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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Sun 17 Feb, 2008 01:31 pm
My great nephew was homeschooled by a mom with a high school diploma. When he started highschool in the public school, within two weeks he was begging to come home for school again--he said the teachers didn't know their subjects and wasted so much time that he wanted to scream.

He scored in the 90+ percentile in almost all categories on his SATs, he is a champion rodeo rider, an accomplished musician, and a leader in his state youth church group. He is in his first year of college now and will be studying physics and engineering. (His folks had hired tutors to help with some of the math.)

This kid I am guessing is of normal intelligence, but is a great kid. And if anything proved the value of homeschooling to me, he did. (And yes he learned Darwin.)
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Sun 17 Feb, 2008 01:53 pm
The HSDLA is the lobby of homeschooled. It recognizes that the tax payed resources such as, home study kits, museums and outreach ed resources are utilized by the home schooling parents. ALso, where the home schooled are part of a family unit, the parents will usually be people with college and higher degrees.

HOWEVER, Its been reported that there are about 2.4 million home schooled in the US and , of those, in recent years we have ACT and SAT scores from less than 5.0% of them. WHY, because testing for home schooled kids is still VOLUNTARY. Before we go and declare complete succes and abandon all public schools, Id want to see more cumulative and all inclusive data on how well the schools work. In public schools, all testing is mandatory and results are published, so for data produced by HSDLA Ive noted that the differences for Avg SAT's were 1083 cum for home schooled and 1016 for public schools. (SAT's for public schools include recording test scores for all abilities)

There are about 50 great magnet schools in PA where the really gifted kids can go to gain a specially tuned public education under the "Talented and Gifted" programs. Heres where the really smart kids go , using the HS equivalent of scholarships. I wonder how the smartest kids from each school "kit" compare? Id like to see the attainment levels of Public, Parochial, Magnet schools and the Homeschooled on a side by side basis.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Sun 17 Feb, 2008 02:14 pm
We probably do have fewer SAT or ACT scores from homeschoolers and I think a good deal of that is due to a residual prejudice against homeschoolers. From what I've read and heard, there are a lot of kids who complete homeschooling and then a GED and don't confess their homeschooling to avoid such discrimination. So it's difficult to judge how the numbers might be skewed.

Quote:
Home School SAT Scores for 1999 and 2000
Home School Legal Defense Association recently asked The College Board, publisher of the Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT), if they could tell us how home schoolers were doing on this college preparatory test. The following information is excerpted from the College Board's May 2, 2001 fax.

The College Board only has data on home-schooled SAT-takers in the high school graduating classes of 1999 and 2000.
The numbers and percentages of home-schooled SAT takers has risen slightly in those two years:

In 1999, 3,116 of 1,220,130 high school graduates with SAT scores (0.25 percent) said they were home-schooled.

In 2000, 5,663 of 1,260,278 high school graduates with SAT scores (0.45 percent) said they were home-schooled.
In 2000, the group of home-schooled SAT takers also had higher SAT averages:

The average SAT scores of home-schooled students were 568 Verbal and 532 Math, above the national averages of 505 Verbal and 514 Math.
Among home schoolers---men's scores were 568 Verbal and 554 Math (vs. 507 Verbal and 533 Math nationwide); and women's scores were 568 Verbal and 513 Math (vs. 504 Verbal and 498 Math nationwide).

Males were 46 percent of both the home-schooled and the national SAT populations, and women comprised 54 percent of both populations.
Used with permission of The College Board, 45 Columbus Avenue, New York, NY 10023-6992, 212-713-8000, www.collegeboard.com.
http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/hslda/200105070.asp


Quote:
Jason, who is 17 years old, was home-schooled by his mother. After he scored 1,570 out of a possible 1,600 on his SAT college-admissions test -- with a perfect 800 in math -- Oglethorpe invited him to compete with other top applicants for five scholarships valued at about $100,000 apiece. Of the 94 prospects in the Jan. 22 contest, eight were home-schoolers, each with SATs above 1,300. . . .

