Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

@Lightwizard,

Unfortunately, our judges come from the same group that are pushing for ID in our science classes.

@cicerone imposter,

What judges? How can a judge push an agenda for legislation? I'd sure like to know their names. Not to reiterate that a conservative Republican judge shot down the ID case in Dover and basically established a legal precedent. The Alabama law is only flirting with actually letting teachers bring religious "theories" into the classroom without repercussion. My case is I don't know of any teacher or student who has been punished, much less prosecuted, for mentioning it and as far as the other side, the Monkey Case is far in our past.

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@Lightwizard,

No, it's not the judges who pushes for legislation, but he/she decides what becomes law. There are "enough" conservative judges who sit on the bench who also believes in ID. That's the point I was making.

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@Lightwizard,

Quote:

Not to reiterate that a conservative Republican judge shot down the ID case in Dover and basically established a legal precedent.

Yeah. That's true. It's called the "dip your bread in boys" principle. What's the point of a legal establishment otherwise? There can be no legal disputes using science. Everything is cut and dried, read off instruments and certain.

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@cicerone imposter,

I believe that if it were tested in the courts even with conservative judges, the results would be the same -- it would end up in the state supreme courts right up to the USSC. It didn't get that far in Dover -- if you read the conservative Republican's final case essay, it is cut-and-dried that you can believe in ID as a religious concept but it doesn't belong in a science class. The "ID scientists" were actually made a laughing stock and the voters in Dover got rid of the local politicians who started the whole mess. That's not to say it couldn't get a foothold in example of Alabama, but like I stated, that's basically an unnecessary and toothless law to the point of being silly.

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@Lightwizard,

Youre right about that Wiz, The Dover "beachhead" by the Discovery Institute became a failuer shortly after the case was filed. They discovered that there wsnt the stomach to continue on should they lose, so the DI actually backed its presence away from the case but still let their reps testify. Thats how Behe and Dembski testified , they mentioned that they were affiliated with DI, BUT , that this affiliation wasnt the reason that they were there. Behe was payed by tyhe THomas More law center .

Now in ALabama, I think that theres enough zeal and "ole time religious fervor" to carry the case on to an appeal, and even to USSC. The wording is sort of (IMHO) just shy of being establishment clause worthy.

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@farmerman,

It could easily go that direction. I always laugh about the lame borrowing of "Discovery" from the Discovery Channel and Magazine by these clowns to make it look legitimate. Another mess they got themselves into at Dover was trying to sneak the Panda textbook into the classrooms with stealth -- the teachers turned them in.

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@rosborne979,

Quote:

Section 1. This law shall be known as the "Academic Freedom Act."

meaning:You are now free to teach ID in science class

Quote:

Section 2. The Legislature finds that existing law does not expressly protect the right of teachers identified by the United States Supreme Court in Edwards v. Aguillard to present scientific critiques of prevailing scientific theories.

Meaning: while youre at it, you can also teach CReationism in science classes

Quote:

Section 3. Every K-12 public school teacher or teacher or instructor in any two-year or four-year public institution of higher education, or in any graduate or adult program thereof, in the State of Alabama, shall have the affirmative right and freedom to present scientific information pertaining to the full range of scientific views in any curricula or course of learning.

meaning: so long as this information is presented in weird middle English text and shall be presented within chapters and verses of a Bible

Quote:

Section 4. No K-12 public school teacher or teacher or instructor in any two-year or four-year public institution of higher education, or in any graduate or adult program thereof, in the State of Alabama, shall be terminated, disciplined, denied tenure, or otherwise discriminated against for presenting scientific information pertaining to the full range of scientific views in any curricula or course of learning, provided, with respect to K-12 teachers, the Alabama Course of Study for Science has been taught as appropriate to the grade and subject assignment.

meaning: so long as you present the course of study mandated by the state BOE FIRST, you are then free to present alternative theories or hypotheses, such as Biblical Creation, aliens, or Flying Spaghetti MOnsters

Quote:

Section 6. Nothing in this act shall be construed as requiring or encouraging any change in the state curriculum standards in K-12 public schools, nor shall any provision of this act be construed as prescribing the curricular content of any course in any two-year or four-year public institution of higher education in the state.

