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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Sun 30 Sep, 2007 03:58 pm
UC ADMISSIONS LAWSUIT UPDATE

Quote:
More Bob Jones "Biology for Christian Schools" Howlers
(by Mike Dunford, ScienceBlogs.com, September 29, 2007)

A couple of weeks ago, I posted two ridiculous quotes that are found in the Bob Jones textbook that's involved in the California Creationism lawsuit. I'm still wading through these texts and Behe's report explaining why it's really a very good book for high school students to use to learn biology. It's a slow process, and a painful one, but I've found another couple of outstanding quotes to share with you.

This time, I'm including three different types of quote. There are a couple where the authors say things have absolutely nothing to do with science of any kind (and are totally out to lunch even by the standards of a lot of religious people I know). There's one where the book takes a brief detour into right-wingnuttery. I've also got one quote that I'm including as a special treat for those of you who might still want to claim that the book's fine if you just overlook the insane religious stuff - an example of a case where the authors manage to mangle a very basic concept from genetics.

We'll start with the insane, and move from there to the political, then conclude with the merely wrong.

On page 162 we find this: "Some babies die very soon after birth as a result of genetic disorders. It appears that God designed into the genetic mechanism of humans (and most organisms) a genetic screen that eliminates many greatly deformed individuals, preventing major genetic disorders from continuing."

The authors do not explain why God sometimes does this near birth, and at other times (as in cystic fibrosis) over a period of many painful years.

On page 201, "Thought Question" 3 reads: "Compile a list of modern beliefs, practices, or activities that reflect the philosophy of evolution rather than a biblical philosophy." The answer is found in the Teacher's Edition: "(1) Communism denies the existence of God. (2) Advances in technology will solve all of man's physical and social problems. (3) The ecumenical movement endorses humanism as the world religion. (4) Environmental control is overemphasized, and man's God-given command to exercise dominion is deemphasized."

Moving from the indoctrination in extremist religious beliefs to the political wingnuttery, we find this on page 615: "The level of carbon dioxide (CO2) is normally kept in check by green plants, which utilize it for photosynthesis. The combustion of fossil fuels like coal and petroleum also releases large amounts of CO2, which is known to be increasing in the atmosphere. The earth's temperature is kept warm enough to encourage abundant life as a result of the insulating effect of a layer of CO2 and other gasses. These gases allow sunlight to pass through but also trap the radiation that bounces off the earth, keeping it from returning to space. This is known as the greenhouse effect. Some scientists have analyzed long-term climate data and have noted a slight increase in the earth's temperature over the past century. While the data is far from conclusive, some blame CO2 and other "greenhouse gasses" for the increase. They blame this perceived global warming on car engines, electric power plants, and other major sources of CO2 emissions."

On the same page of the Teacher's Edition, the authors note: "An increase in CO2 has been positively linked to great increases in plant productivity (since it is one of the possible limiting factors for photosynthesis). We may be limiting our ability to produce higher levels of food by limiting the artificial creation of CO2."

To be clear, then, the authors point out that the levels of carbon dioxide are increasing, and claim that limiting the increase might be bad because carbon dioxide is a potential limiting resource for plants. Anyone with the critical thinking skills of a turnip can spot the small issue with that (if it's an actual limiting factor, the levels wouldn't be increasing). Unfortunately, "turnip" seems to be the best description of the level of critical thinking encouraged in the Christian madrassas that use these books.

We've covered the religious fanaticism and the wingnuttery. It's time to move on to the merely wrong. On page 141, we find this: "Not all genetic traits are exhibited as purely dominant or recessive. Many alleles express what is termed incomplete dominance. Incomplete dominance occurs when two or more alleles are expressed, resulting in a phenotype that is intermediate, or a blending, of the two traits. Flower color in snapdragons and other common garden flowers demonstrates this condition. When homozygous red and homozygous white snapdragons are crossed, all of the heterozygous offspring are pink. Why? In snapdragons neither red nor white is completely dominant; therefore, in a heterozygous flower both alleles express themselves, resulting in a pink color. .."

In incomplete dominance, only one allele is expressed. The pink color of a snapdragon is not the result of one allele making a red color and one allele making a white color. It's the result of one allele that makes a red color, but in different amounts depending on how many copies of the allele are present. If there are two copies, a lot of red is made and the plant looks red. If there's one copy, then not as much red is produced, and the plant looks pink.

