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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 23 May, 2007 03:27 pm
fm wrote-

Quote:
and I thought that I was the worst at run-on sentencing. Spendi has achieved, and retired, the Jack Kerouac, toilet paper roll sentence award.


This is the complacent assertion in a slightly more subtle form. My perfectly reasonable sentence is obviously too much for fm's concentration so it's a "run-on" sentence. I'm verbose. Bad thing. Sentence must be crap as well. QED. And he expects everybody to agree with him because he can't imagine any viewers having better concentration than he does.

In actual fact I am complimenting my readers, if I have any, by having confidence in their ability to stretch their concentration a bit. Not a lot. But a bit. Calling it a "run-on" is just a lame excuse for not taking it on and trying to appreciate it. A lazy mind.

I learned that from reading Proust mainly. In that long,hot summer I realised Proust was doing that. That subtle thought can only be expressed in a subtle manner. So when people would say to me that they didn't like Proust, (how can anybody not love Proust?), I knew what they meant. I knew it wasn't Proust's fault for expecting someone to concentrate. That's why I like his stuff so much.



Oh no- it was their own fault.

Like Bob Dylan said-

"Care not to come up any higher
But rather get them down in the hole that he's in."

It's Alright Ma, I'm Only Bleedin'.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 23 May, 2007 03:29 pm
ros wrote-

Quote:
Our society frowns on child abuse, but hasn't yet gone so far as to equate disinformation and bad advice from parents, as a form of child abuse.


If ever it does ros the whole GDP will end up in the hands of the legal profession.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 23 May, 2007 03:33 pm
Actually ros, on reflection, that could be prevented simply by removing children from their biological parents and placing them under professional guidance from birth.

The drift is that way and there are plenty of Marxist types who favour such a policy. All anti-IDers of course.

The anti-IDers on here are just sweeping the path for them. They don't like getting their shoes muddy.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Wed 23 May, 2007 05:04 pm
spendi
Quote:
In actual fact I am complimenting my readers, if I have any, by having confidence in their ability to stretch their concentration a bit. Not a lot. But a bit. Calling it a "run-on" is just a lame excuse for not taking it on and trying to appreciate it. A lazy mind.
. Your readers know that its much more difficult to be concise and precise than it is to wander all over the playing field. ANy idiot can ramble on . Did you ever hear the expression."If I had more time I could have written it more briefly"?
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farmerman
 
  1  
Wed 23 May, 2007 05:16 pm
My visitation with Proust came at a price. I found him obscure and , like WAgnerian opera, quite pedantic. Jewish guilt--duhhh.
I did enjoy his English translated works on the life of Ruskin. Im a lifelong Arts& Crafts admirer , and all the way from Macintosh to Irvine, Ive enjoyed listening in on the artists .

Outside of that, I wasnt meant to rwad Proust, theres no equations possible, if being an ANtI-IDer means eschewing Proust, where do I sign up?
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 23 May, 2007 05:17 pm
fm wrote-

Quote:
ANy idiot can ramble on . Did you ever hear the expression."If I had more time I could have written it more briefly"?


Sure I have.

And Matt Arnold said- "Could Mill have written the Book of Job?". Ever?
With a lifetime to go at he meant. No chance.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 23 May, 2007 05:23 pm
fm wrote-

Quote:
Outside of that, I wasnt meant to rwad Proust, theres no equations possible, if being an ANtI-IDer means eschewing Proust, where do I sign up?


Right here. Join the happy throng. Just above the dotted line. If you have letters behind your name you may append them. It makes it look good you see. It impresses the gumps.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Wed 23 May, 2007 05:59 pm
spendius wrote:
It isn't voluntary Chum I assure you. They didn't used to wring blokes necks when I was young at anywhere near the same rate they do now. When you see as many blokes get burned as I have you really can't ignore it.
You believe the number of telephones that still "ring" are inversely proportional to the number of blokes neck that are "wrung".
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 23 May, 2007 06:25 pm
No. Directly proportional. A telephone ringing makes me jump.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Wed 23 May, 2007 06:41 pm
So you take no issue with "mod cons".


