist censorship now enjoy a vibrant, free press.

Commercial TV channels, radio stations and independent newspapers and magazines have zoomed from zero before Operation Iraqi Freedom to -- respectively -- 29, 80 and 170 today.

Internet subscribers have boomed from 4,500 before Iraq's liberation to 147,076 last March, not counting the additional Iraqis who use Internet cafes. When Saddam Hussein fell, Iraq had 833,000 telephone subscribers. In July that figure had soared 356.4 percent to 3,801,822.

In the political arena, women hold seven of Baghdad's top 40 ministerial positions. While Iraq is more than 17.5 percent female, this is impressive political involvement for women in the world's most sexist region. Among others, women run Iraq's ministries of communications, environment, public works and human rights.

America's National Democratic Institute (a global outreach organization) last month trained 208 members of 70 political parties and 10 NGOs from across Iraq. They studied U.S.-style campaign skills including knocking on doors, canvassing petitions and organizing rallies. In another workshop, activists learned how to promote their parties' agendas on TV during two-minute and even 30-second sound bites.

The White House communications team -- hobbled by institutional bashfulness and a nearly terminal incapacity for self-expression -- must educate Americans and our allies more effectively on what works in Iraq.

While journalists should not whitewash Iraq's mayhem, they should cover the accomplishments of U.S. personnel, soldiers from the 27 other nations with boots on the sand, and the Iraqis who are rebuilding their country -- never mind the evildoers' blasts and billowing smoke.


Deroy Murdock is a columnist with Scripps Howard News Service and a senior fellow with the Atlas Economic Research Foundation in Fairfax, Va. E-mail: [email protected]
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 10:10 am
Fair enough, Tico. Noted.
Some things good, some things bad.

It's still a war crime.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 10:16 am
What are the true goals of AQ? The re-establishment of the Caliphate. As I have been saying for some time.

Quote:
THE FUTURE OF TERRORISM

What al-Qaida Really Wants

By Yassin Musharbash

If there is anyone who might possibly have an inkling as to what al-Qaida are up to, it is the Jordanian journalist Fouad Hussein. He has not only spent time in prison with al-Zarqawi, but has also managed make contact with many of the network's leaders. Based on correspondence with these sources, he has now brought out a book detailing the organization's master plan.



AFP
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is blamed for some of the worst terrorist attacks and hostage killings in Iraq.
There must be something particularly trustworthy about the Jordanian journalist Fouad Hussein. After all, he has managed to get some of the the most sought after terrorists to open up to him. Maybe it helped that they spent time together in prison many years ago -- when Hussein was a political prisoner he successfully negotiated for Abu Musab al-Zarqawi to be released from solitary confinement. Or is it because of the honest and direct way in which he puts his ideas onto paper? Whatever the reason, the result is that a film which Hussein made about al-Zarqawi has even been shown on al-Qaida affiliated Web sites. "That showed me that they at least felt understood," the journalist says.

Even for an Arab journalist it is no easy matter getting in touch with al-Qaida's inner circle. Nevertheless, Hussein, who is based in Amman, Jordan, has succeeded in turning his correspondence with the terrorists into a remarkable book: "al-Zarqawi - al-Qaida's Second Generation."

If you meet Hussein, as you might when he is relaxing in Amman's Café Vienna, you see he is calm and laid-back, without any of the glamour of a secret service spy. But what this small, slim man has to report is nothing less than the world's most dangerous terrorist network's plan of action: al-Qaida's strategy for the next two decades. It is both frightening and absurd, a lunatic plan conceived by fanatics who live in their own world, but who continually manage to break into the real world with their brutal acts of violence.

One of Hussein's most sensational sources for the book, according to what he told SPIEGEL Online, was Seif al-Adl. The Egyptian terrorist, who is suspected of taking part in the attacks on the American Embassies in Dar es Salaam and Nairobi in 1998, has a ransom of US$5 million on his head from the FBI. Secret services suspect that al-Adl is now in Iran.



