Vengo wrote-
Quote:Well, you should really give your definition of the word liberal, since liberal means so many things in so many contexts, including the sense where liberals favor government that's only large enough to protect individual liberties, which I'm fairly certain wouldn't include Big Brother.
Actually, there's a book fresh out on the very subject by AC Grayling called Towards The Light; The Story of the Struggles for Liberty and Rights That Made the Modern West. I haven't read it but I've seen a review of it by Roger Scruton who is currently Research Professor for the Institute for the Psychological Sciences where he teaches philosophy at their graduate school in both Washington and Oxford and a well known writer in England.
He says that the theme of the book is "the history of the liberal idea of political order".
That liberalism is a fight against the nobility, the Church (RC obviously), and absolute monarchs to win "equal rights (that's a laugh) and freedoms (another laugh) for
the people. My italics.
He says that Mr Grayling "recycles the Victorian notion that the West has progressed from oppressive superstition to enlightened liberty" and that his account of the heroes of this progression is scholarly enough to make up for his "one-dimensional view of Western history , in which the Good forces of liberty, secularism, democracy, equality and enlightenment are locked in a struggle with the Bad forces of religion, authority, hierarchy, inequality and darkness"
He cannot see, Prof Scruton says, that while it is "right to believe that people aspire to freedom and light" they "also need obedience and shadows".
Quote:Grayling sees all liberal ideas as summed up in a single moral imperative, which is the defence of "human rights". His hostility to Christianity causes him to ignore the church's defence of natural law, from which the idea of human rights derives. The rights defended in secular terms by John Locke were spelled out more thoroughly by Thomas Aquinas who is given only fleeting credit.
Quote: To lay the sins of Torquemada at the door of his faith is like blaming Grayling's ideal of liberty for the Terror. After all, didn't Robespierre describe what he was doing in just those terms---as "the despotism of liberty"?
The article is accompanied by a picture of Robespierre struggling with the executioners under the guillotine.
Quote: The UN Declaration of Human Rights tells us in the same breath that everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person (as Aquinas and Locke acknowledged) and also that everyone has a right to medical care, social services, unemployment benefit and whatever else is "indispensible for his dignity and the free development of his personality".
The Marquis de Sade would have agreed with the last bit.
Quote:To Grayling, the UN declaration is "the greatest achievement in the sphere of rights and liberties that the world has hitherto seen". To me (Scruton), it is the beginning of the "rights inflation" that is ruining the delicate and hitherto durable equilibrium maintained by the common law. Grayling is similarly indulgent towards the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen , which launched the French revolution on its path to unrestrained murder, and is unable to see what Burke was getting at when he argued that abstract rights without concrete institutions will lead of their own accord to anarchy.
To prevent anarchy we vote in Big Brother.
Prof Scruton mentions the removal of the right to hunt as having been taken away by a "dictatorial House of Commons"--a euphemism for wet liberal hypocrites.
I will mention the right of a pub landlord to allow smoking in his pub (his public house") has been taken away by the same bunch of WLHs on the basis of two lies repeated endlessly; a technique favoured by J Goebells and stressed by George Orwell.
He concludes with a warning about "airy declarations of abstract political goals, combined with a contempt for real people".
The "liberals" on these threads, in what I understood the American usage to be, are guilty of both on a daily basis. Hourly when they have no one else to boss about.
Actually Vengo, it's the party to be in. It's winning. It practices "entryism".
In another review of a book about Mr Bush Max Hastings concluded that the only way for Americans to avoid a constant stream of Mr Bush's is to establish a Monarchy or choose the president by raffle.