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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Wed 19 Oct, 2005 09:01 am
spendius,

You are wandering far outside the subject.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 19 Oct, 2005 09:08 am
wande-

There's nearly 21,000 views of this thread.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 19 Oct, 2005 09:32 am
wande-

No I'm not.The scientist does not have all the answers and to pretend he does is ridiculous.We have parliamentary ethics committees to keep them in check.

I would claim that you refuse to engage with the subject except in a trite and abstract manner.

But a jury would notice your reticence on the crucial questions.Perhaps the Board president departed because of his frustration with his own delicacies and the other side's refusal to admit to them whilst agreeing with them in their own lives.
I would have banged my fist on the table and shouted "Do you lot not know what evolution science means?Do you not know the cause of neuroses?Better they believe a fairy story than spend their lives in either hypocrisy or the jungle."

It was record of the jungle that Darwin studied.What the hell does a jungle have to do with
"God bless America"?Proper scientists are less than 0.1% of the population despite the claims of coat-tailers.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Wed 19 Oct, 2005 10:08 am
Quote:
Intelligent design holds that some aspects of life can't be explained by evolutionary theory and are best attributed to an unseen designer.

"The challenge for us is that some of the public is being confused by this intelligent design thing," said Kirk Johnson, chief curator at the Denver Museum of Nature & Science.

"Intelligent design is clearly not a scientific theory. It's sort of anti-science, in a way, because it says that the world is too complicated, too hard to figure out, so there must be a supernatural answer."

"It's the opposite of science."

Physical anthropologist Eugenie Scott
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 19 Oct, 2005 10:38 am
dys-

I'm sorry to have to say it but that stuff has been gone over ad nauseum.It is another simple variation on the "Yes it is"/"No it isn't" style of debate.

One presumes that the curator is not part of the "some of the public" which is confused.He must be one of the chosen elite I suppose.Does he support this confused section of the public having a vote.

What is your estimate of the number of people this "some of the public" consists of?Some of the public are confused about how to get their trousers on.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Wed 19 Oct, 2005 04:30 pm
spendius wrote:
dys-

I'm sorry to have to say it but that stuff has been gone over ad nauseum.It is another simple variation on the "Yes it is"/"No it isn't" style of debate.


Spendi, you seem to think that the question of whether ID is science or not is debatable. It's not.

ID is not science by definition. There is no debate. It fails the basic premise of science by exceeding the bounds of naturalism (it fails in other ways as well). If you want to debate the value of naturalism to the science, that's fine, but you can't debate the definition of science itself.

The only people who are attempting to debate ID as science refuse to acknowledge the definition of science itself. They are attempting (as noted in court transcripts) to remove naturalism from the definition. If they do that, *then* ID will be scientific, and *then* we can debate it's relative merit among other scientific theories.

Of course, if they remove natualism from the structure of science, then I have a Scientific All Powerful Magic Elf theory which is going to be VERY hard to disprove.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 19 Oct, 2005 05:07 pm
ros-

Are you assuming that there is no science of the "inner man".That the beliefs are not similar to the benches and equipment and parquet floors etc which one sees in science laboratories.

You have nearly 300 million human brains and you have to get the best out of them.Do you think telling them that they are just fancy monkeys and meaningless to boot is going to do that?

I'm looking forward to hearing more details about your All Powerful Magic Elf.It sounds great.Will I be able to do it when you've explained it?

If I was counsel for the Dover Schools Board I reckon I could win this case easy.If the ones they have lose it I would reckon they took a dive.

Is there a jury or just a judge?
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Wed 19 Oct, 2005 05:50 pm
spendius,

there really is no jury in the dover trial. i told you that before. the judge alone will make a decision. you can verify this for yourself by entering "kitzmiller v. dover area school district" on google.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Wed 19 Oct, 2005 09:49 pm
spendius wrote:
ros-

Are you assuming that there is no science of the "inner man".That the beliefs are not similar to the benches and equipment and parquet floors etc which one sees in science laboratories.


Science of the "inner man". What the heck are you talking about?
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 20 Oct, 2005 04:23 am
ros-

I don't know but I've heard a lot about the "inner man".

Maybe it has something to do with supporting your town's football team or thinking something happened at a wedding or getting a bit full up listening to Barry Manilow records or all that stuff you might tell a psychiatrist or behaving abnormally at the festive season or thinking you've grown in stature wearing an expensive necklace.
How would I know-I'm a materialist and if everybody was like me the Dow Jones would be in single figures and unemployment would be 70% at least.And there'd be no case in Dover because there'd be no schools.
How about it being what gives meaning to people's lives over and above eating,sleeping,defecating and occasionally fornicating which is about all monkeys do.Oh-and fighting.

