97
   

Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Tue 23 Oct, 2007 08:36 am
FLORIDA UPDATE

Quote:
Our view: It's solid science
(Florida Today Editorial Opinion, October 23, 2007)

Florida schools may soon enter the 21st century by embracing evolution as a core scientific principle.

That's if draft guidelines on science teaching that were released last week are approved by the State Board of Education early next year.

The draft standards require in-depth instruction on the subject and clearly state "evolution is the fundamental concept underlying all of biology and is supported by multiple forms of scientific evidence."

That's not breaking news to the scientific community.

The update -- written by a group of Florida professors and teachers, and based on recommendations of national science groups -- reflects volumes of undeniable evidence underpinning evolutionary concepts.

But it's a quantum leap from the state's abysmally inadequate current standards, which avoid use of the word evolution and which helped earn Florida an F for science teaching in 2005 from the Thomas B. Fordham Institute, a nonpartisan organization that researches educational issues.

Religious groups that deny the validity of evolution and want to mix faith-based ideas such as creationism in with science are likely to protest the move.

But the board should approve the frank teaching rules, which are part of a broader revamp to strengthen science education in public schools.

Florida's children need strong science skills to compete for jobs in a global workforce, and evolution is a critical part of that package.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 23 Oct, 2007 01:21 pm
wande quoted-

Quote:
Our view: It's solid science


That must have caused some smirking in scientific circles wande.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 23 Oct, 2007 01:41 pm
I see that Spendius is listed as "Guru In Training". Thats probably because hes mostly unemployed .
0 Replies
 
stlstrike3
 
  1  
Tue 23 Oct, 2007 01:46 pm
wandeljw wrote:
FLORIDA UPDATE

Quote:
Our view: It's solid science
(Florida Today Editorial Opinion, October 23, 2007)

Florida schools may soon enter the 21st century by embracing evolution as a core scientific principle.

That's if draft guidelines on science teaching that were released last week are approved by the State Board of Education early next year.

The draft standards require in-depth instruction on the subject and clearly state "evolution is the fundamental concept underlying all of biology and is supported by multiple forms of scientific evidence."

That's not breaking news to the scientific community.

The update -- written by a group of Florida professors and teachers, and based on recommendations of national science groups -- reflects volumes of undeniable evidence underpinning evolutionary concepts.

But it's a quantum leap from the state's abysmally inadequate current standards, which avoid use of the word evolution and which helped earn Florida an F for science teaching in 2005 from the Thomas B. Fordham Institute, a nonpartisan organization that researches educational issues.

Religious groups that deny the validity of evolution and want to mix faith-based ideas such as creationism in with science are likely to protest the move.

But the board should approve the frank teaching rules, which are part of a broader revamp to strengthen science education in public schools.

Florida's children need strong science skills to compete for jobs in a global workforce, and evolution is a critical part of that package.


FINALLY some institutions are stopping the backslide of American education into the dark ages.

This is exceptional news.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Tue 23 Oct, 2007 01:47 pm
farmerman,
I started a thread as soon as I realized that spendi is undergoing training:
Guru Seminars
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Tue 23 Oct, 2007 02:58 pm
stlstrike3 wrote:
wandeljw wrote:
FLORIDA UPDATE

Quote:
Our view: It's solid science
(Florida Today Editorial Opinion, October 23, 2007)

Florida schools may soon enter the 21st century by embracing evolution as a core scientific principle.

That's if draft guidelines on science teaching that were released last week are approved by the State Board of Education early next year.

The draft standards require in-depth instruction on the subject and clearly state "evolution is the fundamental concept underlying all of biology and is supported by multiple forms of scientific evidence."

That's not breaking news to the scientific community.

The update -- written by a group of Florida professors and teachers, and based on recommendations of national science groups -- reflects volumes of undeniable evidence underpinning evolutionary concepts.

But it's a quantum leap from the state's abysmally inadequate current standards, which avoid use of the word evolution and which helped earn Florida an F for science teaching in 2005 from the Thomas B. Fordham Institute, a nonpartisan organization that researches educational issues.

Religious groups that deny the validity of evolution and want to mix faith-based ideas such as creationism in with science are likely to protest the move.

But the board should approve the frank teaching rules, which are part of a broader revamp to strengthen science education in public schools.

Florida's children need strong science skills to compete for jobs in a global workforce, and evolution is a critical part of that package.


FINALLY some institutions are stopping the backslide of American education into the dark ages.

