Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

spendius wrote:

c.i. wrote-

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spendi, Please address the issue about gaps in ID;

There are none.

Cool! Then who created the creator? I've always been curious.

T
K
O

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wande wrote-

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personal vanity.... a way of controlling the items discussed.... and mostly to irritate you, spendi!

Now,now wande!. You know very well that you have been doing it from long before I expressed interest in the matter so it can't be to irritate me.

Which leaves personal vanity and control freakery in the frame alone. And all I was doing was demonstrating that personal vanity and control freakery are endemic to anti-IDers and it would be therefore extremely dangerous to allow them anywhere near the levers of power.

If anti-ID ever triumphs then the leaders won't be drawn from any anti-ID posters here but the leaders will be sensible to providing their supporters with lesser occupations in which to practice these attributes.

Obviously one of the many policies they will introduce to facilitate continued support from their minions within their expanding bureaucracies is to make denigrating anti-IDers an arrestable offence.

But thanks for clearing the matter up and showing the viewers how penetrating was my gaze when pin-pointing these qualities in my speculations the other day.

One might have thought that you would desist from the practice after that post of mine but it looks as if personal vanity and control freakery are strong enough to overcome my warning.

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wandel, Sorry to disappoint you, but spendi has more "personal vanity" than you!

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TKO wrote-

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Cool! Then who created the creator? I've always been curious.

Now that really is the remark of an uneducated person which is a bit of a shame really when you bear in mind all the time and money and some mild effort that presumably were invested in your education for nigh on 20 years.

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spendius wrote:

TKO wrote-

Quote:
Cool! Then who created the creator? I've always been curious.

Now that really is the remark of an uneducated person which is a bit of a shame really when you bear in mind all the time and money and some mild effort that presumably were invested in your education for nigh on 20 years.

No kidding TKO....it should be obvious to you by now that the universe is WAAAAAYYYY to complex to NOT have a creator.

The creator, who is infinitely more complex than the universe, obviously has existed forever and didn't need to be created.

The complex universe = needs a creator
The more complex creator = does not need a creator

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c.i. wrote-

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wandel, Sorry to disappoint you, but spendi has more "personal vanity" than you!

An empty assertion running contrary to the facts as presented. Mere back-scratching within the claque. Nobody will be kidded by it except yourself.

wande-You didn't explain how you knew the page bottom was staring you in the face.

Maybe if you did we could all start doing it for the reasons you gave and soon every page on the site would have "next page" on the bottom post and then you would have to start on the next one up and after a few years all the threads would read "next page" all the way up to the top and that's the end of the site just like it would be the end of civilised life if you silly sods get to run things.

What proof do you need my friends that they are vandals.

BTW- It couldn't have been to irritate me anyway, leaving out the other reason I gave, which was conclusive enough on its own,because I'm immune to irritations induced by words.

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spendius wrote:

TKO wrote-

Quote:
Cool! Then who created the creator? I've always been curious.

Now that really is the remark of an uneducated person which is a bit of a shame really when you bear in mind all the time and money and some mild effort that presumably were invested in your education for nigh on 20 years.

Please, educate me. Who created the creator?

I'm asking who.

T
K
O

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What is a bit more interesting is that the bible puts the age of this planet at 7,000 years old. I wonder how long their god existed? Why did it take god over 4.5 billion years to create this planet? Slow thinker?

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maporsche wrote:

spendius wrote:
TKO wrote-

Quote:
Cool! Then who created the creator? I've always been curious.

Now that really is the remark of an uneducated person which is a bit of a shame really when you bear in mind all the time and money and some mild effort that presumably were invested in your education for nigh on 20 years.

No kidding TKO....it should be obvious to you by now that the universe is WAAAAAYYYY to complex to NOT have a creator.

The creator, who is infinitely more complex than the universe, obviously has existed forever and didn't need to be created.

The complex universe = needs a creator
The more complex creator = does not need a creator

Wow, good point! But wait? Surely the creator can't be less complext than me. Doesn't that mean the creator requires a creator.

Wow, science is hard.

T
K
O

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fm wrote-

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Well there Leroy, we can present evolution's problems and gaps and still teach it as a fact.

On the subject of teaching it is essential to the meaning of the word that some learning takes place. Otherwise one might teach the clouds or a brick wall and still call it teaching.

Now- I have mentioned many times that how much learning takes place on the subject of evolution, as covered by the genteel biology teachers in mixed classrooms of frisky teenagers, is not neccessarily at those levels which teachers think it is in the service of their personal vanity, now we have cleared the air on that one, or to justify the inordinate fuss that was made by the plaintiffs at Dover and which creamed those Dover residents who didn't have their fingers in the honeypot. The workers I mean.

And now I have some evidence.

In the pub last night I was explaining,or trying to, how a flywheel works in a coal-mine to bring the cage up from the bottom which was about 3,000m in the case I had experience of. This inspired Vic, my best pal I suppose, to inform us that his father was a miner and he would sometimes bring home a piece of coal with a fossil fern in its surface. He then said that he took one such piece to school and gave it to the teacher who then explained to the class how it had been formed.

So I pounced, as you might expect.

"How was it formed then", I asked, seeing as how I have become interested in such matters as a result of my efforts on this thread in the service of freedom and democracy having in the past taken oaths to uphold these fine institutions.

He replied, "I can't remember".

Thus all he took from the lesson was that the teacher had explained how they were formed and his mind was a complete blank on how they had actually been formed.

