I do not see how it is possible to have an authentic sense of humour without being a misogynist. I've seen women in hysterical fits of laughter watching Max Wall perform. And Carry On movies have no other subject.
@spendius,
I love it when someone steps into quicksand and then tries to save themselves by taking hold of a branch that isn't attached to a tree.
@Lightwizard,
I don't. That's not funny at all. The sort of laughter that produces has been shown by psychologists to be a socially acceptable version of a snarl.
Charlie Drake falling down the laundry chute in the nurses accomodation unit is funny.
@Lightwizard,
The reason it isn't attached to a tree is because it's a rose bush - with thorns.
@cicerone imposter,
It was over Spendi's head so I don't think he could even reach the branch and it isn't meant to be funny. So go ahead with the psycho snarl.
@Lightwizard,
I did think it was an attempt at a metaphor signifying that in debating with you I had stepped into quicksand and that I had tried to win the point by reaching for an explanation you don't accept.
But as such an analysis is based on your assertions that it is a quicksand into which I am sinking and that the branch I had reached for was invalid without any further justifications beyond your say so I dismissed it as unworthy of your intelligence as it is a form of the Idiot Wind blowing in a circle round your skull and hence I took it that you meant it literally and enjoyed the sight of people slipping on banana skins.
You made no attempt to dispute my point that misogyny, which is always ironic and, as Ms Pomeroy stated is a sign of affection, is the world's principle grounding of a genuine sense of humour and for which I gave two very well known examples and could easily have given many more. Laurel and Hardy, W.C. Fields, Popeye and Jack Benny for a start and if you want more I'll do them at a dollar a throw.
Don't try disguising self-reassuring assertions with me. I can spot them out in space you silly sod. Try not to underestimate everybody LW. You will be amazed how much more you will enjoy life.
It is an abiding characteristic of po-faced, presbyterian, pompous assholes that they underestimate everybody and it isn't much of a step from there to the underestimation the function of religion in the lives of every culture that has ever been known.
@spendius,
mrs steve has just said she has no idea what spendy is on about but "WIN SOME PIES".
@Steve 41oo,
Steve-- you shouldn't let your wife read my posts. I might inadvertently slip in the Sir James Frazer jest to Frank Harris about the blue-bottomed monkey thinking I am in male company.
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:These culture wars outbreaks have turned into a large regional "Whack-A-Mole" game. We have but to wait to see where the next attempts at anti-science will surface.
Where will the mole pop up next?
Antievolution legislation in Alabama
* February 6th, 2009
* Alabama
House Bill 300, introduced in the Alabama House of Representatives on February 3, 2009, by David Grimes (R-District 73) and referred to the House Education Policy Committee, is the latest in a string of "academic freedom" bills aimed at undermining the teaching of evolution. Previous such bills in Alabama -- HB 923 (which Grimes also sponsored) in 2008; HB 106 and SB 45 in 2006; HB 352, SB 240, and HB 716 in 2005; HB 391 and SB 336 in 2004 -- failed to win passage. In 2004, a cosponsor of SB 336 told the Montgomery Advertiser (February 18, 2004), "This bill will level the playing field because it allows a teacher to bring forward the biblical creation story of humankind." The text of HB 300 as introduced follows.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF ALABAMA:
Section 1. This law shall be known as the "Academic Freedom Act."
Section 2. The Legislature finds that existing law does not expressly protect the right of teachers identified by the United States Supreme Court in Edwards v. Aguillard to present scientific critiques of prevailing scientific theories. The Legislature further finds that existing law does not expressly protect the right of students to hold a position on views. It is the intent of the Legislature that this act expressly protects those rights.
Section 3. Every K-12 public school teacher or teacher or instructor in any two-year or four-year public institution of higher education, or in any graduate or adult program thereof, in the State of Alabama, shall have the affirmative right and freedom to present scientific information pertaining to the full range of scientific views in any curricula or course of learning.
Section 4. No K-12 public school teacher or teacher or instructor in any two-year or four-year public institution of higher education, or in any graduate or adult program thereof, in the State of Alabama, shall be terminated, disciplined, denied tenure, or otherwise discriminated against for presenting scientific information pertaining to the full range of scientific views in any curricula or course of learning, provided, with respect to K-12 teachers, the Alabama Course of Study for Science has been taught as appropriate to the grade and subject assignment.
Section 5. Students may be evaluated based upon their understanding of course materials, but no student in any public school or institution of higher education, shall be penalized in any way because he or she may subscribe to a particular position on any views.
Section 6. The rights and privileges contained in this act apply when topics are taught that may generate controversy, such as biological or chemical origins. Nothing in this act shall be construed as requiring or encouraging any change in the state curriculum standards in K-12 public schools, nor shall any provision of this act be construed as prescribing the curricular content of any course in any two-year or four-year public institution of higher education in the state.