This is exceptional news.

Yes, exceptionally good news. I actually think that some of the progress that is being made in schools is a direct [counter]result of the Creation/ID effort to undermine science education.

The Creationists were having some success sneaking their dogma past intimidated school boards and pandering politicians. But once they started having success, they became visible, and now that they are visible under a glaring light (the Dover decision), larger forces are rising in response.

Good work everyone.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 23 Oct, 2007 03:35 pm
ros wrote-

Quote:
larger forces are rising in response.


Dead right ros. Just you wait till you can see the whites of their eyes.

Well- maybe not you. The ones who inherit your wonderful scientific programme unhindered by any moral constraints.

You might think in the self indulgence of your complacency that an anti-IDer can have moral values but that's because you have little or no power. People with power are another matter.

It's like the bloke who never has any ladies making eyes at him going around boasting of his fidelity and virtuous morals.

The fiction writers and movie makers, almost without exception, have sought to portray science as a sinister force despite the fantastic life-style it has brought for which, I for one can find no words fit to express my gratitude.

It has nothing to do with " volumes of undeniable evidence underpinning evolutionary concepts". And "volumes" is a bit slippery. It nearly sounds like a "great deal" or a "very great deal".

So if they have conned you with a slippery word like that, it having been rubbed down liberally with snake oil, what will the hyperbole look like when the men of God have been redeployed to the garbage units and the "larger forces" have risen, like a loaf in the oven, and need you to work hard which you are keen to do as gold stars get you a chit for a shag.

Or are you thinking of playing a part in the rise of the larger forces.

The pastors and vicars and priests haven't done so bad considering the known recalcitrance of human nature. At least I don't think they have. They only work on getting 5 out of 10 anyway. They are humble people unlike the anti-IDers on here. One can almost sense you crowing over this report under the totally stupid headline from Florida which means nothing to me. And it sure doesn't mean anything scientific to those concerned with it from what I could see.

Those humble people have cathedrals you can just walk right on in. Cyclotrons etc are all fenced off with skull and crossbones signs all over the place. Even if you could visit after a rigmarole with paper work and a nod from the right man, for favours received, there's nothing to see. All the action is invisible apart from the nerds, adult swots, twiddling knobs and gawping at computer screens nodding their heads sagely from time to time. (I could go on there but it's pub time.) In a cathedral the Majesty of the Creator is being guessed at with the most wonderful works of art the world ever saw- just walk on in- no messing about. Nothing to hide in here. It's His fault. Take it on the chin. Try to work out what you did wrong instead of calling in the legal eagles.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 23 Oct, 2007 05:13 pm
And Calamity Jane, who lives in a world awash with "scientists" in San Diego, told me, and viewers with sensitive antennae, when I tried to praise them out of loyalty to my sex, that they were all nerds. (Questions Games I think when I was an "Enthusiast".) (And Francis was boasting that she had cast an eye over him in what he thought was an approving manner.)

And if there's one scientific fact I know it is that when a woman refers to a bloke as a nerd he is guaranteed to be one. 100% of the time.

In N.Korea I daresay very few of the ladies are still capable of understanding the concept. That's a scientific society I believe.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 24 Oct, 2007 04:32 am
ros wrote-

Quote:
Yes, exceptionally good news. I actually think that some of the progress that is being made in schools is a direct [counter]result of the Creation/ID effort to undermine science education.



Quote:
Subjectivism
After the exclusion of God, there is need of an idol; the necessity lies in human nature. All the nations of old had their idols, even the Israelites, when at times they rebelled against the Prophets. The shape of the idols varies with progress. The savages made them of wood, the civilized pagans of silver and gold, and our own reading age makes them of philosophical systems. Kant did not draw the last consequences from his "autonomy of reason"; it was done by Fichte, Schelling, and Hegel. This Idealism developed into Subjectivism in the widest sense of the word, viz., into the complete emancipation of the human mind and will from God. The idol is the human Ego. The consequences are that truth and justice lose their eternal character and become relative concepts; man changes with the ages, and with him his own creations; what he calls true and right in one century, may become false and wrong in another. In regard to truth we have the explicit statement of Paulsen, that "there is no philosophy eternally valid". Relative to justice, Hartmann defines Kant's autonomy in the following words: "It means neither more nor less than this, that in moral matters I am the highest tribunal without appeal." Religion, which forms the principal part of justice, becomes likewise a matter of subjective inclination. Harnack calls submission to the doctrine of others treason against personal religion; and Nietzsche defends his idol by calling Christianity the immortal shame of mankind. The axiom is pronounced in more dignified form by Pfleiderer (1907). "In the science of history", he says, "the appearance on earth of a superhuman being cannot be considered". Perhaps in the most general way it is formulated by Paulsen (1908): "Switching off the supernatural from the natural and historical world". Yet, all these subjective axioms are only more or less scientific forms of the plain Straussian postulate (1835): "We are no longer Christians".


