2
   

National ID Cards Are Coming - Smile!

 
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 11:08 am
CodeBorg wrote:
maporsche wrote:
Give me a break, if the businesses would pay the minimum wage, there would be employees willing to do the job. There are many unemployed CITIZENS in Arizona that would do this for min. wage. They don't offer the job at ANY wage, because the offer it to illegals. Citizens NEVER get the change to apply for this job, because it's not offered.


Exactly my point. And who is it that runs these businesses?


Crooked, theiving, CRIMINALS. Whomever hires an illegal should be tried and judged accordingly, just as the illegals are.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 11:11 am
au1929 wrote:
Brown
BS. Illegal is illegal. That means they have no legal right to be in this country. Why the hell do we bother making immigration laws if there is no need to obey them. Is it your belief that people from any point on the globe can come here and thumb their nose at our laws.


Au,

Do you drive the speed limit?

This line of argument is hypocritical because except when applied to immigrants, no American thinks of the law this way any other time.

America started with the Boston Tea Party, where the brave "illegal" patriots broke into a British ship to through tea in the harbor.

We celebrate the illegal "Underground Railroad" where illegal citizens harbored illegal runaway slaves.

During prohibition most Americans were illegal (what a disaster that was).

We celebrate the illegal bus rider Rosa Parks, who sparked the illegal civil rights movement.

I could go on.

The point is you are making a legalistic argument that you clearly don't believe.

Or do you drive the speed limit?
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 11:27 am
ebrown_p wrote:
au1929 wrote:
Brown
BS. Illegal is illegal. That means they have no legal right to be in this country. Why the hell do we bother making immigration laws if there is no need to obey them. Is it your belief that people from any point on the globe can come here and thumb their nose at our laws.


Au,

Do you drive the speed limit?

This line of argument is hypocritical because except when applied to immigrants, no American thinks of the law this way any other time.

America started with the Boston Tea Party, where the brave "illegal" patriots broke into a British ship to through tea in the harbor.

We celebrate the illegal "Underground Railroad" where illegal citizens harbored illegal runaway slaves.

During prohibition most Americans were illegal (what a disaster that was).

We celebrate the illegal bus rider Rosa Parks, who sparked the illegal civil rights movement.

I could go on.

The point is you are making a legalistic argument that you clearly don't believe.

Or do you drive the speed limit?


Well, I do drive the speed limit. But if I didn't that doesn't mean that I think other crimes should happen.

If I did speed, I would not complain about my punishment.
If I did murder, I would not complain about my punishment.
If I did cross the border illegally, I would not complain about my punishment.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 11:27 am
Codeborg.
Am I to understand that since American citizens break the law by hiring illegal aliens that is justification for them being allowed to remain in the US?
0 Replies
 
CodeBorg
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 11:29 am
3% of the American population is an illegal immigrant.
Plus, another 3% of the population is someone who illegally hires
an immigrant -- thus creating the market for them to be here.

So, 6% of our population needs to be enforced.
Or, as radical as it sounds, 6% of the population needs to be
officially managed, and included within our system and legal processes.


What prevents this? What is so difficult about being legal?
What gets in the way of someone coming here legally, that
7 million people accept the risk of being caught or abused instead?
0 Replies
 
CodeBorg
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 11:34 am
au1929 wrote:
Codeborg.
Am I to understand that since American citizens break the law by hiring illegal aliens that is justification for them being allowed to remain in the US?

No you are not to understand that, unless you wish to.
It might be a very nice straw-man for you to create, so you can certainly tackle the idea if you enjoy it!
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 11:39 am
CodeBorg wrote:
another 3% of the population is someone who illegally hires an immigrant


This is just completly false. I would say that less that 1% of BUSINESSES hire illegal aliens.

All you have to do is police those businesses, and send any immigrants you find packing.
0 Replies
 
CodeBorg
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 11:42 am
Which do you think gets more enforcement, punishment, and public attention - the businesses or the immigrants?

Which do you think makes more profit from the situation - the businesses or the immigrants?

If one business hires five immigrants, you could say that five crimes were committed. Should we focus on someone who does one crime, or someone who does five?
0 Replies
 
Algis Kemezys
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 11:47 am
Big brother is becoming a nusance.And unfortunately alot of this crap is being hoisted upon us by the so called enlightened christians. Like Busg who has systematically finalized alot of treacherous bills in the name of being a reborn christian. Boooooooooooo i say Boooooooooooo
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 11:55 am
Come on, guys. This is bigger than immigration.

Quote:
SEC. 203. LINKING OF DATABASES.

(a) In General- To be eligible to receive any grant or other type of financial assistance made available under this title, a State shall participate in the interstate compact regarding sharing of driver license data, known as the `Driver License Agreement', in order to provide electronic access by a State to information contained in the motor vehicle databases of all other States.

(b) Requirements for Information- A State motor vehicle database shall contain, at a minimum, the following information:

(1) All data fields printed on drivers' licenses and identification cards issued by the State.

