97
   

Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
real life
 
  1  
Tue 5 Feb, 2008 08:47 am
Diest TKO wrote:
I just think that some ....individuals overstep their place when they start trying to damage the core curriculum for students.



That's the great thing about being an American.

We're not taught 'our place'.

You consider your opinion to be sacrosanct, but good education requires that we look at the problems with evolution as well as it's core teaching and assumptions.

Get used to it. You're going to hear a lot more about it.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Tue 5 Feb, 2008 09:52 am
FLORIDA UPDATE

Quote:
Education board urged to call evolution a `theory'
(Bill Kaczor, The Associated Press, February 5, 2008)

A Florida Panhandle lawmaker urged the state Board of Education on Monday to call evolution a "theory" in revised science standards the panel will consider later this month.

The proposed standards for the first time would use the word ''evolution'' instead of such terms as ''biological changes over time.'' They would also require more in-depth study of evolution and other science topics while setting specific benchmarks for students to meet.

They have drawn fire from religious conservatives who believe evolution conflicts with the biblical account of Creation.

Education Commissioner Eric Smith announced the state will hold one more public hearing next Monday in Orlando before the board votes on the standards Feb. 19.

The board was holding a conference call meeting on class size appeals on Monday, but the conversation already had turned to evolution when Rep. Marti Coley, R-Marianna, asked if she could make a statement. Coley said constituents have flooded her office with calls, letters and petitions about the evolution standards. "The Panhandle is a very conservative area and they're adamant in their desire to see the word `theory' -- that's all they're asking -- be in the new science standards along with evolution, not just saying 'evolution' but 'the evolution theory.' "

Board members also said they had been contacted by a law firm that opposes the new standards. Board member Akshay Desai asked for advice on how to respond to a request for a meeting from the firm of David C. Gibbs III, a lawyer who sent the board a memo last month arguing that the proposed standards could face a legal challenge for violating constitutional church-state separation.

Gibbs represented the parents of Terri Schiavo, who was diagnosed as being in a persistent vegetative state, in an unsuccessful effort to prevent her feeding tube from being removed in March 2005. Schiavo died a few days later.

Staffers advised Desai he's free to meet with members of the public, but board Chairman T. Willard Fair suggested that he instead refer such inquiries to the board's legal counsel.

Fair also urged board members to ''try to stay away from having any other comments or contacts or conversations'' on the issue until the Feb. 19 meeting.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 5 Feb, 2008 10:38 am
Quote:
"The Panhandle is a very conservative area and they're adamant in their desire to see the word `theory' -- that's all they're asking -- be in the new science standards along with evolution, not just saying 'evolution' but 'the evolution theory.' "



OK by me Very Happy
0 Replies
 
raprap
 
  1  
Tue 5 Feb, 2008 11:03 am
Evolution is a theory--a scientific one at that. The can even mention ID in a science classroom as long as they don't call it a scientific theory.

Rap
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 5 Feb, 2008 12:43 pm
Reading the last few posts on here leaves little room for coming to any other conclusion that science education in the US is in drastic need of root and branch reform.

The reflective judgment is that faculty of increasing our knowledge of things which don't result from experience but which arise from disinterested reflection.

It attempts to reduce the "world" to a synthetic totality.

Experience merely represents points of departure for reflection and not for drawing any subjective conclusions. Reflection reaches over beyond the known to concepts outside of experience.

For example, when discussing the education of minors it is necessary to take some view of the world in which they will, perforce, live and function and prepare them for it. It is bootless to give them what we ourselves have had given us. The times are indeed changing and at a much faster rate than even Bob Dylan realised when he wrote his world famous psalm on the subject of change.

The objective of reflection is to systematise the known and that must be done according to some principle such as that of the example there.

The outcome to be pursued lies beyond experience and thus experience is not a suitable guiding principle. When it becomes so it must make the assumption that these minors will live in the same world we have done and that is too ridiculous to waste a moment's thought upon.

The necessary principle thus comes within the range of the power of judgement because otherwise the judgment would be determinative and not reflective. It is thus necessary to proceed from reflection i.e. from an a priori quality of the intellect validated only in relation to the process of reflection.

That principle can arise from no other source such as experience, practical reason or subjective personal vanity.

Such a principle is best thought of in terms of the function of it. It generalises on the universal human condition rather than from any particular experience from which anything can be proved.

It is a universal principle that minors are prepared for their future adulthood which is easy enough to manage in a static and simple culture which is unchanged over long periods of time. In a fast changing, dynamic scientific world it ceases to be a simple matter although I recognise that to view it as simple is attractive to mediocre minds as it requires little effort or disturbance of one's fondest beliefs and it can have a large effect as with banging on a dustbin lid.

Hence the exercise of reflection has the job of systematising which is the same as saying to reduce things to an intelligent order.

That requires the reflection to think things through as if the laws proceed from an intelligent cause and Religion provides an agreed and long standing intelligent cause specific to the culture within which it is accepted and measured against competing cultures and religions on the Darwinian principle of success.

Of course, and it's a little patronising to feel the need to point this out, to think things through as if they proceed from an intelligent cause is not the same thing as to assume they do proceed from such a source.

It seems to me that any other way forward will result in anarchy due to all the microcosmic experiences setting themselves at war with each other as each stands upon its dignity as a paragon of excellence.

Quote:
I know of no case where a man added to his dignity by standing on it.