The phrase- "I am the highest tribunal without appeal." is the position one would logically expect from anti-IDers and, lo and behold, there they are unable to stop themselves living by assertions.

Link that to total power and it's goodnight. It is real "coffee morning with the ladies knitting circle" to think you can have atheism and freedom. Pie in the sky. It's a religious belief of monumental ignorance which can lead to no other destination than corruption and ruin.

And take a good look at ros's statement quoted there from a Pomposity Quoitent point of view. Imagine that level of righteousness lecturing the workers at the dawn parade about their duties and responsibilities. The mind boggles. The knees knock. He doesn't even know, or chooses to pretend so, that Popes have been at the forefront of university establishment for hundreds of years and have been at the forefront in scientific research as they are now. Undermining science my Aunt Fanny.

Anti-IDers are undermining science.

Quote:
But once they started having success, they became visible, and now that they are visible under a glaring light (the Dover decision), larger forces are rising in response.


Let's put anti-ID under a "glaring light". Fat chance of that when they bolt like a rabbit down its hole at the first mention of the social consequences of their arid and clinical philosophy.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Wed 24 Oct, 2007 05:12 am
spendius wrote:
And Calamity Jane, who lives in a world awash with "scientists" in San Diego, told me, and viewers with sensitive antennae, when I tried to praise them out of loyalty to my sex, that they were all nerds. (Questions Games I think when I was an "Enthusiast".) (And Francis was boasting that she had cast an eye over him in what he thought was an approving manner.)


Looks like it left more scars in your psyche than the average poster in this thread did, Spendi.

Forget it, man...
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 24 Oct, 2007 05:55 am
How does one forget these things? It's impossible.

Actually I was being somewhat complimentary I thought.

The real point of the post was that Cal called them "nerds" when I stuck up for them. And to help validate her judgement I offered the evidence I did.

I apologise for any inconvenience. I hadn't realised that educated Frenchmen stood on their dignity quite so strenuously. Have you seen what has been said about me?

It is a well know principle in psychology that having the piss taken out of oneself is health giving. It helps to counteract that dangerous impression a lot of people have got of themselves as a result of their parent's constant approval which both a Jesuitical and military training are specifically designed to eradicate.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Wed 24 Oct, 2007 07:16 am
spendius wrote:
I apologise for any inconvenience.

No need to apologise, Spendi, it was not inconvenient, just surprising...


spendius wrote:
I hadn't realised that educated Frenchmen stood on their dignity quite so strenuously.

Glad you realised it by now..


spendius wrote:
Have you seen what has been said about me?

Yes, I've seen it. But, even though certain comments have some merit, depending on the time you post, some others just reflect what you just say hereafter:

spendius wrote:
It is a well know principle in psychology that having the piss taken out of oneself is health giving.


However,

when you wrote:
It helps to counteract that dangerous impression a lot of people have got of themselves as a result of their parent's constant approval which both a Jesuitical and military training are specifically designed to eradicate.