(2) Motor vehicle drivers' histories, including motor vehicle violations, suspensions, and points on licenses



Quote:
Section 102 -
Amends the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (IIRIRA) to authorize the Secretary of Homeland Security (the Secretary), in the Secretary's sole discretion, to waive all laws as necessary to ensure expeditious construction of certain barriers and roads at the U.S. border. Prohibits courts, administrative agencies, and other entities from reviewing the Secretary's decision or from ordering relief for damages alleged to have resulted from such decision.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 11:58 am
Here's a rundown of th bill. i couldn't get eBrowns link to work.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 12:10 pm
ebrown_p
Your analogies if that is what they were are a bunch of crap. If I drive over the speed limit and am caught, I as everyone else, will pay the price. Same goes for DUI or any other illegal act.
As to the rest of your examples they were social problems within this nation that needed to be changed. As to Illegal alien, not immigrants, we have no responsibility or obligation. If they are caught they should be immediately deported. No questions asked. And those who knowingly employ them should pay the price.

Regarding prohibition, what the hell does that have to do with illegal aliens. Are you saying if citizens break the law it gives leave for illegals to break them as well. That is convoluted reasoning at it's worst.

A national ID card will take the excuse of I did not know away from the employers and will solve the problem. If illegals could not find work they would soon stop coming.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 12:15 pm
au
You have persuaded me we can't afford a national id card. Thanks.
0 Replies
 
CodeBorg
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 12:37 pm
Thanks Squinney,
It is a far-reaching bill that has many effects beyond what is claimed and advertised.



BTW, your link and ebrown's are both broken... maybe try
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.418:

and then we click on the third version listed, that says "[H.R.418.RFS]"
(The temporary location keeps moving, so it must be accessed from this particular webpage every time).
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 12:40 pm
ebrown,
I would suggest you actually contact the various local police departments along the border,and within 25 miles of it.
You will see that illegals are the MAIN cause of crime.
They commit home invasions,looking for ways to hide,they commit murders and then flee back across the border,they are a huge drain on hospital resources,especially county hospitals (contact University hospital in San Diego for yourself).You are extremely naive if you think that illegal immigrants are not a serious problem.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 01:13 pm
Au,

If you got caught speeding, and the punishment were to break up and uproot your family, you would most certainly complain. If I were to deny you medical care or your kids education because you are speeding you would most certainly complain.

The problem with your argument is its vindictiveness and cruelty. The crime of crossing the border to work to provide a good future for your family doesn't seem very serious compared to the hatred, fear and harshness it inspires.

It is part of our barbaric tribal nature that we are forgiving and compassionate to our own kind, but harsh and legalistic toward those others who are different. The families who are here working hard, raising their kids, paying taxes and contributing to our societies don't seem like the villains you paint them to be... even if they did cross the border <<gasp>> illegally.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 01:35 pm
Brown
I hate to say it but you are full of it. Your arguments are rediculous. How the hell can you equate speeding to entering the nation illegally. When these people came into the US they were fully aware of the risk they were taking. If they get caught they should pay the piper.

If you can't do the time don't do the crime.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 01:41 pm
I equate speeding with entering the country illegally because they are both illegal, and I know people who have done both.

I am close friends with people who have technically broken the law, yet live good lives, love their families, pay their taxes and contribute to their communities.

The harsh vindictive penalties that you want to put on my friends, who are better people than many citizens, make me angry. I am happy that undocumented immigrants are part of my community.

What about a little compassion. There are real terrorists who are worthy of your hatred.
0 Replies
 
brutalnaivety
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 01:48 pm
oh, ebrown...

Please allow me to dissect a sentence from your post above this one ^^.

Quote:
The problem with your argument is its vindictiveness and cruelty. The crime of crossing the border to work to provide a good future for your family doesn't seem very serious compared to the hatred, fear and harshness it inspires.


1) Under due process of the law, how is deporting a found illegal immigrant cruel? That seems just.

2) You seem to believe that a large proportion (but the way you worded it you suggests all) of these illegal immigrants come to America to provide a good future for their families. That's BS. They come here for the money, the money they can not make in Mexico and other South American countries. Money does not equate a decent home life. Stop obeying the money gods. And by the way, most of the illegal immigrants I know are single or dating, no families to speak of- that's just my world.

3) Hatred, fear and harshness will always be inspired when someone comes over to take what you have earned. I'm not saying that I have some special privilege to the American Dream, but I did earn what little part of it I do have. I vote. I served in the military. I stay current with politics, especially my local government. But just because anyone displays a hatred doesn't make them a bad person who thinks wrong. Au, I support your statement.

And directed to all,
4) No one has mentioned yet the sorry state of Mexican affairs. It's that country that is in shambles. Mexicans are fleeing their country at the expense of ours. ebrown, if you like the semi-relevance of the Boston Tea Party example, why do you suppose the Mexicans haven't taken any as drastic measures to overthrow the powers that make their country suck?

I'm against National ID's and I'm against illegal immigrants. Thank you.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Apr, 2005 01:48 pm
Brown
I do not give a damn whether they are your friends or not. They have no legal right to be in the US...
If you had a friend you thought highly of who was a second story man would that defend him from prosecution? Are laws to be selectively enforced.
0 Replies
 
 

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