AFP
Have you seen this man? If so, you could earn yourself 5 million dollars. Seif al-Adl is not only wanted by the FBI but is also one of Hussein's main sources in the book.
To prove that he really has had contact to al-Adl, Hussein includes in the first two pages of the book a copy of a hand-written letter the wanted man sent to the author. In the original document, which is 15 pages long, al-Adl describes the disagreements between al-Zarqawi and Osama bin Laden during the Afghanistan war. "Statements from Seif al-Adl have also crept into the chapter on al-Qaida's strategy," explains Fouad Hussein.

An Islamic Caliphate in Seven Easy Steps

In the introduction, the Jordanian journalist writes, "I interviewed a whole range of al-Qaida members with different ideologies to get an idea of how the war between the terrorists and Washington would develop in the future." What he then describes between pages 202 and 213 is a scenario, proof both of the terrorists' blindness as well as their brutal single-mindedness. In seven phases the terror network hopes to establish an Islamic caliphate which the West will then be too weak to fight.



The First Phase Known as "the awakening" -- this has already been carried out and was supposed to have lasted from 2000 to 2003, or more precisely from the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 in New York and Washington to the fall of Baghdad in 2003. The aim of the attacks of 9/11 was to provoke the US into declaring war on the Islamic world and thereby "awakening" Muslims. "The first phase was judged by the strategists and masterminds behind al-Qaida as very successful," writes Hussein. "The battle field was opened up and the Americans and their allies became a closer and easier target." The terrorist network is also reported as being satisfied that its message can now be heard "everywhere."


The Second Phase "Opening Eyes" is, according to Hussein's definition, the period we are now in and should last until 2006. Hussein says the terrorists hope to make the western conspiracy aware of the "Islamic community." Hussein believes this is a phase in which al-Qaida wants an organization to develop into a movement. The network is banking on recruiting young men during this period. Iraq should become the center for all global operations, with an "army" set up there and bases established in other Arabic states.


The Third Phase This is described as "Arising and Standing Up" and should last from 2007 to 2010. "There will be a focus on Syria," prophesies Hussein, based on what his sources told him. The fighting cadres are supposedly already prepared and some are in Iraq. Attacks on Turkey and -- even more explosive -- in Israel are predicted. Al-Qaida's masterminds hope that attacks on Israel will help the terrorist group become a recognized organization. The author also believes that countries neighboring Iraq, such as Jordan, are also in danger.


The Fourth Phase Between 2010 and 2013, Hussein writes that al-Qaida will aim to bring about the collapse of the hated Arabic governments. The estimate is that "the creeping loss of the regimes' power will lead to a steady growth in strength within al-Qaida." At the same time attacks will be carried out against oil suppliers and the US economy will be targeted using cyber terrorism.


The Fifth Phase This will be the point at which an Islamic state, or caliphate, can be declared. The plan is that by this time, between 2013 and 2016, Western influence in the Islamic world will be so reduced and Israel weakened so much, that resistance will not be feared. Al-Qaida hopes that by then the Islamic state will be able to bring about a new world order.


The Sixth Phase Hussein believes that from 2016 onwards there will a period of "total confrontation." As soon as the caliphate has been declared the "Islamic army" it will instigate the "fight between the believers and the non-believers" which has so often been predicted by Osama bin Laden.


The Seventh Phase This final stage is described as "definitive victory." Hussein writes that in the terrorists' eyes, because the rest of the world will be so beaten down by the "one-and-a-half billion Muslims," the caliphate will undoubtedly succeed. This phase should be completed by 2020, although the war shouldn't last longer than two years.




A Serious Plan?

But just how serious is this scenario? "Al-Qaida makes no compromises," says the book's author Fouad Hussein. He obviously believes that this seven-point plan could well become the guiding principle for a whole range of al-Qaida fighters. Hussein is far from an hysterical alarmist -- in fact he is seen as a serious journalist and his Zarqawi book is better than most of the reports in Arabic on the subject. Only last year, the journalist made a film which was received with great interest and was shown on the German-French TV channel arte. In it he provided deep insights into al-Qaida's internet propaganda machine.