Sir Winston Churchill.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 5 Feb, 2008 01:57 pm
Quote:
Religion consists in a set of things which the average man thinks he believes, and wishes he was certain


Mark Twain-An AUtobiography
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 5 Feb, 2008 02:13 pm
Trite. As were most things he wrote.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 5 Feb, 2008 02:20 pm
I think that the average man, given that he thinks a bit, would rather wish that the atheists are right and that this is it. He is much more likely to wish the religious beliefs are not true.

After all, stepping into the wide blue yonder for infinity is something of a daunting prospect considering all the possibilities he has had placed before him for his consideration.

Even 40 virgins might get a bit wearying after 400 billion years and that is a mere flash of light on infinity's clock.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 5 Feb, 2008 02:34 pm
One might speculate upon that in the matter of the suicide bomber.

Islam has not got our sense of the infinite. Their religious building is closed in. It even prevent direct light getting into the sacred space. Only reflected light enters and that reflected off something near and touchable.

Our's reach upwards straining and diffracting the light in infinitely coloured patterns unique in their blendings and when we sing our voices reach into the lofty dark spaces high above.

Such a comparison works in all the arts.

The suicide bomber must think his heaven is of the here and now and with 40 virgins on offer and the sexual starvation he has been subjected to he can hardly wait.

His mind is not attuned to the infinite.

Mr Twain may have had him in mind.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 5 Feb, 2008 02:55 pm
Do you stand in front of a mirror practicing being profound spendi?
Maybe a few more rehersals . Try to practice some word economy, you sound like a legal brief.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 5 Feb, 2008 03:28 pm
Mere barracking fm.

The certain mark of the stumped.

Your habitual use of the technique, albeit in a rather limited and cliched range of literary endevour, self evidently comes from many years of practice and, unfortunately for your audiences, not all of it in front of a mirror.

I have little doubt that the first man who walked upright was barracked by the anti-IDers within his range. It is hard to see how only going by the empirical evidence could have led to any intelligent adaptations which would then leave us at the mercy of determined unintelligent ones.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 5 Feb, 2008 05:38 pm
Quote:
It is hard to see how only going by the empirical evidence could have led to any intelligent adaptations which would then leave us at the mercy of determined unintelligent ones.


CAn anyone give me a hint what ole J Barleycorn's trying to say?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 5 Feb, 2008 05:56 pm
That anti-IDers are stupid.

That just a subtle hint fm but if you examine it objectively it might lead you into lusher pastures which is the only sensible reason for asking for expert advice on A2K.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 5 Feb, 2008 06:39 pm
Poor spendi, cant help but resort to name calling when the line gets taut.
YOU LOSE.

Second to demonstrating the robust metric of Godwins Law is the admonition to never get angry , it lets the folks see the limiting bounds of your intellect.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 5 Feb, 2008 06:41 pm
No more of this , I promise. I just read the last 2 posts and I find that I am as ridiculous as spendi. Ill back off, Embarrassed
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Tue 5 Feb, 2008 06:52 pm
spendius wrote:
Trite. As were most things he wrote.

Your envy is showing.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 5 Feb, 2008 07:12 pm
Anti-IDers fm have failed to take into account the evolved structure of the human brain.

It's the big gap in their thinking.

We proceed "as if" there is a God because if we hadn't done so we would never have risen out of the disgusting mess that is the animal kingdom.

And the fact the we have risen above such depravity is proof that God exists as a scientifically provable characteristic of the human mind and He chose to endow this mental structure in the animal which had evolved into the most aesthetically beautiful creature (the one which pleases if you know your Aquinas) as is easily seen in the painting of Aphrodite emerging from the waves and many other variations on the general theme.

I presume that you proceed "as if" you are the brain box around here and that's not logically necessary judging by your posts.

It is a difficult argument I'll admit. You won't find it in that shite you read for reassurance.

As I tried to make clear earlier, one can proceed "as if" God exists without being bigoted about Him doing so and evolution science suggests that proceeding in that way has been selected in and is the reason you can have variations in your diet from bananas and uncooked leaves.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 5 Feb, 2008 09:02 pm
Quote:
Anti-IDers fm have failed to take into account the evolved structure of the human brain.

It's the big gap in their thinking.

We proceed "as if" there is a God because if we hadn't done so we would never have risen out of the disgusting mess that is the animal kingdom

As WEndt stated , "Human evolution proceeded within relatively small tribal groups to about 11000 years BP, when, with the burgeoning population we discovered the need to create both Gods and Government"
Both were needed to exercise control over the swelling populations.

Anti-IDjits had thought of it way before there was an IDjicy.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Tue 5 Feb, 2008 09:07 pm
real life wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
I just think that some ....individuals overstep their place when they start trying to damage the core curriculum for students.



That's the great thing about being an American.

We're not taught 'our place'.


That's a monstrous joke and a half. You're propagandized into "your place".
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Tue 5 Feb, 2008 11:39 pm
JTT wrote:
real life wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
I just think that some ....individuals overstep their place when they start trying to damage the core curriculum for students.



That's the great thing about being an American.

We're not taught 'our place'.


That's a monstrous joke and a half. You're propagandized into "your place".



But you came to hold your beliefs without any input whatsoever from any other human being, right?

Your beliefs originated with you, and you never heard the concepts (that you now hold as true) expressed by anyone until you first came to recognize and embrace them, correct?

Same old pap.

Everyone ELSE is a victim of propaganda, and YOU'RE the freethinker. Yeah right.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.11 seconds on 08/21/2025 at 02:05:02