97
   

Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 8 Jul, 2008 04:32 pm
Thanks for the Court Filing there Wandel. I started reading and was amazed at how "in plain English" this filing is. Im used to these things being written in ponderous prose with too much legal jargon. Could it be that Texas has rules that require such briefs to be clear to the general public?


He asked.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Tue 8 Jul, 2008 04:38 pm
I don't know the answer to your question, farmerman. It is true that every U. S. District Court is allowed to make its own regulations. The regulations for the West Texas Division may be different than for the Central Pennsylvania Division. I have heard of judges selecting a common dictionary such as Merriam Webster and insisting that the definition of all terms agree with the dictionary.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 8 Jul, 2008 04:48 pm
What's their definition of "Tw*t" wande?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 8 Jul, 2008 04:53 pm
That would be spendi, but I think it's spelled "twat."
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 8 Jul, 2008 05:03 pm
That is incorrect and liable to cause young people to get the wrong end of the stick.

A Tw*t is, as most people know, a device for scr*wing the l*iving da*lights out of any silly c*nt who dares to try one out.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 8 Jul, 2008 06:44 pm
I believe spendi is in the throes of Recalcitrant Brewskitis
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jul, 2008 04:16 am
Oh--I don't know about that fm!!

Quote:
Keep the Supreme Court from becoming a vehicle of right wing policy.


When it has a majority of Roman Catholics and Mr Obama has lurched to the right since he saw off the Gutsy Broad with a load of crap and he's the only alternative now to another right winger.

Not to mention that the facts of life are right wing.

Quote:
"The better theory is the one that explains more, that explains with greater precision, and that allows us to make better predictions."
Karl Popper (1902-1994)


And Feyerabend is supposed to have demolished Popper in Trivializing Knowledge- a section of Farewell to Reason.

You have to laugh at the thought that by quoting that drivel wande signs himself up as a wise, precise prophet.

It seems to me that anti-IDers are in the throes of Recalcitrant Brewskitis and are projecting like chapel hatpegs.

You guys trivialise knowledge like it has never been trivialised before.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jul, 2008 05:48 am
What do you think of this fm-

Quote:
The "Real" Gold Price
Now that the gold price has climbed above the $850 high reached back in January 1980, many are proclaiming that the gold price is at a new ?'record'. That's true of course when gold's exchange rate to the dollar is viewed in terms of nominal dollars, but nominal dollars provide a distorted picture.

After all, everyone knows that because of inflation a dollar today purchases much less than it did twenty-eight years ago, so clearly, $850 today does not have the purchasing power it did back then. The question therefore arises, what price does gold have to reach in inflation adjusted dollars to equal the purchasing power of eight hundred fifty 1980-dollars?

The answer to this question depends upon which Consumer Price Index is used to calculate the inflation adjusted gold price. The two alternatives are the US government's CPI or the CPI provided by John Williams of www.ShadowStats.com.

These two different CPI measures provide very different inflation adjusted gold prices. So which CPI should we use?

The ShadowStats CPI eliminates the changes made by the US government since the early 1980s to its own CPI measure. In other words, the ShadowsStats CPI is the same one the US government used to calculate inflation while Jimmy Carter was president.

The changes made by the government to its CPI were clearly introduced to lessen reported CPI inflation. A lower inflation rate reduces the cost-of-living increases the US government makes to welfare and Social Security recipients, thereby reducing its budget deficit. Welfare and Social Security recipients suffer the consequences. Their purchasing power is reduced because the payments they receive do not keep up with the real rate of inflation.

An example will be useful to illustrate this loss of purchasing power. Let's assume that a recipient received $850 per month from the US government in January 1980. Using the US government's CPI, that recipient is today receiving $2,310. However, if the US government had not made any changes to the way it calculates CPI, the recipient would today be receiving $6,255. This difference can be seen in the following chart, which presents the January $850 gold price adjusted for inflation using both CPI's.

There are a couple of important conclusions from the above chart. First, gold at its present price of $900 today is still very cheap. In other words, it is a long way from the purchasing power an ounce of gold achieved in January 1980. Second, both measures on the above chart show that the dollar is losing purchasing power every month. So if gold in the future were to reach a $6,255 gold price, the inflation between now and then would require gold to reach an even higher price to equal the purchasing power it had in January 1980.

Rather than reduce inflation, the US government instead shot the messenger. By fiddling with the CPI, the US government wants us to believe that inflation is not as bad as it really is, which is the same strategy it has pursued with the other important inflation messenger - gold. Government interventions to cap the gold price prevent the gold barometer from alerting everyone that inflation is a growing menace.