The confusion that results from this flawed explanation would not be terribly bad, were it not for the fact that the book goes on to compound the error on the next page, when they discuss codominance: "Codominance occurs when two alleles for a gene are both expressed in a heterozygous offspring. This may sound the same as incomplete dominance, but there is a distinct difference. In incomplete dominance, there is a blending of the characteristics in the heterozygous offspring - red + white = pink. In codominance, both alleles are expressed with no blending. For example, hair color in many mammals is a codominant characteristic. If a horse that is homozygous for red hair is crossed with one homozygous for white, a color pattern termed roan - white hairs intermingled with red hairs - is produced..."

To begin with, had they defined "incomplete dominance" correctly, it would not sound the same as the definition for codominance. They compound the confusion by bringing "blending" into the picture. It's possible for codominance to result in intermediate appearances. It also makes it harder for them to explain why the A and B blood groups are codominant instead of incompletely dominant, when they cover that a couple of pages down the line.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Sun 30 Sep, 2007 04:48 pm
I imagine that will provide an opportunity for some fun but I'm busy with a thing about weasels on the Politics threads so it will have to be held in abeyance for now.
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Vengoropatubus
 
  1  
Sun 30 Sep, 2007 05:51 pm
spendius wrote:
Vengo wrote-

Quote:
Spendi, is your problem with evolution or natural selection?


I have no problem with either when applied to non-human organisms. Nature, the atheist's word for God, is red in tooth and claw.

I am against teaching kids that intellectually they are animals and thus are following the true path by engaging in tooth and claw activities simply to satisfy a few psuedo-scientific poseurs.


I, for one, have never been taught that I should engage my peers in head butting competitions, like mountain-goats do, to compete for women.

Also, the pseudo-scientific poseurs you're talking about who advocate humans acting like animals have obviously never been introduced to the notion of a social contract. It can be in the interest of an individual to make such a contract, and it is through such contracts that we've arrived at the incredibly diverse and often terrifying social constructs that we see today.
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spendius
 
  1  
Sun 30 Sep, 2007 06:05 pm
Vengo wrote-

Quote:
I, for one, have never been taught that I should engage my peers in head butting competitions, like mountain-goats do, to compete for women.


That just goes to show how inadequate an education is not under the guidance of priests. The ladies with the diplomas from the State College of Teacher Training are not Mae Wests by any stretch.

If the alternative, social contracts, alarm you what am I supposed to say.
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Vengoropatubus
 
  1  
Sun 30 Sep, 2007 06:10 pm
Social contracts don't alarm me, social constructs sometimes do. Y'know, dictatorial regimes that feel like they have the right to just kill people and such.
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spendius
 
  1  
Sun 30 Sep, 2007 06:23 pm
I think we can all unite around that flagpole Vengo.

But you did use the word "terrifying" in relation to social contracts and not without reason I might add.

It's a bit of a dilemma whether liberal virtuousness leads to Big Brother or not. The trend seems to be in that direction. And it's real easy to do. It must be very tempting for the intellectually challenged who object to not being the firking centre of attention.
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Vengoropatubus
 
  1  
Sun 30 Sep, 2007 06:27 pm
Well, you should really give your definition of the word liberal, since liberal means so many things in so many contexts, including the sense where liberals favor government that's only large enough to protect individual liberties, which I'm fairly certain wouldn't include Big Brother.
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spendius
 
  1  
Mon 1 Oct, 2007 07:24 am
Vengo-

Be reassured then by being "fairly certain" that liberals don't lead to Big Brother. That is where liberals intend to arrive at. They are people who want to be noticed and only dare offer solutions with which we all agree but bear little or no relation to reality. They think that human nature is a plaything like the dolls and toy soldiers they must have all played with in their formative years.

wande quoted-

Quote:
"Some babies die very soon after birth as a result of genetic disorders. It appears that God designed into the genetic mechanism of humans (and most organisms) a genetic screen that eliminates many greatly deformed individuals, preventing major genetic disorders from continuing."


Change "God" to "Nature" and that would be true. Mr Dunford's problem is that he doesn't understand the nature of God. It is his straw man.

I saw a paper many years ago which said that infants, both animal and human, can emit certain frequencies in their cries which causes a reflex in the mother which kills them. I presume that is one of the reasons why infanticide is often treated leniently in some enlightened jurisdictions.

I don't see why Thought Question 3 is "ridiculous". Many people agree with the views expressed. I can't even see what point he's trying to make. Does he not exercise dominion over animals? Does he think that advances in technology will solve all of man's physical and social problems? Doesn't "Communism" deny the existence of God?

How can those be classed as "indoctrination in extremist religious beliefs"?.

And why is the stuff about CO2 "wingnuttery"? He has a bad case of assertion-nuttery.

Surely no editor, not even some of the lax ones whose efforts you quote so often, would publish that load of incoherent tripe.