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Nevertheless, there is no way the scenario he depicts can be seen as a plan which al-Qaida can follow step by step. The terrorist network just doesn't work like that anymore. The significance of the central leadership has diminished and its direct commands have lost a great deal of importance. The supposed master plan for the years 2000 to 2020 reads in parts more like a group of ideas cobbled together in retrospect, than something planned and presented in advance. And not to mention the terrorist agenda is simply unworkable: the idea that al-Qaida could set up a caliphate in the entire Islamic world is absurd. The 20-year plan is based mainly on religious ideas. It hardly has anything to do with reality -- especially phases four to seven.

But that doesn't mean that we should simply discount everything that Hussein has uncovered. A few of the steps in the agenda are plausible. The idea that Syria will become a focus for the Mujahedin is regarded by experts as highly likely. "Close ranks, concentrate on getting more recruits, set up cells," was the call to the "Mujahedin in Syria" which appeared on one Web site at the beginning of August. From the point of view of the jihadists, Israel and Turkey are also fairly logical targets for an escalation of the confrontation. "Al-Qaida views every fight as a victory, because for so long Muslims didn't have any weapons at all," says Hussein. He may not be far off. As for Jordan, al-Qaida leaders such as al-Zarqawi, have already made attacks on the country. They have also stated on numerous occasions that Jerusalem is the real target.

Equally, the idea that in the future al-Qaida could increasingly become a movement that attracts young frustrated men, is hardly a theory plucked out of thin air. The terror network puts a lot of effort into its propaganda -- assumedly in order to expand its support base.

Attacks on the West: a Means to an End

What is interesting is that major attacks against the West are not even mentioned by Fouad Hussein. Terrorism here cannot be ignored -- but it seems these attacks simply supplement the larger aim of setting up an Islamic caliphate. Attacks such as those in New York, Madrid and London would in this case not be ends in themselves, but rather means to a achieve a larger purpose -- steps in a process of increasing insecurity in the West.

Nowadays, it is harder than ever to truly understand al-Qaida: the organization has degenerated into branches and loosely connected cells, related groups are taken in, and people who hardly had anything to do with al-Qaida before, now carry out attacks in its name. It is hard to imagine orders which come right from the top because Osama bin Laden spends all his time struggling to survive. At the same time, the division between foot soldiers in the organization and sympathizers is becoming increasingly blurred. It is all too easy to fall prey to disinformation -- al-Qaida also excels in this area. Even Hussein's scenario should be judged skeptically.

His book should therefore be read for what it really is: an attempt to second guess how al-Qaida terrorists think, what they really want and how they propose to get there.


http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,369448,00.html

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 11:11 am
Sent by a friend in Australia:

"The Washington Post reported yesterday that "the Bush administration is significantly lowering expectations of what can be achieved in Iraq ...
[It] no longer expects to see a model new democracy, a self-supporting
oil industry or a society in which the majority of people are free from
serious security or economic challenges." Amazing! Anyone with even a basic understanding of the Middle East knew that was the inevitable outcome of the Mad Invasion of 2003. Counts out the neo-Cons, of course. Too thick and too blind to read the obvious, they thought they could plan the implausible and achieve the impossible. They pushed hundreds of thousands of young Americans (and not a few others) headlong into the deadly quagmire that today is "Iraq" (just as, thirty years ago, it was "Vietnam"). It's the same with their inane "war on terror". And it's the same with their senseless "security measures". Only ignorant nutters would ever believe that terrorism could be stopped by killing people and taking away our civil liberties.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 12:46 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
...
Only ignorant nutters would ever believe that terrorism could be stopped by killing people and taking away our civil liberties.


What do knowledgeable "nutters" believe will stop terrorism?

Perhaps giving 'em their Caliphate would stop terrorist's terrorism?

Who shall survive after the terrorists are given their Caliphate?

What shall happen to the civil libertyies of those who do survive the establishment of the Caliphate?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 12:59 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
What are the true goals of AQ? The re-establishment of the Caliphate. As I have been saying for some time. ...


Did you ever "say" in this forum AQ's true goal is the re-establishment of the Caliphate? If yes, when was the last time you did that?