To conclude, even though gold is trading at a record high in terms of nominal dollars, the real gold price is far below the old January 1980 record when adjusted for inflation. Gold is still good value, and more importantly, government interventions have kept gold cheap, thus enabling us to buy gold at gold prices far less than would be the case if the government wasn't intervening. Therefore, continue to spend overvalued dollars to accumulate.


Do you think Recalcitrant Brewskitis is catching?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jul, 2008 05:55 am
sorry that youre stewing over my childish attempt at humor there spendi. Relax, go do some trivia. Im busy tody so ill be signing out for a few time units.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jul, 2008 06:15 am
You couldn't make me stew fm if you danced around the cauldron for a month.

Is US inflation policy science or religion?

Who defines "intelligent" in the expression Intelligent Design?

BTW- This thread is where I relax. Trivia needs concentration which is why you lot avoid it.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jul, 2008 08:50 am
Quote:
Chuck Norris Forgets the Talking Points
(by Ed Brayton, ScienceBlogs.Com, July 9, 2008)

Or perhaps he's just not on the mailing list from the Discovery Institute. In his latest column, Chuck Norris says:
"Flying under the legislative radar this past week was potential McCain running mate and governor of Louisiana Bobby Jindal's signing into law of Senate Bill 733, which allows ?'local school systems to approve the use of supplemental instructional materials for teaching science classes.' What opponents are up in arms about is that, with SB 733, teachers could supplement evolutionary teachings with materials on Creationism or Intelligent Design."

Oops. He went and let the cat out of the bag. Chuck, repeat after me: SB 733 allows teachers to offer objective, scientific critiques of current theories, including evolution. That's bullshit, of course, and we all know it, but you've got to stick to the talking points or other people will find out it's bullshit too. And speaking of bullshit:
"What many might not realize, however, is that our founders were familiar with naturalistic and evolutionary views of the sciences. Evolution has been around a lot longer than Darwin. And criticism for it has also been around a lot longer than Ben Stein's movie 'Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed.' The Founding Fathers were well-aware of the arguments for and against naturalism. They were familiar with the sciences and arguments for and against theism and naturalism since well before the time of Christ."

Wow. Just wow. Someone gave this ignoramus a column, for crying out loud. There are people who actually take him seriously. That's frightening.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jul, 2008 09:04 am
Why are blogs invading A2K?

Who here is debating with Mr Brayton?

What's a "Science Blog"? Calling it a science blog doesn't mean it has anything to do with science.

And if he's "frightened" perhaps we should alert the appropriate services so that they can call on him to reassure him that nothing of importance is happening and that things will go on much as they always have. Minor hiccups notwithstanding.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jul, 2008 09:43 am
This is bit better than a blog.

Sunday Times Magazine Feechewer Blair's Second Coming extract-

Quote:
In office, Blair, who converted to Roman Catholicism last year, didn't much discuss his Christianity ("We don't do God," Alistair Campbell famously decreed, and once privately to me {Lesley White}: "He thinks we're all bloody heathens"), but now he means to talk about little else, having defined religion rather than secular politics as the power axis of the future.

"This is what I want to be involved in for the rest of my life," he says.


And Mr Blair is very popular I gather in the US. Jon Voight is calling him a hero.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 10 Jul, 2008 08:19 am
Quote:
Patsy Jindal
(John Derbyshire, National Review Online, July 9, 2008)

What do I have to say about Louisiana Governor Jindal signing the Louisiana Science Education Act? Very little more than I said here back on June 20.

Whether or not the law as signed is unconstitutional per se, I do not know. I do know, though ?- as the creationist Discovery Institute that helped promote the Act also surely knows ?- that the Act will encourage Louisiana local school boards to unconstitutional behavior. That's what it's meant to do.

Some local school board will take the Act as a permit to bring religious instruction into their science classes. That will irk some parents. Those parents will sue. There will be a noisy and expensive federal lawsuit, possibly followed by further noisy and expensive appeals. The school board will inevitably lose. The property owners of that school district will take the financial hit.

Where will the Discovery Institute be when these legal expenses come due? Just where they were in the Dover case ?- nowhere! What, you were thinking that those bold warriors for truth at the Discovery Institute will help to fund the defense in these no-hope lawsuits? Ha ha ha ha ha!