What's art without the "inner man".Where does that stuff Mozart did,and Proust and Flaubert come from if not an "inner man" and does it not take an "inner man" to find it beautiful.And if we accept that there is such a thing as the "inner man" could there not be a science of the management of 300 million "inner men and women and children" which sought to maximise some aim and where would funding for physical science come from if there was no transcendent aim and if you study the Gothic you'll find that it is just such a transcendent aim which got science moving and such an aim was absent in previous cultures.Find me one Rembrandt in all the art of all pre-existent cultures and I'll show by bare ass in Macy's window.

But that's all easy.What the hell is the All Powerful Magic Elf?
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 20 Oct, 2005 07:28 am
Today's issue of York Daily Record includes an opinion essay by Mike Argento. Below is an excerpt from the essay about Dr. Behe's testimony in the last three days:
Quote:
And that's how it went as the participants in this exercise finally bid farewell to Dr. Michael Behe, a Lehigh University biochemist who is one of the top intelligent design jihadists. He was on the stand, officially, for three days. It only seemed a lot longer.
At one point, rationalizing why he hasn't produced any peer-reviewed articles in science journals, Behe said his book, "Darwin's Black Box," had been peer-reviewed. Under cross-examination, he said he had suggested the reviewers to his publisher. The publisher, though, picked another on his own, Behe said.
The reviewer, chosen by the book's editor because his wife had taken a class from him, was a biochemist in the veterinary school of the University of Pennsylvania.
Veterinary school?
OK, anyway, the guy did review the book.
Sort of.
The guy wrote an article, produced by Rothschild, about his involvement with "Darwin's Black Box" after it came out, saying his review consisted of a 10-minute phone conversation with the book's editor. He said it sounded "interesting."
So, what came of Behe's three days on the witness stand?
He said some of the stuff in cells and such is designed because it looks like it was designed. But there's other stuff that looks designed that wasn't designed. And yet there's other stuff, we don't know what it is and you probably don't want to know.
Oh, and the identity of the designer doesn't matter. Could be God, or a cosmic Versace, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
At one point, Rothschild asked Behe whether he thought the human body was "a beautiful structure."
Behe paused.
"I'm thinking of examples," he said.
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 20 Oct, 2005 07:50 am
wande-

My sympathies go out to the poor readers of the York Daily Record.

Why the? after Veterinary School.We are dealing with monkeys aren't we?

BTW-Who owns the YDR?How did Argento get his job?
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 20 Oct, 2005 08:14 am
York Daily Record is the only local newspaper for residents in Dover, Pennsylvania. Dover is in York County. Other towns in York County have names like "Weigelstown".
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 20 Oct, 2005 09:03 am
I just read an article by a proper journalist about oil running out and a scientific adviser to your Gov't,and oil industry expert,when asked for a solution suggested praying.

The sands are running out for science.

Spengler's famous prediction of a "second religiousness" is going to come true.It's only a question of when.Some say 10 years to a total financial collapse.

The Dover Board might be at the cutting edge of modern thinking.Seeking to prepare children for a world you lot have totally f****d up.

Do you drive a gas guzzler wande.It's gonna be junk soon.Make the most of it.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 20 Oct, 2005 09:19 am
spendius,

Another journalist has written a book called "The Republican War on Science". The attitude you describe may be true among some conservatives in the United States but is not generally true about the United States.
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 20 Oct, 2005 09:54 am
wande-

All I was pointing out is that it's a bet.When the stock markets tailspins if 3% growth targets are missed you have a scientific proof that,assuming energy sources are limited at prices the masses can afford,it's going to blow.

According to some science one gallon of gas is the equivalent of 500 man hours of work and the one is $2 and the other is 500 times whatever.($20 is it).You can call that progress if you like but it is betting.It certainly can't continue indefinitely.

You once again didn't answer the questions about the YDR.

Did you see my little jaunt around the "inner man"?
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 20 Oct, 2005 10:03 am
wandeljw wrote:
York Daily Record is the only local newspaper for residents in Dover, Pennsylvania. Dover is in York County. Other towns in York County have names like "Weigelstown".

The above was my answer to your question. You may have missed it.
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 20 Oct, 2005 10:29 am
Gee wande-

You scientists.

I asked who owned the YDR and how did Argento get his job?

Is it an industrial area?
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 20 Oct, 2005 10:45 am
spendius,

Dover is in a rural area. Parts of York County are uninhabited (an opportunity for you to create Spenditown).

I am sorry but I do not know the answers to your other questions.
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 20 Oct, 2005 12:38 pm
wande-

Me?Create anything.You must be joking.I'd sooner snooze.

Are they backward-you know-yokels.Like in Deliverance?

It struck me last night to ask why don't they just fire the Board?How does somebody get on the Board and can they be shifted once on.

We have Govenors.At least I think that's what they are called.They are basically stupid busy-bodies.At the school I went to the priests would have given such nonsense the bum's rush.We only ever saw parents on Prize giving night and sport's day.Father Xxxxxxx,the chief,made a speech telling them what a fine bunch of lads we were.He was taking the piss of course.Obviously there were no sissy girls and hence we all thought girls were magical ,exotic creatures;a habit of thought I still haven't entirely eradicated despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
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