McGentrix wrote:Is what happened in Iran what passes for a free election in your part of the world? Saddam used to win elections too.
Leading with your chin again? I believe GWB "won" a couple...and look where that's got you.
Iraq has no government at this time ... only sovereignity granted by the CPA Bremmer in 04 ... replete with appointed officials.
Maybe you haven't been paying attention to current events?
Perhaps you haven't? The recent election doesn't seem to be, shall we say, legitimate.
Cycloptichorn
What do you base that on?
What was your impression of the reason for the 12/15/05 elections?
Gelisgesti wrote:Iraq has no government at this time ... only sovereignity granted by the CPA Bremmer in 04 ... replete with appointed officials.
McGentrix wrote:Maybe you haven't been paying attention to current events?
President Jalal Talabani said Saturday that he believed it would not take nearly as long as the three months it took last spring to reach agreement on the composition of a new government.
More progress in the Iraqi democracy.
January 9, 2006
Attack at Heavily Secured Iraqi Ministry Kills at Least 14
By RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr. and JOHN O'NEIL
BAGHDAD, Iraq, Jan. 9 - In the latest in a series of brazen attacks in the heart of Baghdad's heavily fortified government zone, two suicide bombers disguised as high-ranking police officers blew themselves up outside the Interior Ministry today, killing at least 18 officers and wounding 25.
The attack came during a parade to mark Police Day that was attended by the Iraqi ministers of the interior and defense and by the American ambassador, an official of the Interior Ministry said.
Last week, a similar ceremony on a parade ground in the government zone to mark the country's Army Day was disrupted by mortar fire. No one was injured in the attack on that ceremony, which was also attended by the American ambassador, Zalmay Khalizad.
One of the bombers who carried out today's attack was disguised as a police major and the other as a lieutenant colonel, according to an official at the Interior Ministry. They both were wearing explosive belts under their uniforms.
Both had high-level security passes that enabled them to get through a checkpoint and into the heavily guarded Interior Ministry compound, according to news agency reports.
Guards became suspicious of one of the men because of his bulk and fired on him, detonating the explosive. As officers crowded around, the second bomber blew himself up, causing heavy casualties, according to the reports, which put the number of dead as high as 28.
Later, a mortar shell was fired at the ceremony as it proceeded on the nearby parade ground, but no injuries were reported.
Al Qaeda in Iraq claimed responsibility for the attack, according to news agencies. The Associated Press reported that a Web site that the group's leader, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, has often used to issue statements carried a claim of responsibility and described the attack as revenge for acts of torture against captured insurgents.
American soldiers shut down a detention center run by the Interior Ministry late last year, after discovering that prisoners appeared to be mistreated. An investigation into charges of torture, which the Interior Ministry denies, is continuing.
Also today, the American military confirmed that the 12 people were killed late on Saturday when an Army UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter crashed in northern Iraq were all Americans.
The dead were four American civilians and eight military personnel, according to the statement issued this morning.
Separately from the crash, the military reported on Sunday that five marines were killed in fighting with insurgents west of Baghdad over the weekend. Combined with the deaths of 11 American servicemen on Thursday, the fatalities marked one of the deadliest four-day stretches for the military since the fall of Baghdad.
Bad weather was thought to have played at least some role in the crash, but the military had not ruled out any possible cause or said whether hostile fire was involved.
The Black Hawk is the workhorse utility helicopter of the Army and it normally transports soldiers. But in Iraq, the helicopters also carry other government employees, private contractors and embedded journalists. "There was severe weather in the area, and that appears to have been a contributing factor" for the crash, said Lt. Col. Barry Johnson, a military spokesman in Baghdad. "But we don't know the precise cause yet."
The helicopter crashed about seven miles east of Tal Afar just before midnight. It had been flying between military bases in northern Iraq in support of troops from Task Force Band of Brothers, the American unit that patrols north-central Iraq. A rescue operation was begun as soon as communications were lost, the military said, and the helicopter was found about noon on Sunday, but the military has not yet been able to account for all the bodies.