The high scores are no fluke. As the movement grows larger and more diverse, evidence is mounting that home-schooling, once confined to the political and religious fringe, has achieved results not only on par with public education, but in some ways surpassing it. Though home-schooling may never be feasible for most families, the data offer little comfort to those who advocate a standardized curriculum as the best hope for improving American education. After all, each home-based pupil follows a unique lesson plan. . . .

. . . .The SAT and the ACT, the nation's other major college-entrance test, have begun asking exam takers whether they were home-schooled. The 3,257 ACT takers and 2,219 SAT takers who last year identified themselves as home-schoolers are fewer than might be expected if a million or more students are being educated at home. But researchers say such students often are reluctant to declare themselves for privacy reasons or for fear of discrimination. Moreover, many taught at home in lower grades later attend high school.
http://www.oakmeadow.com/resources/articles/WSJArticle.htm


Quote:
There are, unfortunately, some colleges that like to make it harder for homeschoolers to get in.
http://www.eduqna.com/Home-Schooling/950-home-schooling.html
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Sun 17 Feb, 2008 03:03 pm
It depends what you are testing.

The retired Chief Inspector of Schools here, who has a weekly column in The Sunday Times, was on telly this very day with his permament hobby-horse about the dumbing-down going on so that parents can feel better about themselves via the genetic connection they have with the products of their loins. Everybody gets a "diploma" now.

The universities are now running their own entrance exams because they no longer trust what the schools have produced and employers are doing the same.

The cynics call it a new form of consumerism, a job creation scheme for the education industry and a method of keeping the politically sensitive unemployment figures lower than they would be if these kids aren't kept out of the labour market or, at least, that segment of it which they won't work in.

c.i. wrote-

Quote:
Pause and think about that for a moment, if you can.


I have thought about it a very great deal and read a damn sight more about it than you have.

We are talking about the future on here. And anyway--a large proportion of your achievements are down to people educated in Europe. And produced with a middle-class of the correct proportion rather than the unwieldy monster it now is.

Why does your greatest poet sing about your educational system as he does? Because he has a more penetrating gaze than people prone to subjectivity do is the reason.

And don't bother insulting the guy because the world of music and poetry won't be agreeing with you anytime soon. And what the world outside of that thinks is neither here nor there.

A nation's poets tell what is going on. Have any of you read The Air-conditioned Nightmare. Or Naked Lunch.

Foxy wrote-

Quote:
(And yes he learned Darwin.)


Can't you see Foxy that that is meaningless.

I'll bet he didn't learn the interesting stuff. If he did shame on you. Some well-brought up ladies fainted when they heard Darwin speak on his theory. Have you forgotten the guy who said it was a good laugh.

I'm beginning to think it might fascinate people on an unconscious level and they use the psuedo-science wrapping so they can keep talking about it. Like The Golden Bough does. Some deep streak of ativism for the primitive.

You go into bat for Darwin in schools if you wish. It's an anti-ID litmus test. If you want a foot in both camps you'll end up with your legs as wide apart as a can-can girl doing the splits.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 17 Feb, 2008 03:17 pm
spendi wrote: We are talking about the future on here. And anyway--a large proportion of your achievements are down to people educated in Europe.


You are blinded by your own myopia. Please name all those educated in Europe that have produced American products and services that had an impact on the world?
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spendius
 
  1  
Sun 17 Feb, 2008 03:42 pm
What does "produced" mean?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 17 Feb, 2008 04:08 pm
Produced means "invented," "introduced," "developed," "created," and "sold."
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 17 Feb, 2008 04:11 pm
Here's a dictionary defintion of "produced."