I don't feel the least concerned, not having had permanent parents' approval..
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 24 Oct, 2007 07:41 am
Quote:
Quote:
Subjectivism
After the exclusion of God, there is need of an idol; the necessity lies in human nature. All the nations of old had their idols, even the Israelites, when at times they rebelled against the Prophets. The shape of the idols varies with progress. The savages made them of wood, the civilized pagans of silver and gold, and our own reading age makes them of philosophical systems. Kant did not draw the last consequences from his "autonomy of reason"; it was done by Fichte, Schelling, and Hegel. This Idealism developed into Subjectivism in the widest sense of the word, viz., into the complete emancipation of the human mind and will from God. The idol is the human Ego. The consequences are that truth and justice lose their eternal character and become relative concepts; man changes with the ages, and with him his own creations; what he calls true and right in one century, may become false and wrong in another. In regard to truth we have the explicit statement of Paulsen, that "there is no philosophy eternally valid". Relative to justice, Hartmann defines Kant's autonomy in the following words: "It means neither more nor less than this, that in moral matters I am the highest tribunal without appeal." Religion, which forms the principal part of justice, becomes likewise a matter of subjective inclination. Harnack calls submission to the doctrine of others treason against personal religion; and Nietzsche defends his idol by calling Christianity the immortal shame of mankind. The axiom is pronounced in more dignified form by Pfleiderer (1907). "In the science of history", he says, "the appearance on earth of a superhuman being cannot be considered". Perhaps in the most general way it is formulated by Paulsen (1908): "Switching off the supernatural from the natural and historical world". Yet, all these subjective axioms are only more or less scientific forms of the plain Straussian postulate (1835): "We are no longer Christians".
from the Catholic Encyclopedia, just so we have our citations properly noted http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13598b.htm
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Wed 24 Oct, 2007 08:45 am
FLORIDA UPDATE (continued)

Quote:
Plan to Require Evolution To Be Taught in Schools
(By John Chambliss, The Ledger, October 24, 2007)

For the first time, standards in science have been written that would require Florida public-school students be taught about evolution.

The new standards released last week say that evolution will be taught beginning in the third grade. Current standards do not use the word evolution, preferring the term "biological changes over time".

The state Department of Education is expected to approve the new standards in January.

The proposal will likely fuel a backlash from those who believe in intelligent design, the idea that life began as a result of an intelligent force or being. The new science standards exclude intelligent design.

Evolutionary science says life, including plants, animals and humans, developed through a series of small changes over very long periods of time. The theory conflicts with the biblical interpretation of the Earth's creation and is strongly opposed by many conservative Christians.

A 45-member committee appointed by the state Department of Education began revising the science standards in May in response to a failing 2005 report on Florida's public school science curriculum by the Thomas B. Fordham Institute, a Washington-based nonprofit group.

The Fordham study said Florida's standards are "sorely lacking in content," "naive," and that life sciences and evolution are given "shorter shrift than any of the other" science topics.

"The superficiality of the treatment of evolutionary biology alone justifies the grade 'F,'" the report stated.

Jonathan Smith, a Lakeland resident and a representative of the National Center for Science Education, a nonprofit group critical of intelligent design, helped write the new standards.

"It (new standards) closed the door on any ambiguity" about evolution, Smith said. "There isn't both sides. There is only one side as far as science is concerned." That side is evolution, he said.

But Mickey Carter, pastor at Landmark Baptist Church in Haines City, said the revisions will be a disservice to students.

He said there should be a balance between both intelligent design and evolution.

"We are denying freedom of ideas, speech and shutting down one side," Carter said. "The kids ought to be able to study both sides of it so we don't just turn out a bunch of rubber-stamped robots in the classroom."

Carter said that science is limited in its ability to determine every fact. "When it's all said and done, folks just don't give God enough credit," Carter said. "Too many things on this world cannot just be an accident. You've got to give some credit to some intelligence."

Norm Holland, a dean at Southeastern University and professor of biological chemistry, said intelligent design should be taught alongside evolution. Southeastern describes itself as a "Christ-centered university."

"There are probably six or seven ideas that should be taught," Holland said. "In my opinion you need to consider all bits of information."

Numerous theories are taught at Southeastern, including creationism, an effort to mix science and religion, intelligent design and evolution, Holland said.

"We don't leave anything out," he said.

Becky Braaten, senior curriculum coordinator for secondary sciences with Polk Schools, said she will take an in depth look at the new science standards during meetings this week in Orlando about the changes. "We will talk about why the framers did what they did," Braaten said.

Smith, who helped write the new standards, said they are much deeper and complex and aren't just about evolution.

"It (evolution) wasn't really an issue in framing the standards," he said. "That would be like saying let's discuss the alternative theories of gravity."

Wolf, the Florida Citizens for Science leader, added that the current standards are too vague. The proposed ones focus on fewer topics and should ease the pace and stress of students and teachers.

Carla Savage, a chemistry and physical science teacher at Auburndale High, said students often asked her about evolution and God.

"I try to emphasize that there is a natural world and supernatural world," said Savage, who previously taught biology. "Even though there is a place for that in people's lives, it does not belong in the classroom."

She said it's important for students to grasp all ideas related to evolution.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 24 Oct, 2007 09:28 am
Bernie- What difference does it make where a piece of writing appeared. Can you not say anything about the piece.