The task force, which took command of north-central Iraq on Nov. 1, consists of a combat aviation brigade and two brigade combat teams from the 101st Airborne Division in Fort Campbell, Ky., and two brigade combat teams from the Third Infantry Division in Fort Stewart, Ga.
The unit's public affairs officer, Lt. Col. Ed Loomis, said in an e-mail message on Sunday night that "the investigation of the causes for the incident has just begun and nothing has been ruled out at this very early stage." Though only 30 miles west of Mosul, Iraq's second largest city, Tal Afar is a dusty, isolated city of a quarter-million people. Nine months ago, the Army's Third Armored Cavalry Division was reassigned there with orders to retake a region that had been overrun with insurgents.
The marines patrolling volatile Anbar Province in western Iraq suffered five fatalities over the weekend, including three killed by insurgents in separate attacks on Sunday in Falluja. All three were assigned to Regimental Combat Team 8 of the Second Marine Division, the Marines said. Another marine, from the Second Marine Logistics Group, died Saturday after his vehicle was attacked with a roadside bomb near Al Karmah, the military said. Also on Saturday, a roadside bomb detonated by insurgents near the village of Ferris killed another marine from Regimental Combat Team 8.
In Baghdad, the Iraqi and French authorities reported that Bernard Planche, a 52-year-old French engineer kidnapped in Baghdad last month, was set free on Saturday near a checkpoint set up west of the capital by Iraqi and American soldiers, Agence France-Presse reported.
An Iraqi security official describing the rescue of Mr. Planche told the news agency: "The kidnappers were in a car with the hostage. They fled when they saw the soldiers." Reuters quoted the French foreign minister, Philippe Douste-Blazy, on Sunday as saying that Mr. Planche "has just been picked up this afternoon in Baghdad by officials from the French Embassy," and would return to France soon.
American forces raided offices of the Muslim Scholars Association, a prominent Sunni Arab group, early on Sunday morning after receiving what military officials described to news agencies as information that there was significant terrorist-related activity in the building. The association issued a statement saying that it was a target because of its "anti-occupation stance" and that one of its members and five guards had been arrested by the Americans.
Also on Sunday, the main Kurdish political coalition said it had nominated Jalal Talabani to again serve as Iraqi president. It is not clear whether Mr. Talabani will end up with the job again: Some Shiite leaders have suggested that the job, less powerful than prime minister, go to a Sunni Arab to give the nation's disaffected Sunni minority at least one top slot in the new government.
Richard A. Oppel Jr. reported from Baghdad for this article and John O'Neil from New York. Sabrina Tavernise contributed reporting from Baghdad.
James Risen Gives Vital background to Downing St. Memo
New Book, State of War, by NY Times's New Book, State of War, by NY Times's James Risen Gives Vital Background to Downing Street Memo
By Jonathan Schwarz
AfterDowningStreet.org
Sunday 08 January 2006
The relevant excerpts from State of War appear at the bottom of this post.
After the Downing Street Memo was leaked last May, the U.S. and U.K. governments were eventually forced to admit it was genuine. However, they never revealed any background to the memo - most importantly, who did Richard Dearlove, head of British intelligence, meet with in Washington just before the July 23, 2002 high-level U.K. government meeting the memo memorialized? This would go a long way to answering why Dearlove believed "Military action was now seen as inevitable" and "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."
State of War, the just-released book by New York Times reporter James Risen, sheds important new light on these issues. (State of War is now best known for its revelations about warrantless spying by the NSA, but it contains a great deal of other significant information.) Regarding the Downing Street Memo, the most important points made by State of War are these:
Dearlove was in part reporting on a CIA-MI6 summit he attended with other top MI6 officials at CIA headquarters on Saturday, July 20, 2002
According to "a former senior CIA officer," the meeting was held "at the urgent request of the British"; CIA officials believe "Blair had ordered Dearlove to go to Washington to find out what the Bush administration was really thinking about Iraq"
During the day-long summit, Dearlove met privately with CIA head George Tenet for an hour and a half
This obviously raises other questions, such as:
What records of the meeting exist on the American side?