pro·duce (pr-ds, -dys, pr-)
v. pro·duced, pro·duc·ing, pro·duc·es
v.tr.
1. To bring forth; yield: a plant that produces pink flowers.
2.
a. To create by physical or mental effort: produce a tapestry; produce a poem.
b. To manufacture: factories that produce cars and trucks.
3. To cause to occur or exist; give rise to: chemicals that produce a noxious vapor when mixed.
4. To bring forth; exhibit: reached into a pocket and produced a packet of matches; failed to produce an eyewitness to the crime.
5. To supervise and finance the making and public presentation of: produce a stage play; produce a videotape.
6. Mathematics To extend (an area or volume) or lengthen (a line).
v.intr.
1. To make or yield products or a product: an apple tree that produces well.
2. To manufacture or create economic goods and services.
n. (prds, prds)
1. Something produced; a product.
2. Farm products, especially fresh fruits and vegetables, considered as a group.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Sun 17 Feb, 2008 04:19 pm
foxfyre. The scores speak for themselves , but perfect scores in SAT's are not unusual . My point is still that stating that score averages are higher than public schooled children are not a statistic that can be used to compare outcome success

1Home SChoolerd are NOT REQUIRED to take standardized tests, and in fact, less than 10% actually report in th ACT and SAT's

2Public schools, unlike Parochial schools MUST teach kids of all aptitudes, wheas home schoolers usually dont report their low achievers.

The entire thing is an apples and carrots issue that home schooling organizations want to have presented so that they can acquire the same funding levels per student that the Charter schools are given.

In Pa, this year alone 3 mass murderers were home schooled. Does that mean theres a correlation between serial killers and home schooling? no of course not but neirther is the assertion that RL makes that home schooling is "superior". Its just another means of education that is usually chosen for reasons that suit the parent, not the student.(Ie, the homeschooler parents are many times Evangelicals, 'last standers", and often, extreme conservatives or ectreme liberals)
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farmerman
 
  1  
Sun 17 Feb, 2008 04:23 pm
spendi[quote]And anyway--a large proportion of your achievements are down to people educated in Europe. And produced with a middle-class of the correct proportion rather than the unwieldy monster it now is.
[/quote]

This is total bullshit based upon no evidence. Why is it that the most prestigious University Grad SChools and med schools are those in the US? ALl the world sends their elites to our elites.
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Diest TKO
 
  1  
Sun 17 Feb, 2008 04:29 pm
farmerman wrote:
Why is it that the most prestigious University Grad SChools and med schools are those in the US? ALl the world sends their elites to our elites.


This is true. While the US has laughable public elementary, Middle Schools, and High Schools, it's colleges are nothing short of stellar. My school is full of amazing international students, but they came here, not elsewhere. Our graduate programs (especially in the sciences) are very good.

T
K
O
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Sun 17 Feb, 2008 05:00 pm
Quote:
With God On Their Side...
(By Frances Patterson, Rethinking Schools, Volume 16, No. 2 - Winter 2001 / 2002)

My study of textbooks used in evangelical and fundamentalist Christian schools underscores that the materials are biased toward an overwhelmingly conservative point of view on social, political, and religious matters.

Shorn of the text that makes them uniquely "textbooks" - long passages about the influence of Prince Metternich, descriptions of Thailand's geography, and explanations of the Electoral College - the materials are indistinguishable from the literature of the Religious Right.

On matters of religion, the texts adhere to a literal interpretation of the Bible, and are rife with stereotypes and distortions of not only non-Christian religions but of the Roman Catholic Church.

For my research, I studied social studies textbooks published by A Beka press for grades 4 to 12 , by Bob Jones University Press for grades 3 to 12, and 84 social studies booklets published or distributed by School of Tomorrow/Accelerated Christian Education. The texts range from U.S. history books, to civics and government books, to social studies books, to world studies texts.

My study, as researchers Dan Fleming and Thomas Hunt also concluded in their study published in the March 1987 Phi Delta Kappan, shows that the textbooks and materials are clearly biased toward a conservative fundamentalist outlook.