Is everything in the Catholic canon suspect merely because it's in the Catholic canon.

You should be defending "the complete emancipation of the human mind and will from God" as that is your position I think, as it was de Sade's who didn't bottle out on it. He had no qualms, read literally, that in moral matters he was " the highest tribunal without appeal." And you should be explaining the high moral tone of subjectivism.

We all await conversion. The non-Christians ought to have little difficulty in persuading the biggest contributors to Global Warming, it is said by some scientists, that they are a law unto themselves regulated only by the class derived laws of the land.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 24 Oct, 2007 09:39 am
spendius

Yes, I could address it. My first post on a discussion board (abuzz, 7 or 8 years ago) was an extended address to some of these arguments. Many other instances followed. I no longer consider such discussions either worthwhile or important.

As regards citing one's sources (and providing some convenient means for readers to access the source) it is a necessary protocol for good scholarship.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 24 Oct, 2007 11:26 am
First point- why are you on here then if the bone-marrow of this debate is neither worthwhile nor important. The dynamic tension between the individual will and the restrictions of his/her society is at the root of all politics. Explain the management of that tension in the absence of religious instruction. You only have fear of the law. Paganism would arise again.

It's a bit weak saying-

Quote:
Yes, I could address it.


That seems to me to be an odd sort of protocol.

I thought a citation unneccessary as a compliment to the intelligence of my readers who could easily discern the quote was from a Catholic source. That is the only source of such a quote.

I think you are floundering. You have a lot of sympathy with the quote but don't like to say so is how I interpret your response.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 24 Oct, 2007 11:30 am
The British Cabinet

Prime Minister : Gordon Brown (Politics and History)

Defence Secretary: Des Browne (Lawyer)

Environment Secretary: Hilary Benn (Russian Language)

Business and Enterprise: John Hutton (Lawyer)

Commons Leader: Harriet Harman (Lawyer)

Work and Pensions: Peter Hain (Econ. Political Science).

Transport Secretary: Ruth Kelly (PPE)

Communities: Hazel Blears (Lawyer)

Chief Whip: Geoff Hoon (Lawyer)

Schools and children: Ed Balls (Journalist)

Cabinet Office Minister: Ed Miliband (Journalist)

Northern Ireland Secretary: Shaun Woodward (Professional politician)

Lords Leader: Baroness Ashton (Housewife)

Chief Treasury Secretary: Andy Burnham (English).

Innovation and Universities: John Denham ( Chemistry-not practiced).

Olympics and London: Tessa Jowell (Psychiatric social work).

Children and Youth Justice: Beverley Hughes (Nanny statist).

Lords Chief Whip: Lord Grocott (No info)

Attorney General: Baroness Scotland (Lawyer)

Housing: Yvette Cooper (PPE)

Africa, Asia and UN: Lord Malloch Brown (History).

Parliamentary Private Secretaries:
Ian Austin, (Journalist)
Angela E Smith (Professional politician).

You see how well thought of scientists are in the UK. Not a one and as far as I know there hasn't been one let loose with power since Lord Chandos during the war.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 24 Oct, 2007 12:04 pm
wande quoted-

Quote:
Evolutionary science says life, including plants, animals and humans, developed through a series of small changes over very long periods of time.


Is some young New England schoolmistress going to explain to 15-18 year olds in mixed classes about the sexual selection bit relating to humans or is that going to be censored?

If it is censored the case is then conceded in favour of partial bourgeois science and no amount of boring pussy-willow pollination lessons are going to alter that. And how will birth control and abortion be justified when they both assume the selection has taken place and thus the very laws of evolution are being countermanded in a classroom teaching evolution. And for reasons derived from religious doctrines.

Maybe Watered Down Evolution is the correct phrase. We say we are doing evolution and hoping nobody notices we are not.

Bear in mind that the schoolmistress is probably engaging in sexual activity herself. And there will be one or two bright sparks goading her.

I hope they don't start citing turtle doves, prarie voles and Humphrey Bogart to justify monogamy in the face of a more or less complete breakdown in marital relations.

Evolution science scoffs at human monogamy. The pretty things look the other way.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 24 Oct, 2007 12:06 pm
Science standards!!!! You must be joking.

Adults doing minuets more like on power kicks. Which in the last analysis is a sexual activity.

The kids are nowhere.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.16 seconds on 08/03/2025 at 12:49:11