Will the Senate Intelligence Committee examine the meeting as part of its Phase II Iraq intelligence investigation?
What specifically did Dearlove and Tenet discuss when alone?
Why has the New York Times failed to publish Risen's information about the Downing Street Memo background?
Risen's book also makes the scoffing about the Downing Street Memo by various Washington pundits appear even more peculiar. For instance, in a Washington Post column, Michael Kinsley suggested Dearlove might have just been reporting back to Blair about what he'd heard from "the usual freelance chatterboxes." Later, in an exchange with Mark Danner, Kinsley indicated Dearlove may have simply been talking about the "mood and gossip of 'Washington.'"
In any case, there is clearly much more to the story, if anyone besides James Risen cares enough to investigate it.
From State of War by James Risen, p. 112-114:
As the invasion of Iraq drew closer, an attitude took hold among many senior CIA officials that war was inevitable - and so the quality of the intelligence on weapons of mass destruction didn't really matter. This attitude led CIA management to cut corners and accept shoddy intelligence, other CIA officials believe. "One of the senior guys in the NE Division [the Near East Division of the Directorate of Operations] told me that it isn't going to matter once we go to Baghdad, we are going to find mountains of this stuff," recalled a former CIA official, who left the agency after the war. This acceptance of weak intelligence among senior CIA officials appears to be the backstory to the famous so-called Downing Street Memo.
According to a former senior CIA official, the memo - the leaked British government document from July 2002 that provided a British assessment of the Bush administration's plans for Iraq - was written immediately after a secret conference in Washington between top officials of the CIA and British intelligence. The memo, dated July 23, reported that "there was a perceptible shift in attitude" in Washington about Iraq. The memo went on to say that "military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."
The memo reflected an assessment of the prevailing attitude inside the Bush administration offered to Prime Minister Tony Blair by Sir Richard Dearlove, the head of MI6, the British intelligence service. Just days before, Dearlove and other top MI6 officials had attended a CIA-MI6 summit meeting held at CIA headquarters, in which the two sides had candid talks about both counterterrorism and Iraq. According to a former senior CIA officer, the summit meeting was held at the urgent request of the British.
The American and British intelligence services are so close that under normal circumstances, they hold an annual summit to discuss a wide range of issues in a relaxed setting. The year before it had been held in Bermuda. But after 9/11, Tenet had told other CIA officials he was too busy to be bothered with another conference with the British, particularly one held in a remote location. The British were very insistent, however, and kept pushing for the meeting, the former CIA official said. The MI6 officials made it very clear to their CIA counterparts that they had to sit down and talk immediately.
CIA officials believe that Prime Minister Blair had ordered Dearlove to go to Washington to find out what the Bush administration was really thinking about Iraq. While Blair was in constant communication with President Bush, he apparently wanted his intelligence chief to scout out the thinking of other senior officials in Washington, to give him a reality check on what he was hearing from the White House.
"I think in hindsight that it is clear that Dearlove was insistent on having the summit because Blair wanted him to find out what was going on," said the former CIA official.
Tenet finally agreed to the conference as long as it could be held at CIA headquarters, rather than out of town. The session was scheduled for Saturday, July 20, 2002.
The two sides ended up spending most of that Saturday together. One of Tenet's great attributes was his ability to develop warm relationships with the chiefs of allied intelligence services, and Tenet had an especially good personal relationship with Dearlove. He was usually very candid with his British counterpart.
During the Saturday summmit, Tenet and Dearlove left the larger meeting and went off by themselves for about an hour and a half, according to a former senior CIA official who attended the summit. It is unclear what Tenet and Dearlove discussed during their one-on-one session. Yet Dearlove's overall assessment was reflected in the Downing Street Memo: the CIA chief and other CIA officials didn't believe that the WMD intelligence mattered, because was was coming one way or another.
