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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 28 Feb, 2007 10:39 am
fm wrote-

Quote:
Ill have to attend and see if I can make it through without getting asked to leave.


Oh---gee--fm. Don't aim for that. Building up to a crescendo and then being asked to leave is best for you. It's bad for you to repress your primal urges. Everybody knows that. And it shows style to make good theatre out of it. Cause a commotion like you usually do at such events. Why go otherwise? You won't convert anybody.

A proper commotion. One worth the telling.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 28 Feb, 2007 11:22 am
That's all very well wande but there is a language problem.

There was no earth until language arrived and because we only have words and images with which to think then the world is as old as that thinking just like the earth isn't in the consciousness of any other creature but us and thus doesn't exist for them.

To arrive at 7,000 years they feel it a matter of taste to ignore the introduction despite it being fairly long drawn out.

It's rather poetic I think. Allows us to feel better about ourselves which must be difficult when a man has been elected, twice, was working on the "stick rattling in a bucket" principle.

And the consciousness of being on earth has never been so apparent to people as it is now. The days of going on picnics with the village girls in the meadows on Easter monday are long gone.

So anything that makes people feel better about themselves has my vote and I'm not much bothered how they do it as long as it's legal.

It isn't as if Mr Zimmer is communicating his thoughts in any other medium than language.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Wed 28 Feb, 2007 02:20 pm
wandeljw wrote:
Quote:
Conservapedia: Don't Mess With Noah's Flood
(Carl Zimmer, ScienceBlogs.com, February 27, 2007)
Conservapedia describes itself as "one of the largest user-controlled free encyclopedias on the internet." Just keep your hands off Noah's flood.
Oh, by the way--perhaps you're wondering about the young moon?

"There is no plausible non-creation theory of origin for the Moon at this time."


I always thought that the existing plausible theory was plausible.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Wed 28 Feb, 2007 03:31 pm
rosborne979 wrote:
wandeljw wrote:
Quote:
Conservapedia: Don't Mess With Noah's Flood
(Carl Zimmer, ScienceBlogs.com, February 27, 2007)
Conservapedia describes itself as "one of the largest user-controlled free encyclopedias on the internet." Just keep your hands off Noah's flood.
Oh, by the way--perhaps you're wondering about the young moon?

"There is no plausible non-creation theory of origin for the Moon at this time."


I always thought that the existing plausible theory was plausible.


Well, there ya go - what else could be expected? Education, logic, reason, and rejection of superstition will do that to ya every time. Now, if ya just had FAITH insteada all that useless secular humanist, scientific, general-body-of-knowledge junk clutterin' up yer mind ...
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farmerman
 
  1  
Wed 28 Feb, 2007 04:11 pm
Damn! For some reason I cant get onto the Conservapedia site. It is really slow loading, youd think God would want all the free bytes she could get.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Wed 28 Feb, 2007 04:22 pm
farmerman wrote:
Damn! For some reason I cant get onto the Conservapedia site. It is really slow loading, youd think God would want all the free bytes she could get.


Try this link:

Conservapedia Geology
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farmerman
 
  1  
Wed 28 Feb, 2007 04:28 pm
nope, keeps giving me a" Sorry, cant connect you, maybe the page is experiencing trouble".
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 28 Feb, 2007 04:29 pm
No timber. Not instead of. Not at all. It isn't either or.

Maybe it serves your purpose for it to be one or the other. A black and white choice. That doesn't mean it will serve other people's purposes. There are a whole host of purposes being serviced. Your's is one of many.

And you have all positive values claimed for your side, even if expressed ironically, or hopefully so, and you associate the other side with negative oik values whilst conveniently forgetting the positive in the feelings and emotions and a sense of dignity.

La Mettrie didn't call his book Man A Machine for nothing. You'll have to reason feeling and emotion out of existence with logically constructed education policies to win this argument.

Which I'm not saying you can't do. I just think it unlikely.

It wouldn't surprise me if Republicans who side with Materialism don't find invitations to the better parties drying up. There are other forces at work which are not always evident. It is mortifying to suffer such a fate. "A thousand telephones that don't ring."