Section 7. Nothing in this act shall be construed as protecting as scientific any view that lacks published empirical or observational support or that has been soundly refuted by empirical or observational science in published scientific debate. Likewise, the protection provided by this act shall not be restricted by any metaphysical or religious implications of a view, so long as the views are defensible from and justified by empirical science and observation of the natural world.
Section 8. Nothing in this act shall be construed as promoting any religious doctrine, promoting discrimination for or against a particular set of religious beliefs, or promoting discrimination for or against religion or non-religion.
Section 9. This act shall become effective on the first day of the third month following its passage and approval by the Governor, or its otherwise becoming law.
@rosborne979,

That's a rather toothless law but I'm glad it was posted by one of the many people on this forum I do not underestimate. How many teachers will actually take advantage of being able to bring up Creationism/ID and go over the non-empirical and non-observational debating of the
natural sciences by the quack scientists, of say, the "Discovery" organization? How many teachers have been fired, denied teaching science, ridiculed or whatever without the law? What happened in Texas was that the "law" was ignored with zero ramifications, but I imagine if a teacher were asked the question about any religious alternative to evolution or cosmology, they would have to excuse themselves as not being theologians and advise the student(s) to attend their chosen church to learn the religious viewpoints. Curiously, I never heard any student bring up the question in any science course I took at university but once in anthropology and that's exactly how the teacher responded. He didn't ask the student to go to the principals office nor have him expelled. Carl Sagan in "Cosmos" did bring up the idea that religions could be reconciled with the sciences. However, that was
all religions, not just Christian. Akbar the Great would have endorsed that.
"In the beginning there was nothing. God said, 'Let there be light!' And there was light. There was still nothing, but you could see it a whole lot better."
- Ellen DeGeneres
@Steve 41oo,
spendi talks in riddles all the time; it's up to us to translate them into recognizable form. LOL
@cicerone imposter,
"Win some pies" refers to a raffle at the pie shop below Sweeney Todd's barber shop.
@Lightwizard,
But what's the source for that info? Book, movie or elsewhere?
@cicerone imposter,
Heres a bit of pre birthday celebration from this mornings NYT
Quote: Darwinism Must Die So That Evolution May Live
By CARL SAFINA
Published: February 9, 2009
“You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat-catching,” Robert Darwin told his son, “and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.” Yet the feckless boy is everywhere. Charles Darwin gets so much credit, we can’t distinguish evolution from him.
Equating evolution with Charles Darwin ignores 150 years of discoveries, including most of what scientists understand about evolution. Such as: Gregor Mendel’s patterns of heredity (which gave Darwin’s idea of natural selection a mechanism " genetics " by which it could work); the discovery of DNA (which gave genetics a mechanism and lets us see evolutionary lineages); developmental biology (which gives DNA a mechanism); studies documenting evolution in nature (which converted the hypothetical to observable fact); evolution’s role in medicine and disease (bringing immediate relevance to the topic); and more.
By propounding “Darwinism,” even scientists and science writers perpetuate an impression that evolution is about one man, one book, one “theory.” The ninth-century Buddhist master Lin Chi said, “If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.” The point is that making a master teacher into a sacred fetish misses the essence of his teaching. So let us now kill Darwin.
That all life is related by common ancestry, and that populations change form over time, are the broad strokes and fine brushwork of evolution. But Darwin was late to the party. His grandfather, and others, believed new species evolved. Farmers and fanciers continually created new plant and animal varieties by selecting who survived to breed, thus handing Charles Darwin an idea. All Darwin perceived was that selection must work in nature, too.
In 1859, Darwin’s perception and evidence became “On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or The Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle for Life.” Few realize he published 8 books before and 10 books after “Origin.” He wrote seminal books on orchids, insects, barnacles and corals. He figured out how atolls form, and why they’re tropical.
Credit Darwin’s towering genius. No mind ran so freely, so widely or so freshly over the hills and vales of existence. But there’s a limit to how much credit is reasonable. Parking evolution with Charles Darwin overlooks the limits of his time and all subsequent progress.
Science was primitive in Darwin’s day. Ships had no engines. Not until 1842, six years after Darwin’s Beagle voyage, did Richard Owen coin the term “dinosaur.” Darwin was an adult before scientists began debating whether germs caused disease and whether physicians should clean their instruments. In 1850s London, John Snow fought cholera unaware that bacteria caused it. Not until 1857 did Johann Carl Fuhlrott and Hermann Schaaffhausen announce that unusual bones from the Neander Valley in Germany were perhaps remains of a very old human race. In 1860 Louis Pasteur performed experiments that eventually disproved “spontaneous generation,” the idea that life continually arose from nonliving things.
Science has marched on. But evolution can seem uniquely stuck on its founder. We don’t call astronomy Copernicism, nor gravity Newtonism. “Darwinism” implies an ideology adhering to one man’s dictates, like Marxism. And “isms” (capitalism, Catholicism, racism) are not science. “Darwinism” implies that biological scientists “believe in” Darwin’s “theory.” It’s as if, since 1860, scientists have just ditto-headed Darwin rather than challenging and testing his ideas, or adding vast new knowledge.