"I doubt that Tenet would have said that Bush was fixing the intelligence," said a former CIA official. "But I think Dearlove was a very smart intelligence officer who could figure out what was going on. Plus, the MI6 station chief in Washington was in CIA headquarters all the time, with just about complete access to everything, and I am sure he was talking to a lot of people."
With the open borders in Iraq, how successful do you think the Iraqi army of 200,000 will be?
cicerone imposter wrote:With the open borders in Iraq, how successful do you think the Iraqi army of 200,000 will be?
Those borders are in process, albeit a slow and painstaking process, of being closed by both USA and Iraq military. The Iraq army will grow to whatever size it needs to grow in order to accomplish its mission.
You are a persistent rooter for failure in Iraq. Have you yet considered the consequences of failure in Iraq to your viability?
No, I'm only pointing out all the incompetence of this administration since the beginning of this war.
That has nothing to do with anybody's wish to see us fail in Iraq; only right-wingers think like you do. Anybody that disagrees with this administration is the enemy.
You have learned nothing about a democracy.
cicerone imposter wrote:No, I'm only pointing out all the incompetence of this administration since the beginning of this war.
That has nothing to do with anybody's wish to see us fail in Iraq; only right-wingers think like you do. Anybody that disagrees with this administration is the enemy.
You have learned nothing about a democracy.
Only left-wingers like you pretend like you do.
Only left-wingers like you pretend they believe that right-wingers think that anybody who dsagrees with the administration is the enemy.
Only left-wingers like you pretend that concentration on past alleged blunders is sufficient to produce a satisfactory future result.
Only left-wingers like you pretend that members of a democracy have little obligation to recommend and defend better ways to achieve a satisfactory future result.
Only left-wingers like you pretend that exercising free speech is the right thing to do in a democracy regardless of the content of the free speech.
Only left-wingers like you pretend they are rooting for our success when they are actually rooting for our failure.
Only left-wingers like you pretend like you do.
Only left-wingers like you pretend they believe that right-wingers think that anybody who dsagrees with the administration is the enemy.
We don't have to pretend; all the evidence of failure is for everybody to see. Only a blind mind can't see the chaos.
Only left-wingers like you pretend that concentration on past alleged blunders is sufficient to produce a satisfactory future result.
No, past failures and present failures speaks to how the future will progress; more failures. More dead American soldiers and more billions spent in Iraq that's really needed at home.
Only left-wingers like you pretend that members of a democracy have little obligation to recommend and defend better ways to achieve a satisfactory future result.
Members of a democracy do not attack a sovereign nation on exaggerated lies, and continue our occupation and to kill innocent Iraqis.
Only left-wingers like you pretend that exercising free speech is the right thing to do in a democracy regardless of the content of the free speech.
That's the only thing you have right! Congratulations.
Only left-wingers like you pretend they are rooting for our success when they are actually rooting for our failure.
How does one root for success in such a quagmire? 1) Insurgencies and killings have increased, 2) more people are getting killed around the world, 3) there's nothing close to a democracy in Iraq no matter how much you wish it, 4) Iran's influence in the south means more killings, and less chances for democracy, and 5) the majority of Iraqis want the US occupation to leave their country.
All this while Bush destroys our democracy at home, and many of the republicans in the administration and congresss are in panic because of the Abramoff investigation for crimes. That isn't even "pretend."
You wouldn't see the problems if your house was on fire.
A squad of Marines was driving up the highway between Basra and Baghdad. They came upon an Iraqi soldier badly injured and unconscious. Nearby, on the opposite side of the road, was an American Marine in a similar but less serious state. The Marine was conscious and alert. As first aid was given to both men, the Marine was asked what had happened.
The Marine reported; "I was heavily armed and moving north along the highway. Coming south was a heavily armed Iraqi soldier."
"What happened then?" the corpsman asked.
"I yelled to him that Saddam Hussein was a miserable piece of camel dung, and he yelled back: 'GWB is a miserable piece of horse droppings!' We were standing there shaking hands when a truck hit us."
cicerone imposter wrote:You wouldn't see the problems if your house was on fire.
You wouldn't know what I can see, if you could see.