Do you think re-establishment of the Caliphate would be a good thing for human kind?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 01:12 pm
ican711nm wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
What are the true goals of AQ? The re-establishment of the Caliphate. As I have been saying for some time. ...


Quote:
Did you ever "say" in this forum AQ's true goal is the re-establishment of the Caliphate? If yes, when was the last time you did that?


I believe the words I usually use to describe it are 'Dar Al-Islaam.' Which is the same thing. I have done so on a regular basis when the topic of what the terrorist's intentions are; surely you remember.

Quote:
Do you think re-establishment of the Caliphate would be a good thing for human kind?


Probably not. But that doesn't change their goals at all, does it?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 02:50 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
What are the true goals of AQ? The re-establishment of the Caliphate. As I have been saying for some time. ...


I believe the words I usually use to describe it are 'Dar Al-Islaam.' Which is the same thing. I have done so on a regular basis when the topic of what the terrorist's intentions are; surely you remember.

Yes, I now remember your recent reference to 'Dar Al-Islaam.' If I recall correctly you were at that time responding to this:
... in their booklet by the Pakistani jihadist group Lashkar-e-Taiba (Army of the Pure) wrote:

… eight reasons for global jihad. These include the restoration of Islamic sovereignty to all lands where Muslims were once ascendant, including Spain, "Bulgaria, Hungary, Cyprus, Sicily, Ethiopia, Russian Turkistan and Chinese Turkistan. . . Even parts of France reaching 90 kilometers outside Paris."


Quote:
Do you think re-establishment of the Caliphate would be a good thing for human kind?


Probably not. But that doesn't change their goals at all, does it?

Right! It doesn't change their goals whether their goals are good or not for human kind. My question now is what changes to the West's goals are an appropriate response to the al Qaeda's Caliphate goal?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 01:52 am
Quote:
'He Did Not Die For Your Freedom'

By Missy Comley Beattie, AlterNet
Posted on August 17, 2005, Printed on August 17, 2005

http://www.alternet.org/story/24158/

Chase Johnson Comley
1983--2005

He is number 1,828, 1,829, or 1,830. We don't know for sure, because so many died that week. Our marine, Chase Johnson Comley, was killed when his vehicle was hit head-on by a suicide bomber. His death admits us to a club no one wants to join, a membership of grieving, questioning families who have heard the dreaded ring of the doorbell, a sound that reverberates in their worst imaginings and in their nightmares, and a messenger's words, "We regretfully inform you that your son..." You instantly realize that nothing you've thought, done, or felt has prepared you for this reality. The feeling is so much worse than a broken heart. It is an evisceration.

As I write this, Chase is being flown to Dover. His 6'4" body is in a coffin draped with the American flag. He loved his family, his country, his Sayre classmates, and his life, but we don't believe he loved his mission in Iraq. When recruited, he told us he'd be deployed to Japan. He called every week when he wasn't in the field to tell us he was counting the days until his return. He tried to sound upbeat, probably for our benefit, but his father, my brother, could detect in Chase's voice more than a hint of futility, and will never say "my son died doing what he loved."

For those of you who still trust this administration (your percentage diminishes every day), let me tell you that Chase Johnson Comley did not die to preserve your freedoms. He was not presented flowers by grateful Iraqis welcoming him as their liberator. My nephew died, fighting a senseless war for oil and for contracts, insuring the increased wealth of Bush and his administration's friends. He died long after George Bush, in his testosterone-charged, theatrical, soldier-for-a-day role, announced on an aircraft carrier beneath the banner, Mission Accomplished, that "major combat was over." He died in a country erupting into civil war and turned into a hellhole by George Bush, a place where democracy has no chance of prevailing, a country which will, instead, most likely be a theocracy, much like Saudi Arabia.

Have we won the "hearts and the minds" of the Iraqi people? Apparently not. Have we spent more than half a trillion dollars -- an amount that continues to rise -- on a war that King Abdullah advised Bush against because it would disrupt the entire Middle East? Apparently so.