Using phrases like “Darwinian selection” or “Darwinian evolution” implies there must be another kind of evolution at work, a process that can be described with another adjective. For instance, “Newtonian physics” distinguishes the mechanical physics Newton explored from subatomic quantum physics. So “Darwinian evolution” raises a question: What’s the other evolution?
Into the breach: intelligent design. I am not quite saying Darwinism gave rise to creationism, though the “isms” imply equivalence. But the term “Darwinian” built a stage upon which “intelligent” could share the spotlight.
Charles Darwin didn’t invent a belief system. He had an idea, not an ideology. The idea spawned a discipline, not disciples. He spent 20-plus years amassing and assessing the evidence and implications of similar, yet differing, creatures separated in time (fossils) or in space (islands). That’s science.
That’s why Darwin must go.
Almost everything we understand about evolution came after Darwin, not from him. He knew nothing of heredity or genetics, both crucial to evolution. Evolution wasn’t even Darwin’s idea.
Darwin’s grandfather Erasmus believed life evolved from a single ancestor. “Shall we conjecture that one and the same kind of living filaments is and has been the cause of all organic life?” he wrote in “Zoonomia” in 1794. He just couldn’t figure out how.
Charles Darwin was after the how. Thinking about farmers’ selective breeding, considering the high mortality of seeds and wild animals, he surmised that natural conditions acted as a filter determining which individuals survived to breed more individuals like themselves. He called this filter “natural selection.” What Darwin had to say about evolution basically begins and ends right there. Darwin took the tiniest step beyond common knowledge. Yet because he perceived " correctly " a mechanism by which life diversifies, his insight packed sweeping power.
But he wasn’t alone. Darwin had been incubating his thesis for two decades when Alfred Russel Wallace wrote to him from Southeast Asia, independently outlining the same idea. Fearing a scoop, Darwin’s colleagues arranged a public presentation crediting both men. It was an idea whose time had come, with or without Darwin.
Darwin penned the magnum opus. Yet there were weaknesses. Individual variation underpinned the idea, but what created variants? Worse, people thought traits of both parents blended in the offspring, so wouldn’t a successful trait be diluted out of existence in a few generations? Because Darwin and colleagues were ignorant of genes and the mechanics of inheritance, they couldn’t fully understand evolution.
Gregor Mendel, an Austrian monk, discovered that in pea plants inheritance of individual traits followed patterns. Superiors burned his papers posthumously in 1884. Not until Mendel’s rediscovered “genetics” met Darwin’s natural selection in the “modern synthesis” of the 1920s did science take a giant step toward understanding evolutionary mechanics. Rosalind Franklin, James Watson and Francis Crick bestowed the next leap: DNA, the structure and mechanism of variation and inheritance.
Darwin’s intellect, humility (“It is always advisable to perceive clearly our ignorance”) and prescience astonish more as scientists clarify, in detail he never imagined, how much he got right.
But our understanding of how life works since Darwin won’t swim in the public pool of ideas until we kill the cult of Darwinism. Only when we fully acknowledge the subsequent century and a half of value added can we really appreciate both Darwin’s genius and the fact that evolution is life’s driving force, with or without Darwin.
Giving any credit to Grandaddy Erasmus for mentioning the concept of transmutation of species is like saying that Arthur Clarke invented satellites because he mentioned them in a story. Crediting someone like Erasmus (or even Wallace) sells Charles DArwin very short. DARWIN didnt come up with the concept of evolution, he came up with natural selection. He devised and proposed a mechanism that noone ever thought of.
Today, with epigenetics giving some creedence to Lamark, and gene flow and drift and panmixis becoming more important than mere adaptation (maybe), and knowing about "fossil genes", Darwin IS a bit dated (IMHO). However, we shouldnt abandon the ole boy, we should honor him like we do Newton. Remembering that Newton provided the shoulder for Einstein to stand on.
@cicerone imposter,
That was meant to be funny sarcasm. But, okay!
Love the NYT article and it isn't the first time I've read that same opinion.
It's like looking at the original foundation of the Empire State Building and stating it's the entire edifice.
@Lightwizard,
But it will continue to be a struggle between the creation of god vs Darwin's evolution. Never mind that nobody can provide any evidence there is a god.
@cicerone imposter,
That's mainly because the ID nitwits keep going back to the Darwinian foundation, ignoring the building. The building is there and standing on it's own. They are intellectual terrorist who want to fly a plane into it.
@Lightwizard,
Lightwizard wrote: 
That's a rather toothless law ...
It seemed rather toothless to me as well. But as FM has observed before, the basic strategy from the ICR now seems to be "death by a thousand paper cuts".
@rosborne979,
They are flaunting the law of attrition and it's going to come back and bite them. They are setting it up to go into the court system and get shot down for all time. Any judge that would accept these religious concepts as science would have to be out of their minds.
No teacher or student that I know of has been punished for bringing up Creationism or ID in a classroom.