Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

It's a supposition without any "hard" evidence. It's invisible; by any other name, it doesn't exist.

So is air and the wind.

thanks for the birthday wishes.

@spendius,

ID'ers let 1% of non-bullshit viable truth slip into their cockyeyed philosophy to make it more credible. Yeah, right.

It's probably closer to being like that soap, 99.99% pure.

Trouble is that the left-over percentage is a Lye.

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@Intrepid,

Happy Birthday, Intrepid.

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@spendius,

ID'ers let 1% of non-bullshit viable truth slip into their cockyeyed philosophy to make it more credible. Yeah, right.

It's probably closer to being like that soap, 99.99% pure.

Trouble is that the left-over percentage is a Lye.

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@Intrepid,

Not true; we know what makes up "air and wind," it's content and cause.

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@Lightwizard,

Quote:

ID'ers let 1% of non-bullshit viable truth slip into their cockyeyed philosophy to make it more credible. Yeah, right.

It's probably closer to being like that soap, 99.99% pure.

Trouble is that the left-over percentage is a Lye.

Bottom line, LW:

If there is a GOD...then ID is possible...even if the design is identical to what would happen if there were no GOD.

And that holds true even if EVERY word the IDers say is completely wrong!

Is that really that difficult a concept to comprehend?

Talk to me about this...do you truly not understand what I am saying there?

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@spendius,

Spendius,

The elementary point concerns "existence". If I take the view that the possible "existence of a designer" is independent of " me" then Frank has an argument of sorts. But this is naive realism coupled with the ad hoc catch-all concept of "the big controller". Darwinists would say that the evidence points to such a "designer" being a wasteful fool, rather than "intelligent".

If on the other hand I take the view that all "existence" involves relationship between "thinger" and "thinged", then " A God" exists for " a me" who things it and "evidence" will be found as a function of that relationship. Note also that "me's" exist also by virtue of their relationship to others. "Me the atheist" exists more by virtue of my negative relationship to "theistic others" rather than my negative relationship with "the God concept". That concept is rarely "thinged" by me.

Kuhn, by the way, points out that scientists are concerned with evolving paradigms, which draw on concepts concepts of "self consistency" , "elegance" and "predictive power" rather than "truth" for their adoption. Some argue that there is no "ontic reality" per se, only the projections and social interactions of consenting paradigm users (consenting me's).

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Not true; we know what makes up "air and wind," it's content and cause.

And I suppose before humans knew the "content and cause" of quarks...they didn't exist???

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@Frank Apisa,

No, Frank, it existed; humans just didn't have the knowledge to know. Humans also thought the earth was flat; doesn't make it true. We now have much more information about our environment, because of science. Knowledge will continue to increase, and never decrease.

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Bringing up hypothesis: Sir Francis Crick in "Astonishing Hypothesis: The Scientific Search for the Soul," Crick's controversial message, "You, your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no more than the behaviour of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules."

Meaning, also, it has no way to be "reborn," "float into purgatory," go "towards the light," "end up in the clouds," "get stuck in an extremely hot place below the Earth" but it is stuck in the same descriptive consciousness of those close to you who outlive you.

Believe it or not. I personally don't care if anyone does. I don't care if they want to believe in an ID, Allah, Shiva, Yahweh, Zeus, or the rest of the Nine Billions Names of God -- see Arthur C. Clark.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

And I suppose before humans knew the "content and cause" of quarks...they didn't exist???

Thats right Frank they didn't ! And like "phlogiston", the "ether", and "the four humours of the body" they may cease to "exist" in due course.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Your hypotheticals works like this: I don't know, so my guess is maybe.
My hypotheticals works like this: I don't see it, so it doesn't exist for me. When I see it, I'll believe it.

Quote:

... that is not how hypotheticals work.

There clearly is hypothesizing going on in those two sentences, Frank.

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@fresco,

Quote:

Thats right Frank they didn't ! And like "phlogiston", the "ether", and "the four humours of the body" they may cease to "exist" in due course.

You know that for a fact, right asshole....or it is just a part of that ridiculous belief system of yours?????

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@JTT,

Quote:

There clearly is hypothesizing going on in those two sentences, Frank.

Go **** yourself!

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

No, Frank, it existed; humans just didn't have the knowledge to know. Humans also thought the earth was flat; doesn't make it true. We now have much more information about our environment, because of science. Knowledge will continue to increase, and never decrease.

Yeah...and some humans are ignorant enough to assert there can be no gods...but that doesn't make it so.

Knowledge cannot help but increase with you...because you have damn near none of it.

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@Frank Apisa,

Hey, Frank, you remind me of the period in my life when I was in the military about six decades ago. LOL

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@cicerone imposter,

TIME OUT:

I just saw your post to Foxfyre in the other thread.

I was in SAC during the 50's...1956 & 1957. My best buddy was stationed at Enewetak during the H tests.

You mentioned that you dealt with weapons.

Where were you?

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@Frank Apisa,

Does this help you feel less isolated Frank?

Professor Basil Willey, Fellow of Pembroke College and King Edward VII Professor of English Literature in the University of Cambridge wrote the following in 1964 in his book The English Moralists. He is writing about David Hume and anything in speech marks are Hume's words.

Quote:

With an unruffled calm of manner which was at once a gift of his age and the index of his own equable temper, he exorcized from the intellectual world all the surviving philosophic ghosts. Indeed, the light he turns upon the universe is so strong that it becomes ' dark with excessive bright' -- for, as everyone knows, his philosophical enquiries ended in scepticism. If there is any 'external world', any 'causation', we do not strictly 'know' it; neither do we 'know' anything of God, or the soul. All that is given us is a series of mental events : 'impressions' and 'ideas'. Popular religion is of course imposture, but even the 'natural religion', the philosophical Theism of the enlightened, is a mere surmise, incapable of demonstration.

It may be said that, by using reason to destroy reason---by showing how, when given fullest play, it stultifies itself in scepticism---Hume acheived a reductio ad absurdum of rationalism, and demonstrated, better than any (eighteenth century) bishop could have done, than man cannot (or does not) live by 'reason' alone.

I have felt on this thread as you seem to feel for four years and I agree with everything you have said about the silly sods I have been debating with. They are the silliest sods I have ever come across gathered in one place in my entire life. Even the pub doesn't concentrate silly soddery to the viscosity levels I have experienced on here.

It is exactly the same with any enclosed system of status symbols. The form is irrelevant. The substance is always the same. "I'm different and I'm special." You have to get past that to knock some sense into the silly fuckers.

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@spendius,

Quote:

Does this help you feel less isolated Frank?

Yeah, it does, Spendius. Thanks. I truly hope to get to make the trip across the pond before disposing of this mortal coil...and one of the things I'd love to do is share some conversation over a pint at an authentic Pub. We have fakes over here...interesting and enjoyable fakes...but fakes nonetheless.

Quote:

You have to get past that to knock some sense into the silly fuckers.

Ya really can't do that. They've got concrete for heads. But I enjoy the action. And I am having a ball today. Twisted Evil

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Hey, Frank, you remind me of the period in my life when I was in the military about six decades ago

Was it in the bedding stores at Fort Baxter?

Colonel Hall's secretary was in the military.

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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

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