(should have read "bloke's necks")
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farmerman
 
  1  
Wed 23 May, 2007 07:07 pm
Quote:
My perfectly reasonable sentence is obviously too much for fm's concentration so it's a "run-on" sentence.
. No, the rules of English define it as run-on, wherein 2 or more sentences are poorly hung together.

Sounds like your MO .
Try to work harder on your writing "skills" it'd be best for us all.
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xingu
 
  1  
Wed 23 May, 2007 07:36 pm
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
We need to talk more, xingu. I know so little of you. American? Teenager?

These questions have been haunting me.


American

Dirty old man
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 23 May, 2007 08:33 pm
xingu: American

Dirty old man


Hi, amigo, glad to meet ya; I'm one of those too!
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 24 May, 2007 03:24 am
fm wrote-

Quote:
. No, the rules of English define it as run-on, wherein 2 or more sentences are poorly hung together.


There are no such rules. Henry Fielding, the author of that wonderfully entertaining and enlightening work Tom Jones, discusses the matter of negative and pedantic criticism of an author's style at some length and dismisses your case in its entirety.

It was one sentence.

I do however realise that when the ideas in a sentence are not conducive to a person's taste he often dredges up pernickety points to try to discredit it and hopes to distract others from the meaning.

A certain style can be likened to dancing the tango with a graceful lady and it is perfectly understandable that an anti-IDer would eschew such a style and try to promote short, stubby, mechanical ones in its place.

Scientific methodologists, in my experience, were hopeless dancers and ladies returning to their seats after dancing with them never showed signs of being flustered or flushed and attractively confused.
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 24 May, 2007 03:59 am
xingu wrote-

Quote:
American

Dirty old man


It's a Mongolian name surely?
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 24 May, 2007 08:40 am
Quote:
An Evolving Debate about Evolution
(by David Masci, Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, May 16, 2007)

The evolution controversy, traditionally a state and local issue, has vaulted into the national political arena, making a surprise appearance at the first Republican presidential candidate debate on May 3 and garnering a large amount of press attention in the days following the event.

Whether the evolution debate will continue to play even a minor role in the 2008 presidential campaign is an open question. Still, the fact that the issue was raised at all in a national context and that the incident was widely reported is significant, demonstrating how recent high profile battles over teaching evolution in public schools have increased people's awareness of the controversy.

At the May 3 debate, amid the expected questions about Iraq, immigration and abortion, one reporter asked the GOP hopefuls the following: "Is there anyone on the stage who does not … believe in evolution?" Of the 10 candidates, three -- Kansas Sen. Sam Brownback, former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee and Rep. Tom Tancredo (Colo.) -- raised their hands. Arizona Sen. John McCain jumped in to say that while he believes in evolution, "I also believe, when I hike the Grand Canyon...that the hand of God is there also."

In the days following the event, there were stories in newspapers and on television expressing surprise that evolution was even mentioned during a presidential debate and that nearly a third of the candidates disagree with Charles Darwin's theory on life's origins and development. But while the debate over evolution has largely remained outside presidential politics, it has long been an active front in the nation's culture war. In particular, state legislatures, town councils and school boards around the country have, for decades, grappled with the issue in schools.

**********************************

The American people have never fully embraced evolution, which is not surprising given the religious nature of the country. According to an August 2006 poll by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, 42% of all adults, and 65% of white evangelicals, say that humans and other living things have existed in present form only. In other words, life did not evolve, but was created in its present state.

Moreover, among the 51% who say that they accept some sort of evolution, 21% say that these changes were guided by a supreme being. Only 26% accept the idea that life evolved through natural selection, as Darwin and his successors have argued. And while substantial majorities of most religious denominations say that scientists agree about evolution, only a minority (43%) of white evangelicals subscribe to that view.

Given the high level of opposition to evolution and the prominence of religious conservatives in the Republican Party, no one should be surprised that three of 10 Republican candidates at the May 3 debate came out against Darwinian thinking. Indeed, it may be surprising that more candidates did not raise their hands as well.