. Meaning: after all, we may be religious zealots but we aint nuts. I mean dude, our teachers sometimes go to conventions in other states and theyd never stop laughing at our faculty members

Quote:

Section 7. Nothing in this act shall be construed as protecting as scientific any view that lacks published empirical or observational support or that has been soundly refuted by empirical or observational science in published scientific debate. Likewise, the protection provided by this act shall not be restricted by any metaphysical or religious implications of a view, so long as the views are defensible from and justified by empirical science and observation of the natural world.

meaning: remember all the above **** we wrote? well forget it because we cant prove anything. We has now disappeared up our own assholes.

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Well- I told effemm that years ago. He's a bit slow on the uptake. You have to male allowances folks.

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Remember on NOVA this very Evening. The presentation of an "Alternative theory" Intelligent Design. Its about the Dover Trial

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@farmerman,

I think I saw that. It's been overtaken by talk of meltdown and being an hour away from global financial catastrophe. Maybe effemm hasn't heard. One of our ministers is saying the worst for over a hundred years. Get ploughing farmer. Darwin is yesterdays cold tripe and onions.

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OH ****, the goddam right wing Christian Conservative Cable Company decided to sut the sound from the Nova SHow. Our cable company is ver Christian (and home shopping ) oriented. I wonder if theres a connection?

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@farmerman,

I saw the Nova months ago -- it's a repeat and a very good documentary. They let it unfold like a mystery with all the ID/Creationism Red Herrings showing up like sore thumbs. We can have a natural world meltdown which is why creating green jobs is a good idea. I saw it on LA's PBS station KCET and then on KOCE Orange Country PBS and there was no interruption even though that station is also owned by a conservative Christian organization. There are many Christians that do not believe any religious concepts should be taught in schools.

These laws are written by attorneys which control most legislative bodies in the US, but it was even worse during the birth of our country.
There are loopholes which make the law ridiculous when analyzed by any smart, rational person and, like I stated, I believe they are playing with the same fire as the Dover group. The legislation get almost 90% bad press. They could be spawning a teacher's revolt.

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@farmerman,

Then, why not teach evolution in church? Actually, there are some Methodist, Episcopalian and even Catholic churches where Darwin and evolution is brought into the mix.

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I think "Breathtaking Inanity" is going to be the millstone that turns into their gravestone. They'll never escape that phrase from the Dover trial.

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@rosborne979,

If you pile up enough inanities, you don't get the Empire State Building, you get a Toys R Us store.

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The cable feed had been interrupted and the show proceeded without sound for about one half hour when it was returned. Yeh, it was the repeat of the same show that first aired last spring, oh well.

Im hoping that, during this year, there will be some other, enlightened shows on PBS or some of the SCience Channels re Darwins work and modern evolutionary synthesis. MAybe these shows dont have a large popularity except for a bunch of folks like we. Ive visited several evo/devo blogs and they are always loaded with back and forth vituperation. Our own (A2K) ID and evolution lines are seemingly much less mean spirited.

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No less inane though (from certain well-known posters).

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@farmerman,

There's been an up-to-date mini-series on PBS a few years back in four parts that covered evolution past Darwin and it's social implications quite thoroughly. I have it on an old VHS. It also explores one of the theological schools which have classes on evoltution.

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This is the initial one I found, but not the series I was writing about:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/origins/

It includes a conversation With Neil deGrasse Tyson who has virtually taken over the spot held by the late Carl Sagan as the spokesman for cosmology and evolution, among the other sciences.

The other two hour special I found:

http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=3009351

Here's the one I was writing about, narrated by Liam Neeson:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0318218/

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