To cite a few examples of the bias:
-- One social studies booklet on government tells students "as Bible Believers, we cannot isolate ourselves from our government. We must become involved in the political processes by voting for candidates who support our conservative, Biblical principles."
-- One U.S. history text, in a typical passage condemning the 1973 Roe V. Wade decision legalizing abortion, says, "During the 16 years following that 1973 decision, more than 20 million lives were ended by abortion. That number is more than ten times the number of Americans who have died in all the wars the nation has fought! That number is more than three times the number of Jews that Adolf Hitler exterminated in concentration camps during the Holocaust! The United States of America, founded on the Word of God, had legalized the murder of millions of babies."

The texts' approach to politics can be summarized this way: Democrats are deluded, liberals are villains, and conservatives are heroes. This is part of a pattern where descriptions used for people, groups, and movements clearly imply that some are unacceptable.

In A Beka's world history textbooks, the term "liberal" is tied to, among other things, the belief in evolution - and both are thoroughly castigated.

In the eighth grade U.S. history book, a liberal is defined as: "a person who believes government should have more control over people's lives, that government through taxes should provide for more of people's needs, and that Biblical traditional values are not strong considerations."

The authors acknowledge that liberals and conservatives exist in both parties, but point out that liberals are more likely to be found in the Democratic Party and conservatives in the Republican Party.

The publisher's 10th grade text defines a conservative as "a person who wants to conserve a standard [that] is desirable if the standard is good (the Bible, the U.S. Constitution, Judeo-Christian ethics) and undesirable if the standard is bad (Marxism, false religions, immorality)."

The text also emphasizes that "American and other Western conservatives believe there are eternal values that need to be preserved in human thought and action; they also seek to preserve the Judeo-Christian heritage that has made the West great [emphasis in the original]."

Another pattern in the Christian school textbooks is that conservatives are cited and quoted with approval, while liberals are given less coverage, omitted, or treated in a critical fashion. A Beka's fourth-grade history text, for example, includes a color photograph and 22 lines about conservative Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. "Through his own hard work and God-given ability," the book says of Thomas, "he earned a law degree and achieved several important government positions." Thurgood Marshall, the first African-American appointed to the court, is not mentioned at all.

The books thoroughly castigate socialism and Communism, and present theocracy as the ideal form of government. The A Beka civics textbook begins by noting that "All governments are ordained by God, but none compare to government by God, theocracy."

The use of the terms "socialism" and "socialistic" in connection with Democratic presidents and their policies is particularly problematic. For example, in A Beka's senior high school world history book, the authors state, "A serious flaw developed in American culture during the Cold War period as America began to drift away from the institutions and heritage that made her great. For example, the U.S. government continued to move toward socialism following the 'New Deal'; under the Kennedy, Johnson, and Carter administrations, government spending grew enormously as welfare programs sapped the economy and resulted in a heavier tax burden upon the American people."

Both the civics and history textbooks repeatedly state that America is in a moral decline and blame a variety of causes. For example, Bob Jones's civics text states that "secular humanistic thought, which puts man at the center of all things, now provides a basis for public morals, judicial decisions, and social values."

Criticism of contemporary culture focuses on alleged breakdowns in social order and family values during the 1960s and 1970s. Eighth graders read that "although the United States has been a sinless nation, conditions of the 1960s and 1970s saw much open defiance of God's standards" with the result that "hard rock music, drugs, and open immorality continue to plague America." A Beka's high school world history book argues that even after the "hippie" decade of the 1960s, "America's immorality grew worse as abortion and immoral life styles were considered 'normal' by many people."

The importance of the family is underscored again and again; however, the family must conform to God's mandate, which is linked, in turn, to the proper relationship of human beings to government. " The A Beka civics text notes, "Governmental authority flows from God to human institutions and to the individuals responsible for ruling others within those institutions [according to] a definite order of command from God to human leaders to their followers. For example, the husband is the head of the wife and the parents are God's representatives to rule their children. Individuals obey God when they submit to and obey the God-appointed authorities over them."

Abortion and homosexuality are strongly condemned. The coverage of abortion begins in elementary school materials and increases in both detail and vehemence through the grades. Language such as "innocent babies," "grisly procedure," "legalized murder," and "slaughter of unborn babies" is common.