Still, even though the evolution controversy has been injected into the national campaign, it is unlikely to become a major or even minor campaign issue. At this point, few Americans name evolution among those issues crucial to deciding how they will vote. Moreover, evolution didn't come up again at the next GOP presidential debate on May 15. On the other hand, if reporters continue to ask the candidates questions about evolution and write stories about their answers, as they did on and after the May 3 debate, that could change.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 24 May, 2007 09:55 am
whats that saying.

"If cannibals could vote, some politician would show up at one of their barbeques"
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 24 May, 2007 10:53 am
fm wrote-

Quote:
No, the rules of English define it as a run-on, wherein 2 or more sentences are poorly hung together.


I mentioned Henry Fielding having remarked on such banalities and now, having a little more time, I have found one of the passages in Tom Jones in which he gave such things a good stuffing all those years ago but which, sadly, does not seem to be a part of the curriculum of the elite figures in the American educational establishment which, seemingly relies upon the authority of ipse dixit and, as a result English critics like Max Hastings express shock and disbelief at the sight of Geoge Tenet's book with words such as- "He and his ghostwriter have put together a truly dreadful book, from which no banality is spared".


Quote:
Upon all these occasions the world seems to have embraced a maxim of our law, viz., cuicunque in arte sua perito credendum est: for it seems perhaps difficult to conceive that any one should have had enough of impudence to lay down dogmatical rules in any art or science without the least foundation. In such cases, therefore, we are apt to conclude there are sound and good reasons at the bottom, though we are unfortunately not able to see so far.
Now, in reality, the world have paid too great a compliment to critics, and have imagined them men of much greater profundity than they really are. From this complacence, the critics have been emboldened to assume a dictatorial power, and have so far succeeded, that they are now become the masters, and have the assurance to give laws to those authors from whose predecessors they originally received them.
The critic, rightly considered, is no more than the clerk, whose office it is to transcribe the rules and laws laid down by those great judges whose vast strength of genius hath placed them in the light of legislators, in the several sciences over which they presided. This office was all which the critics of old aspired to; nor did they ever dare to advance a sentence, without supporting it by the authority of the judge from whence it was borrowed.
But in process of time, and in ages of ignorance, the clerk began to invade the power and assume the dignity of his master. The laws of writing were no longer founded on the practice of the author, but on the dictates of the critic. The clerk became the legislator, and those very peremptorily gave laws whose business it was, at first, only to transcribe them.
Hence arose an obvious, and perhaps an unavoidable error; for these critics being men of shallow capacities, very easily mistook mere form for substance. They acted as a judge would, who should adhere to the lifeless letter of law, and reject the spirit. Little circumstances, which were perhaps accidental in a great author, were by these critics considered to constitute his chief merit, and transmitted as essentials to be observed by all his successors. To these encroachments, time and ignorance, the two great supporters of imposture, gave authority; and thus many rules for good writing have been established, which have not the least foundation in truth or nature; and which commonly serve for no other purpose than to curb and restrain genius, in the same manner as it would have restrained the dancing-master, had the many excellent treatises on that art laid down as an essential rule that every man must dance in chains.
To avoid, therefore, all imputation of laying down a rule for posterity, founded only on the authority of ipse dixit


Te translate the Latin-

1- Every man is to be trusted in his own art.

2- An assertion without proof.

*The phrase "not the profoundest veneration" is an understatement as I continually have to point out.

To translate the lot, it means fm that what you said there is pure empty noise having no other function than that of you making it.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 24 May, 2007 11:21 am
spendi: To translate the lot, it means fm that what you said there is pure empty noise having no other function than that of you making it.

That's one of the primary reasons I enjoy your prose; it's full of irony.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 24 May, 2007 01:20 pm
Quote:
To translate the lot, it means fm that what you said there is pure empty noise having no other function than that of you making it.


That may be entirely so, but at least Ive learned to get to some credible point. Whats your excuse?
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