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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Sat 17 Sep, 2005 01:14 pm
Quote:
AAAS Statement on Changes to Kansas Science Education Standards
AAAS is deeply concerned about the changes that have been made in the Kansas Science Education Standards in order to discredit the theory of evolution. The most troubling aspect of these changes is the redefinition of science. The "Nature of Science" section in the most recently proposed version of the standards says that science is a process that produces "explanations of natural phenomena." This implies that science is just one of many explanations of natural phenomena, including supernatural causes, and removes a defining principle of science which was present in the previous version of the standards-that science is restricted to natural explanations of the natural world. This restriction, which has been one of the cornerstones of scientific practice for more than three centuries, is one of the primary reasons that science has been fruitful in producing useful knowledge.
The latest version of the proposed standards also contains examples of facts that supposedly provide evidence against evolutionary theory, and statements that encourage students to distrust science. Some of these are inaccurate, and others are simply irrelevant or misleading. For example, the fact that the fossil record shows new species appearing at a highly variable rate does not discredit the theory of evolution, because evolution does not require a constant rate of change. Although scientists continue to make new discoveries about the processes of evolution, there is no doubt that evolution does occur.
The cumulative effect of proposed standards is to confuse students about the nature of science. In order to prepare our children to make informed decisions as adults on topics ranging from their own health to national security, we must equip them with a sound understanding of the science that will underlie these decisions. The latest version of the Kansas Science Education Standards does not serve our children well.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 17 Sep, 2005 09:32 pm
It's all in the interpretation:

One Sunday morning, the pastor noticed little Alex standing in the foyer of the church staring up at a large plaque. It was covered with names with small American flags mounted on either side of it.

The seven year old had been staring at the plaque for some time, so the pastor walked up, stood beside the little boy, and said quietly, "Good morning Alex." "Good morning, Pastor," he replied, still focused on the plaque.

Pastor, what is this?" he asked the pastor. The pastor said, "Well, son, it's a memorial to all the young men and women who died in the service."

Soberly, they just stood together, staring at the large plaque.
Finally, little Alex's voice, barely audible and trembling with fear, asked, "Which service, the 9:15 or the 10:30?"
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spendius
 
  1  
Sun 18 Sep, 2005 07:46 am
wande-

What's your take on the quote you just gave.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Sun 18 Sep, 2005 10:51 am
the Passion of the Penguin


'Supporters of intelligent design think that if they see something they don't understand, it must be God; they fail to recognise that they themselves are part of evolution. It appeals to ignorance, which is why there is a lot of it in American politics at the moment.'

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1572642,00.html
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spendius
 
  1  
Sun 18 Sep, 2005 11:00 am
I saw Attenbourough's version of that desperate trudge a few years ago.One often sees a watered down version in the pub on Friday and Saturday nights.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Sun 18 Sep, 2005 11:03 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
It appeals to ignorance, which is why there is a lot of it in American politics at the moment.


And unfortunately, American Politics is by its very nature, a reflection of a majority of voters.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Sun 18 Sep, 2005 11:10 am
funny Spendius
sad Ros
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Sun 18 Sep, 2005 05:28 pm
spendius wrote:
wande-

What's your take on the quote you just gave.


the aaas statement is very direct.

i don't want to dilute its meaning by making a personal comment.
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spendius
 
  1  
Mon 19 Sep, 2005 04:37 am
wande-

I have read the AAAS statement a few times and I would say it is wishy-washy at best and propaganda at worst.

What is "useful knowledge"?

The idea that the broad mass of people can arrive at a "sound understanding" of science is ridiculous.It is base flattery.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Mon 19 Sep, 2005 06:38 am
spendius,

the kansas state board of education has conservative members who merely want to denigrate evolution.

a "teach the controversy" approach is extremely dishonest because there is no controversy among scientists.
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spendius
 
  1  
Mon 19 Sep, 2005 10:47 am
wande-

We scientists seek to take over the world.Naturally we don't think there is anything to dispute.

Every Sunday I sit in an intellectual brain storming session and yesterday I discovered a scientific proof that women are monkeys and we men are not but humour them for base reasons.I can't remember all the steps in the proof because I was a trifle woozie but it had to do with the essentially atavistic nature of fashion and decor stemming from that instinct which causes certain parts of female monkey anatomy to undergo colour changes to signify co-operation.The elaborations we see around us are derivations of the invidious comparisons female monkeys must make with each other.We were trying to discover whether "keeping up with the Jones's" was natural or learned.I was defending Veblen.

Possibly ID is a vain attempt to deny such things and to deny amorality.Wouldn't a 100% scientific approach have to depend on terror to enforce rules.

Or are SDers like those men who spend all evening romancing a lady and then bolt when she opens the bedroom door? I define SDers as those who prosletyse and allow no doubts.Most artists are doubters and they never bolt.