Abortion is also explicitly linked to other sinful conduct, including homosexuality, which, in turn, is linked to egregious criminal conduct. Because homosexuals engage in "vile affections," their claim to legal protection is unwarranted. "These people have no more claim to special rights than child molesters or rapists." says Bob Jones's senior high school current events textbook.

As with abortion, middle, and junior high school students are exposed to explicit condemnation of gay people and the "gay lifestyle." Eighth graders learn that "these immoral Americans not only try to excuse their sin as simply another choice of lifestyle but also try to demand special recognition and privilege. Such a situation serves to illustrate man's sinful condition and his great need for the Savior."

By contrast, issues related to rae and the civil rights movement are discussed in a more straightforward and objective fashion, and the tone is generally cool. For instance, the authors of the senior high school American history book from bob Jones University de-emphasize the inhumanity of the institution of slavery by opining that slavery was not particularly cruel:"A few slave holders were undeniably cruel. Examples of slaves beaten to death were not common, neither were they unknown. The majority of slave holders treated their slaves well."

Meanwhile, the texts are uncompromisingly critical of public education. A School of Tomorrow/Accelerated Christian Education booklet links public education to the nation's religious decline: "There are several reasons why North America has not experienced a great spiritual awakening. The humanist educational system, media, and mindset have trained North Americans to rationalize away much of the Bible and its teaching."

A Beka's senior high school United States history textbook presents public education as suffering from a process of deterioration: "Because basic phonics, traditional math, drill, and repetition had been virtually eliminated from many school curriculums, students were not learning.
Grades fell, and a reliable study classified thirty percent of all public school students as 'learning disabled.' As the federal government began to hand out large amounts of money to educate these 'learning disabled' students, critics suggested that some educators labeled students 'learning disabled' in order to qualify for more government aid."

A School of Tomorrow/Accelerated Christian Education booklet on American government shows a one-room schoolhouse bound by chains. Over the door is a sign that says, "Big Brother Public School." The caption announces that this is "another fine, professionally engineered, state-of-the-art security, high tech, nonreligious, tax-payer funded, federal government school for your [crossed out with a red X] our children!"

In quasi-economic discussions related to poverty and its amelioration, providentialism predominates fatalism. The authors present poverty as rooted in personal weakness and tend to ignore or downplay possible structural causes. Organized efforts to end poverty are characterized as contrary to God's plan for humanity, injurious to good government, or both.

Senior high school American history booklets produced by School of Tomorrow/Accelerated Christian Education take a particularly strident tone: "The Founding Fathers plan for government, the Constitution, included the protection of citizens, the promotion of general welfare, and the provision for a common defense. It did not include the giving of handouts to citizens." 19 In the same section, students read that "like many other government programs, [Medicare and Medicaid] are socialistic [and] Social Security is not a good investment program."

The section concludes by implying that Social Security and other government anti-poverty programs are contrary to the Bible. "Scripture plainly teaches that widows, the needy, and others who cannot provide for themselves are to have their needs met [but] God's plan is for these needs to be met first by family members and then by local churches, but not by government."

Unemployment also is caused by personal weakness or the actions of government. The market, unencumbered by the restrictions of the minimum wage, is the best solution for unemployment. A Beka's eighth-grade U.S. history text, speaking of welfare programs during the Kennedy Administration, argues that "because it is human nature to try to get something for nothing, many people took advantage of government handouts."

The texts, especially those from A Beka, view taxation, especially the progressive income tax, as a necessary evil. After drawing a clear connection between the progressive income tax and Communism (the text notes that a graduated income tax is one of the principles of Karl Marx' Communist Manifesto), one School of Tomorrow/Accelerated American history booklet for senior high school students issues a clarion call to reform or abolish the progressive income tax by stating: "It was wrong for outlaw Robin Hood to steal from the rich and give to the poor, and it is wrong for governments to do it. The U.S. tax law needs to be changed."