Helping to defend creationist school boards in federal courts is not the Discovery Institute's game. Their game is to (a) make money from those spurious "textbooks" they put out, and (b) keep creationism in the news so that they don't run out of lecture gigs and wealthy funders. So far as those legal bills are concerned, Discovery Institute policy is: Let the dumb rubes fund their own stupid lawsuits.

Or, as the Discovery Institute's John West put it in an interview with a New Orleans news service: "This bill is not a license to propagandize against something they don't like in science," West said. "Someone who uses materials to inject religion into the classroom is not only violating the Constitution, they are violating the bill."

See, the Discovery Instutute does not want any Louisiana school boards bringing religious instruction into science lessons. Heaven forbid! They would never encourage that. Absolutely not! Why, that would be wrong.

All they do is encourage state legislators to pass, and clueless governors to sign, laws that tempt local boards to unconstitutional behavior. The sucker school boards are then on their own, stuck with spending their taxpayers' dollars on the defense of hopeless lawsuits. But, you know, the Discovery Institute had absolutely nothing to do with it. Nothing! Not a thing! All they did was offer some mild support to a perfectly harmless bill. Heck, they didn't even lobby the Governor. From that same news story: "At the Discovery Institute, a Seattle-based think tank that promotes intelligent design and backed the new education act, senior fellow John West said he and his colleagues did not directly lobby Jindal."

The creationists have pulled off their little stunt once again, and Bobby Jindal has been their patsy. I know there is a pro-Jindal factor among my colleagues here, and I'm not stepping on toes for the fun of it. I must say, though, I can't see voting into national office a guy who is duped as easily as this into acting against his voters' interests. I'd prefer that my President or Vice President not be such an easy mark for a gang of sleazy confidence tricksters.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 10 Jul, 2008 12:42 pm
It sounds from that that Louisiana's elected political elite have been smooched by Disco. That they have no mind of their own.

What a ridiculous idea, that Louisiana's top brass are paralysed in Disco's headlights and, I should think, an idea thought ridiculous nowhere moreso than in Louisiana.

Mr Derbyshire is promoting Disco by deviously suggesting that it has had any effect on Lousiana's vote. He has granted a power ascendency to Disco which is unelected over two assemblies and an office which are all elected and can be presumed to understand local conditions.

Some straw man he's got there. That's confidence trickery goodstyle.

Like all journalists he thinks politicians are stupid. And the voters.

If religion did drop out science would blow media away in the fight which would then ensue. Imagine regulations where everything in media had to be a scientifically verified fact so that people could be properly educated.

The Lonely Hearts pages would look silly. There's some fantasies on them.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 10 Jul, 2008 01:31 pm
I believe spendi is talking back at the little voices in his head.


I believe that "DISCO" is spendiform for Discovery Institute. Although Im never sure with him. He chooses format over substance always.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 10 Jul, 2008 01:36 pm
from Derbyshire's article
Quote:
Helping to defend creationist school boards in federal courts is not the Discovery Institute's game. Their game is to (a) make money from those spurious "textbooks" they put out, and (b) keep creationism in the news so that they don't run out of lecture gigs and wealthy funders. So far as those legal bills are concerned, Discovery Institute policy is: Let the dumb rubes fund their own stupid lawsuits


I think that this paragraph is an overly simplistic view and one that is dead wronmg about the Discovery Institute (DI). They have been a "budding" from the neck of Scientific Creationism and display, among their members, all sorts of convinced Creationists who are stuck on the PAleyian affirmation. I cant believe that, just to keep in funds, they would play at being convinced of the correctness of their worldview.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 10 Jul, 2008 01:42 pm
farmerman,

Spendi may have gotten "Disco" from a post I wrote several months ago. I mentioned that many science bloggers now use "Disco" as shorthand when speaking of the Discovery Institute.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 10 Jul, 2008 01:42 pm
They have more to lose by sticking with the various suits than if they just provide experts and move on. They need to keep their own mission intact. In Dover, they had, from the start, not wanted to entertain a law suit without several legal facets that would give them partial victories in summary judgements . Their own wedge strategy recognized that victories would take time and diligant efforts and there would be many "two steps forward and three steps back" scenarios.
The very cases that are gonna be an outgrowth of Louisianas law will, Ill bet, be compacted with other case points that are equally as inocuous sounding as the one that Jindal signed.
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Thu 10 Jul, 2008 03:55 pm
Ultimately the only valid way to counter this bill is to ensure that teachers are properly trained in their subject of expertise. Science teachers must be qualified to teach science.

Unfortunately, this may take some time...
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2026 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.1 seconds on 03/10/2026 at 07:35:49