What are you up to wande? You are discrediting your own side.

I would ask the mods to remove it if I was you.
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ykw
 
  1  
Mon 1 Oct, 2007 08:45 am
Can anyone figure out how the dinosaurs supposedly went extinct?

http://prehistoricsillustrated.com/images_dms/allosaurus/allo_000011_w173_a.jpg
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spendius
 
  1  
Mon 1 Oct, 2007 08:59 am
I don't think many of us care mate. I certainly don't.

Just type "Dinosaurs" into Google and click on search. I feel pretty sure that every possible explanation that the wit of man can think up will be right there ready for you to choose which one you fancy.

I think they got too big for their boots. Maybe they got too repulsive to contemplate copulation.
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maporsche
 
  1  
Mon 1 Oct, 2007 09:03 am
spendius wrote:
I don't think many of us care mate.


I think you're wrong here.
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spendius
 
  1  
Mon 1 Oct, 2007 09:35 am
OK mapie- I don't know anyone who cares. I have met one or two who said they did but they didn't really. It was just that it flattered their sense of something or other to pose as if they did for short periods in discoursing company and they quickly forgot about it when their glass was empty and attracting the barmaid's attention moved to the top of their agenda.

I was in the centre of a small town this afternoon and I must have passed a few hundred people and not a single one gave the slightest inkling that they cared about dinosaurs becoming extinct and the reason why or that they had ever thought about it.

When there are thousands of Westerners working in terrible conditions in Africa and other places because they "care" about people's welfare I think a word like "care" should be their exclusive preserve.

Anybody can say they "care". It's easy-peasy.
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maporsche
 
  1  
Mon 1 Oct, 2007 11:06 am
spendius wrote:
OK mapie- I don't know anyone who cares.


And you feel it's ok to make sweeping judgements about 6.5 billion people just because you are not fortunate enough to hang out with people who care about the history of the earth.

Too much time at the bar mate.
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spendius
 
  1  
Mon 1 Oct, 2007 11:25 am
Yeah- I don't care about the history of the earth. I can't see what there is to care about. I suppose that if I made my living out of the dead become rather than the living becoming I might be slightly interested in the dinosaur extinction (s).

Why dinosaurs anyway? There are plenty more extinctions. Going on right now. Is it the spectacular nature of dinosaurs?

People who know what their own language means are getting a bit rare.

Give us your explanation then about the matter. Give us all a good laugh.
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maporsche
 
  1  
Mon 1 Oct, 2007 11:31 am
spendius wrote:

Give us your explanation then about the matter. Give us all a good laugh.


I would give my explanation but I really don't see how it's relevant to this conversation. I don't know why it was even brought up, however I did disagree with your gross generalization about mankind.
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spendius
 
  1  
Mon 1 Oct, 2007 11:51 am
Well I stand by it. So we will have to beg to differ.

But I would be slightly interested in your explanation. It can't possibly be less relevant to this thread than wande's last post.

Dinosaurs had no competitors just like anti-IDers don't and such a situation created a vacuum of humility which IDers don't share and they just gorged themselves to stupifaction like consumer society is trying to do now that pride goes unchecked by a higher spirituality. In fact in an anti-ID world the concept of pride is defunct.

Beware of people speaking for ID whose dress and appearence give evidence of pride.
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spendius
 
  1  
Mon 1 Oct, 2007 01:00 pm
Vengo wrote-

Quote:
Well, you should really give your definition of the word liberal, since liberal means so many things in so many contexts, including the sense where liberals favor government that's only large enough to protect individual liberties, which I'm fairly certain wouldn't include Big Brother.


Actually, there's a book fresh out on the very subject by AC Grayling called Towards The Light; The Story of the Struggles for Liberty and Rights That Made the Modern West. I haven't read it but I've seen a review of it by Roger Scruton who is currently Research Professor for the Institute for the Psychological Sciences where he teaches philosophy at their graduate school in both Washington and Oxford and a well known writer in England.

He says that the theme of the book is "the history of the liberal idea of political order".

That liberalism is a fight against the nobility, the Church (RC obviously), and absolute monarchs to win "equal rights (that's a laugh) and freedoms (another laugh) for the people. My italics.

He says that Mr Grayling "recycles the Victorian notion that the West has progressed from oppressive superstition to enlightened liberty" and that his account of the heroes of this progression is scholarly enough to make up for his "one-dimensional view of Western history , in which the Good forces of liberty, secularism, democracy, equality and enlightenment are locked in a struggle with the Bad forces of religion, authority, hierarchy, inequality and darkness"

He cannot see, Prof Scruton says, that while it is "right to believe that people aspire to freedom and light" they "also need obedience and shadows".