Not surprisingly, the texts devote a great deal of space to the issue of Communism. While virtually all government intervention in the economic sphere is described in negative terms, the coverage of Communism and socialism is distinguished by its depth, frequency, and extreme hostility. The authors' rhetoric can best be described as passionate, and their depth of feeling is matched only in their more abbreviated discussions of abortion, prayer in the schools, and the dangers of religious and political liberalism. The end of the Cold War does not seem to have affected their stance toward Communism and socialism.

The texts also express a substantial degree of animosity toward the United Nations. The A Beka senior high school world history text contains some of the harshest language: "Contrary to the basic Judeo-Christian concept of law which places limits on government, the UN charter laid the foundation for one-world government with unlimited power. ... The UN founders envisioned an all-powerful, global authority with power to bend nations into conformity with its plans for the 'world community.' Given the radical agenda and the totalitarian philosophy of the UN, one can quickly discern the threat of its plan for world government to the political, religious, and social liberty of all free peoples. It is a collectivist juggernaut that would crush individual freedom and force the will of an elite few on all of humanity."

The above material is a partial summary of my research. Analyzing the material in Christian school texts goes a long way to answering the question of why many conservative organizations advocate programs that would privatize U.S. education. Indeed, one of the primary reasons for conservative support of vouchers and various school choice programs is not only to provide financial support for religious schools, but to also expose larger numbers of American students to conservative ideology.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 17 Feb, 2008 05:05 pm
Some on the top lists of universities in this world are: Harvard, Stanford, Cal Berkeley, MIT, Yale, CIT, UCLA, USC, University of Texas, Princeton, etc., etc., etc.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Sun 17 Feb, 2008 05:20 pm
Diest TKO wrote:
farmerman wrote:
Why is it that the most prestigious University Grad SChools and med schools are those in the US? ALl the world sends their elites to our elites.


This is true. While the US has laughable public elementary, Middle Schools, and High Schools, it's colleges are nothing short of stellar. My school is full of amazing international students, but they came here, not elsewhere. Our graduate programs (especially in the sciences) are very good.

T
K
O
Canadian higher education is arguably the equal, minus the entrepreneurial spirit and the military-industrial-complex's deep pockets.

Money and power can buy Big Science; Nazi Germany and the post war division of scientific wherefore-all demonstrated that point well.
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spendius
 
  1  
Sun 17 Feb, 2008 05:34 pm
wande quoted-

Quote:
My study of textbooks used in evangelical and fundamentalist Christian schools underscores that the materials are biased toward an overwhelmingly conservative point of view on social, political, and religious matters.


Good. Radical restructuring is all very well as long as it is taken gradually.

I didn't bother with the rest of the quote for obvious reasons.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 17 Feb, 2008 05:40 pm
Obviously!
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spendius
 
  1  
Sun 17 Feb, 2008 05:44 pm
The influx of foreign talent to your centres of excellence is due to the bimbo quotient of your movies and syndicated video productions of one sort or another.

Do you really think it might be due to your scientific genius?

Sheesh!!!

There's no Darwinians around here except maybe me.
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spendius
 
  1  
Sun 17 Feb, 2008 05:49 pm
fm wrote-

Quote:
home schooling organizations


And what would one of those be exactly fm?

Isn't "organisation" a word which sits uneasily beside "home schooling"?
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spendius
 
  1  
Sun 17 Feb, 2008 06:03 pm
fm wrote-

Quote:
There are about 50 great magnet schools in PA where the really gifted kids can go to gain a specially tuned public education under the "Talented and Gifted" programs.


Everybody has those fm. Even the Romans and Greeks. It's no big deal. It isn't as if PA has any special claim to fame on such an obviously crude evolutionary process and thus proving what a sensible chap you are to have settled there and be a highly valued resident of such an enlightened state of the Union.

Do you work for the PA Tourist Board?
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spendius
 
  1  
Sun 17 Feb, 2008 06:21 pm
c.i. wrote-

Quote:
Produced means "invented," "introduced," "developed," "created," and "sold."


I will concede on the "sold". Maybe part of "developed".
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