How does an SDer discount the possibility,which I think strong,that IDers are simply using creationism to protect their way of life from the jagged sparks and stainless steel knives of scientism or because it makes a better story.Where would Father Christmas be under scientism?And that's a simple one.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 19 Sep, 2005 11:40 am
"...protect their way of life from the jagged sparks and stainless steel knives of scientism..." is the most misdirected idea to reveal itself on this forum. Scientism only follows scietific methods to arrive at theories that can be observed and tested. It has nothing to do with trying to defend itself against creationism. Trying to equate science with religious belief is the problem with creatinists. Creationists can't prove anything about ID, and they feel science attacks them on that basis. It's so foolish they would resort to "stainless steel knives."
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spendius
 
  1  
Mon 19 Sep, 2005 02:18 pm
I'm out of my depth with that I'm afraid.
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spendius
 
  1  
Mon 19 Sep, 2005 02:24 pm
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Top scientists have measured the distance between the brain and its experiences. Take it away Prof.'s -

"Using a multi-meter and the well-known technological medical device that tests for the presence of disorders of thought, we have found that experience is properly maintained when it is at a distance of 7 Angstrom units (7 ten-billionth's of a meter) from the active brain-cell. Any more than that and the patient starts to suffer from dis-conjugative angstrom separation anxiety."


That's less poetic than my jagged knives thing.Mr Jones put it on another thread.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Tue 20 Sep, 2005 11:55 am
DOVER PENNSYLVANIA UPDATE:

Quote:
Intelligent Designers Down on Dover
(CHRISTINA KAUFFMAN, The York Dispatch, September 19, 2005)

The Dover Area School District and its board will likely walk into a First Amendment court battle next week without the backing of the nation's largest supporter of intelligent design.
The Discovery Institute, a Seattle-based nonprofit that describes itself as a "nonpartisan policy and research organization," recently issued a policy position against Dover in its upcoming court case.
John West, associate director of Discovery's Center for Science & Culture, calls the Dover policy "misguided" and "likely to be politically divisive and hinder a fair and open discussion of the merits of intelligent design."
*********************************************************
The school board's attorney, Richard Thompson, said he isn't surprised the Discovery Institute has distanced itself from the school board's stance.
"I think it's a tactical decision they make on their own," said Thompson, top attorney with Michigan-based Thomas More Law Center, a law firm that specializes in cases related to the religious freedom of Christians.
Though the Discovery Institute promotes the teaching of intelligent design, it has been critical of school boards that have implemented intelligent design policies, Thompson said.
Discovery Institute's Web site offers school board members a link to a video titled "How to Teach the Controversy Legally," referring to the organization's opinion that there is a controversy over the validity of the theory of evolution.
*********************************************************
Thompson said the Discovery Institute's noninvolvement in the trial won't hinder Dover's case because "the judge is going to look at the policy ... not who is in favor of it on the outside."
But the institute has been a hindrance to the school district's attempts to find "scientific" witnesses to testify about intelligent design, Thompson said.
Though Discovery representatives said they have never been in support of Dover's policy, Thompson said the organization's unwillingness to get involved in the trial became evident after it insisted that some of its fellows -- who were lined up to testify -- have their own legal representation, instead of the Thomas More Center, which bills itself as "The Sword and Shield for People of Faith."
Some of the Discovery Institute's intelligent design supporters backed out of testifying, even after Thompson told them they could have their own legal representation if they wanted, Thompson said.
"It was very disappointing" that the institute would prevent its members from testifying, Thompson said.
But he still found some willing Discovery fellows to testify that intelligent design is not a religious movement: Michael Behe from Lehigh University and Scott Minnich from the University of Idaho.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 20 Sep, 2005 12:16 pm
this had been going on for quite awhile. We think that the Discovery Institute realized early that, should things go against them in this arena, they are, for all intents and purposes, a dodo. When it became obvious in discovery that the ACLUwas going to use the Edwards v Aguillard decision and try to pin the same tail on these guys, the IDers became nervous because ALL of their printed "scientific" junk is laden with spirituality and "charges of "Atheism in the sciences"
2 of the ACLUs witnesses are very Christian scientists who decry the silliness to which this movement has resorted. Dembski, by leaving his private moments be quoted in print, has done no good to his movement. The trail of evidence is quite thick and well paved to the home of ID. Mike Behe is about one of the few left.Youve gotta admire him however, hes still saying that his teaching is scientifically based, even though Lehigh U has come out with a public statement criticizing him as a spokesman for ID and its thin veil covering its deeply held fundamental Christian beliefs

No hypocrisy in their motives though. (just checkin to see if we're awake)
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spendius
 
  1  
Tue 20 Sep, 2005 04:45 pm
We are awake.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Tue 20 Sep, 2005 09:08 pm
spendius wrote:
We are awake.


We're just in shock.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 21 Sep, 2005 03:30 am
I'm a long way off shock.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Wed 21 Sep, 2005 04:23 am
well thank you Spendius, a quizzical view no doubt, but none the less valuable for that.
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