Quote:
Grayling sees all liberal ideas as summed up in a single moral imperative, which is the defence of "human rights". His hostility to Christianity causes him to ignore the church's defence of natural law, from which the idea of human rights derives. The rights defended in secular terms by John Locke were spelled out more thoroughly by Thomas Aquinas who is given only fleeting credit.


Quote:
To lay the sins of Torquemada at the door of his faith is like blaming Grayling's ideal of liberty for the Terror. After all, didn't Robespierre describe what he was doing in just those terms---as "the despotism of liberty"?


The article is accompanied by a picture of Robespierre struggling with the executioners under the guillotine.

Quote:
The UN Declaration of Human Rights tells us in the same breath that everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person (as Aquinas and Locke acknowledged) and also that everyone has a right to medical care, social services, unemployment benefit and whatever else is "indispensible for his dignity and the free development of his personality".


The Marquis de Sade would have agreed with the last bit.

Quote:
To Grayling, the UN declaration is "the greatest achievement in the sphere of rights and liberties that the world has hitherto seen". To me (Scruton), it is the beginning of the "rights inflation" that is ruining the delicate and hitherto durable equilibrium maintained by the common law. Grayling is similarly indulgent towards the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen , which launched the French revolution on its path to unrestrained murder, and is unable to see what Burke was getting at when he argued that abstract rights without concrete institutions will lead of their own accord to anarchy.


To prevent anarchy we vote in Big Brother.

Prof Scruton mentions the removal of the right to hunt as having been taken away by a "dictatorial House of Commons"--a euphemism for wet liberal hypocrites.

I will mention the right of a pub landlord to allow smoking in his pub (his public house") has been taken away by the same bunch of WLHs on the basis of two lies repeated endlessly; a technique favoured by J Goebells and stressed by George Orwell.

He concludes with a warning about "airy declarations of abstract political goals, combined with a contempt for real people".

The "liberals" on these threads, in what I understood the American usage to be, are guilty of both on a daily basis. Hourly when they have no one else to boss about.

Actually Vengo, it's the party to be in. It's winning. It practices "entryism".

In another review of a book about Mr Bush Max Hastings concluded that the only way for Americans to avoid a constant stream of Mr Bush's is to establish a Monarchy or choose the president by raffle.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 1 Oct, 2007 02:13 pm
After all is said and done, it's the bloke with the most toys who wins. The majority of us are relegated to the bottom 90 percent living on this planet.
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spendius
 
  1  
Mon 1 Oct, 2007 04:51 pm
Bottom 90% of what.

I'm in the top 1% of silly sods, toss pots, ne'er-do-wells, lazy bastards, skivers, work-shys and general all-round layaboutologists.

In actual fact I have degrees, doctorates and, if the awards committee had the brains they were born with, Nobel prizes, to prove it.

I only get out of bed in a morning because if I don't my breakfast will spoil the enjoyment of my dinner.

Call it neurotic if you like. It has nothing to do with me.
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Vengoropatubus
 
  1  
Mon 1 Oct, 2007 05:50 pm
spendius wrote:
I don't see why Thought Question 3 is "ridiculous". Many people agree with the views expressed. I can't even see what point he's trying to make. Does he not exercise dominion over animals? Does he think that advances in technology will solve all of man's physical and social problems? Doesn't "Communism" deny the existence of God?

How can those be classed as "indoctrination in extremist religious beliefs"?.

And why is the stuff about CO2 "wingnuttery"? He has a bad case of assertion-nuttery.


The point is, that a book about evolution should have nothing to do with communism any more than it should cover topics like man's right to rule over the animal kingdom or the ethical problems caused by eradication of minorities.

The CO2 stuff is just so wrong it wouldn't even be allowed on wikipedia, that great internet repository of wingnuttery. It would quickly be marked "weasel words" and then removed.

As far as the communism stuff:
"all who owned property or houses sold them and lay them at the feet of the apostles to be distributed to everyone according to his need." (Acts 4:32-35; see also 2:42-47)
That quote suggests to me that the early Christians were among the first communists. Would you say that they rejected God, or would you agree that your assertion about communists rejecting God is based in fiction?

As far as your little bit about Liberalism, I'd like to point out that the first liberals objected to the authoritarian power of kings who claimed to be God's representative on earth. It was the king who besmirched the name of God by associating the king's tyranny with His holy name. It is on that same basis that liberals would object to Big Brother.
I should note, however, that it was the liberals themselves who sullied the ideals of liberalism with their own tyranny.
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