Talk about laugh. All these anti-IDers ever do is think that their teaching results in learning which, in this case it didn't, unless knowing that the teacher had explained how they were formed constituted the sum total of what Vic learned. What takes place with more difficult concepts one shudders to think.

Another thing I noticed was that the word "fossils" is a bit embarrassing to say if your teeth are anything like Vic's. He slavered all down his chin getting it out.

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TKO wrote-

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Please, educate me. Who created the creator?

I'm asking who.

If I tell you that the thread has come to an end and that would be a disaster in my opinion.

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spendius wrote:

TKO wrote-

Quote:
Please, educate me. Who created the creator?

I'm asking who.

If I tell you that the thread has come to an end and that would be a disaster in my opinion.

Come on, spendi, you're still avoiding the question.

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fm wrote on another nearby thread-

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Never one for too much respect for arcane terms, I nevertheless am in favor of JD Bernals simple term "Biopoesis" rather than "abiogenesis of dissipative structures." The former isnt a pompous mouthful, and the latter just takes way too much time to say.

Bernal got his chops from being a pioneer in X-ray crystal photography of life pattern crystals (proteins etc) > He gave Ros Franklin the tools with which to break the DNA code (for which Watson and Crick, mostly by outliving her, got a Nobel prize).
The work of Rasmussen and VEnter (separate teams in separate areas ) has provided us with closer and closer reconstruction on the Abiogenesis (day1 and ground zero).

Rasmussen has been working on the standard "bottoms up" model of building the "living state" molecule by using the phospholipid-to lipid bilayer-to formation of tRNA segments via ribozymal peptide linkage. All the feedstock input thats needed, besides a "chemical soup and energy" is a hyfraulic model that feeds water through the system at fairly high volumes while still retaining laminar flow. The best "neighborhood" for the formation by RAsmussens method is the clay deposits (bi-layers of phylosilicates) that occur around high energy suboceanic vents. "Smokers". Fancy that, weve got a planetary slow cooker thats been in existence for at least as long as the planets had water.

Venter's approach has been somewhat more "lazy man" as is his brilliant MO(I think that Venter is the true genius because of his "scientists are lazy" approach to problem solving). Hes had his guys take existing prokaryotic cells and has been REMOVING protein segments until the living state no longer exists.

However, for Creation purposes, I do like the bottom up method because it may be more prokaryote inclusive. ALthough we base our life model on a CArbon/Phosphorus base, RAsmussen has always spoken about transitional life forms that were CArbon-Arsenic, or CArbon-Silica, or Carbon Iron base. These living state models could have been merely transitional and ephemeral but could have developed the simplest tRNA molecule that would have remained stable in a "dissipative environment"

I follow up with Los Alamos on this periodically and the importance of hydraulics has been recently modeled using it as a force in the overall reactions. Noone still knows , although we get closer and closer and there are now predictions when either Rasmussen , or VEnter will unlock the key.

That is a more elaborate version of Vic only knowing that it had been explained.

But what is obvious and easily remembered is the implied streak of self-praise, the personal vanity thing again, which runs through it from end to end.

"Closer and closer" my pert backside. And as for the "predictions" on the magic key--forget it folks. I predict their salary cheques will roll onwards in an ever increasing price level of beer, gas and smokes any objections being suffocated by kapokstorms like the above quote.

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c.i. wrote-

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Come on, spendi, you're still avoiding the question

I've been telling you all along. You have your fat ego in the way of your reading skills, such as they are.

I explained how to improve your reading the other day. If you can't do it don't ask me to put it into words of one syllable and allow you to continue with the free ride you're on.

Nothing easy is worth bothering with. The Greeks thought otherwise as is to be expected of slave owners.

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Basically, you don't have an answer or you are a coward.

Did I say "or?" I meant to say "and."

You should have never claimed there are no holes in ID, it's something you can't defend. I don't know why I waste my time on your posts. You don't bring anything to discussion, accept your useless pub rambles. Most of your posts are indecipherable. Enouhg so that it makes me wonder if you write them while at the pub.

Bottom line: You are wrong, ID has holes. In fact ID is nothing but holes.

T
K
O

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TKO-

I would advise you not to go around regerring to people as cowards.
I DGAFM but you will meet people who do.

Or do you only do it when you're in no danger of a response. You must do I suppose because from what I know of the American psyche you would be in intensive care by now at the best and in no position to post your drivel.

Perhaps you are projecting.

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And I didn't ask you to read my posts. I DGAF about that either. There are bilions of people who don't read my posts. Do you seriously think that my teeth are going to start chattering if you don't.

You have a mighty sense of self importance if you think that which I suppose you must do to mention it.

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spendi says:

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And as for the "predictions" on the magic key--forget it folks. I predict their salary cheques will roll onwards in an ever increasing price level of beer, gas and smokes any objections being suffocated by kapokstorms like the above quote

Lewis Carroll says

Quote:

Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

Whats the difference between the two?? Lewis Carroll, knew of what he was speaking in tha line . ALthough he was a bit of a woman hater too.
Spendi will now pass out for our entertainmet.

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That trick was well known when the Roman Senate was discussing closing the Temple of Isis.

Some viewers on here are aware of that fm and if you are seeking to impress those who are not be my guest.

You do seem to have a need to address the stupid.

Don't worry about me. I'm not bothered. Carry on if it makes you feel better.

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Actually there is a name for it but I can't remember what it was. As a rhetorical device I mean.

I think it rhymed with halitosis. Something like that.

I'll see if I can find the word if anybody is interested.

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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

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