Consider what this money could have done for healthcare, our children's education, or for a true humanitarian intervention in Sudan. And then think about the inauguration of George Bush. Picture the lavish parties, the couture gown worn by Laura, and imagine the cost of the security for this event. And then think about Rumsfeld when he visits our troops. Picture his heavily armored vehicle, the same kind that transports Saddam Hussein to and from court -- those machines that are impregnable to almost anything the insurgents toss in their paths, while our troops are not provided sufficient armor to survive an improvised explosive device.

Think of the mismanagement of this entire war effort. Think of Vietnam. Consider what we've lost. Too much. Think of what we've gained. Nothing. And think of someone who says, "We will not cut and run," but who cut and ran years ago when he was called. Think about a man who speaks about a "culture of life" when the words fit some wedge issue like abortion or the right to die when medical effort has failed. And then think about this war, Bush's not-so-intelligently-designed culture of death.

Think, too, about naming a campaign "Shock and Awe" as if it's a movie and, therefore, unreal. And then think that this, perhaps, is one of the problems. For many Americans, the war is an abstraction. But it is not an abstraction for the innocent Iraqis whose lives have been devastated by our "smart bombs." And it certainly is not an abstraction for those of us who have heard the words that have changed our lives forever.

So please, think of my family's grief, a grief that will never end. Think of all the families. Think of the wounded, the maimed, and psychologically scarred. And, then, consider this: The preservation of our freedom rests not on American imperialism. It depends on actively changing foreign policies that are conquest oriented, policies that dehumanize, not only our own young who become fodder for endless war but also those in other countries who are so distant that they become abstract. The answer definitely is not Bush's mantra, "They're jealous of our freedoms."

And, finally, think about the promises of those flowers. It's one of the many lies. Like the weapons of mass destruction. Or that we'd be welcomed as liberators. The flowers for Chase Johnson Comley will be presented not by grateful Iraqis but by those honoring him as he's lowered to his grave and buried in our hearts.

Missy Comley Beattie of New York is the aunt of Marine Lance Cpl. Chase J. Comley of Lexington who was recently killed in Iraq.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 05:56 am
Secrets of the morgue: Baghdad's body count
Bodies of 1,100 civilians brought to mortuary in July
Pre-invasion, July figure was typically less than 200
Last Sunday alone, the mortuary received 36 bodies
Up to 20 per cent of the bodies are never identified
Many of the dead have been tortured or disfigured
By Robert Fisk
Published: 17 August 2005


The Baghdad morgue is a fearful place of heat and stench and mourning, the cries of relatives echoing down the narrow, foetid laneway behind the pale-yellow brick medical centre where the authorities keep their computerised records. So many corpses are being brought to the mortuary that human remains are stacked on top of each other. Unidentified bodies must be buried within days for lack of space - but the municipality is so overwhelmed by the number of killings that it can no longer provide the vehicles and personnel to take the remains to cemeteries.
July was the bloodiest month in Baghdad's modern history - in all, 1,100 bodies were brought to the city's mortuary; executed for the most part, eviscerated, stabbed, bludgeoned, tortured to death. The figure is secret.

Article Length: 1384 words (approx.)

Front page of The Independent today, archived.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 07:34 am
I read that article McTag

The situation in Iraq is intolerable. Every other day a car bomb kills 20 30 60.

I dont think Blair or Bush has a clue what to do.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 08:07 am
Is the morgue more or less busy than it was under Saddam's regime? Probably more, I suppose, since Saddam's thugs just buried their victims in open pits.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 08:56 am
Ah yes Saddam. The unmovable one. Some said he was a monster. Others that he was firm but fair. But that was the old times when Iraq was free of car bombs and islamist murderers. When Saddam's secular regime provided electricity and redistributed some of the oil wealth in benefits. Saddam would have no truck with those who want Iraq to be an Islamic Republic. Yes things were better in those days, before foreign invasion brought war murder anarchy and mayhem. Whatever happenned to him anyway?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Aug, 2005 09:29 am
I wondered how long it would take before revisionists longed for "the good old days"...
0 Replies
 
 

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