And who in their right mind would wish to go to a Materialist's party. They are witless. They even dance mechanically. I knew a Maths PhD once and I couldn't even teach her to twist. Her elbows and her knees were going in all directions at random. She was very sweet.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 1 Mar, 2007 09:53 am
TENNESSEE UPDATE

Quote:
A question of faith, not science
(Editorial, Bristol Herald Courier, Mar 01, 2007)

An East Tennessee lawmaker seeks to put the state's education commissioner on the hot seat.

But Sen. Raymond Finney isn't concerned about the state's troublesome high school dropout rate or even its stagnant math or reading scores. Finney wants to know the official state position on the origin of the universe.

Finney is playing coy, but his true intent is obvious. He wants students in the state's public science classrooms taught Biblical creationism or its kissing cousin, intelligent design, along with evolution. This is the so-called "teach the controversy" approach that creationists have adopted in an effort to make an end run around court rulings that prevent overt instruction in creationism in public schools.

His fellow senators should reject this attempt to weaken the state's science curriculum. They should vote no.

This isn't a new debate. Tennessee, after all, was the site of the famous Scopes trial some 80 years ago.

More recently, elected officials in Delaware, Georgia and Kansas have made attempts to interject religious dogma into science class by adding intelligent design to the curriculum or by placing anti-evolution stickers on textbooks. The courts frowned on these efforts. And in the case of the Kansas Board of Education, the voters turned the intelligent design proponents out of office.

The law of the land is clear. Neither creationism nor intelligent design can be taught in a science classroom. In a comparative religion class? Maybe. Biology? No.

This isn't an attack on faith. Tennesseans are free to practice any religion or none at all. Parents can instruct their children in any faith tradition that they chose. Ministers are free to preach about the glories of God's creation every Sunday.

But religion and science operate in different realms. How can Tennessee high school students be prepared to tackle college science courses without comprehension of at least the fundamentals of evolutionary theory?

Finney, 65, of Maryville, is a retired pathologist with a medical degree from the University of Tennessee. Certainly, he must have studied evolution as part of his undergraduate or medical education. But it didn't harm his faith.

On his Web site, Finney describes himself as a "born-again Christian" and says that no other experience had such a profound impact on his life. He teaches "end time" prophecy at his church and participates in a jail ministry program. He previously held leadership roles in a local Right-to-Life organization and an abstinence-based sex education program. His work with inmates and on behalf of his faith community is commendable, but Finney shouldn't use his position in the General Assembly to legislatively endorse his religious beliefs.

Finney posed his question to the commissioner in the form of a Senate resolution. As such, it only has to pass the Senate to make its way to the Department of Education. The House - with its Democratic majority - doesn't get a vote. That's a shame because the House would probably stick this measure in a committee and allow it to die.

The outcome in the Senate, where Republicans are in control, is much more of a question. Some will be tempted to go along with the measure to appease their constituents on the religious right. But this isn't a wise choice. It isn't the sort of reform that the state's underperforming schools need.

Finney's resolution asks: "Is the Universe and all that is within it, including human beings, created through purposeful, intelligent design by a Supreme Being, that is a Creator?" If the commissioner answers in the affirmative or even ambivalently, Finney poses an additional question: "Why is creationism not taught as an alternative concept, explanation or theory"?

The state education commissioner isn't in the business of answering theological questions. Senators should reject the resolution and maintain the separation between church and state. Vote no.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Thu 1 Mar, 2007 10:24 am
wandeljw wrote:
TENNESSEE UPDATE

Quote:
A question of faith, not science
(Editorial, Bristol Herald Courier, Mar 01, 2007)

"Why is creationism not taught as an alternative concept, explanation or theory"?


Because in a science class, creationism is NOT an alternative theory. Duh. It's embarassing when our elected reps don't have even the most rudimentary understanding of such things (sure he could be pandering, but I bet he's not).

We need a national education campaign which explains this to everyone in simple terms. Too bad the NCSE isn't funded as well as the tobacco companies or Coke and Pepsi.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 1 Mar, 2007 11:50 am
AND even if they were, theyd keep losing our addresses, the morons.
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ScienceLawyer
 
  1  
Thu 1 Mar, 2007 01:36 pm
Intellegent Design isn't science because it calls on a "supernatural" force that drives life and evolution, but all that is doing is explaining a scientific question without science.

"It's too complex for us to figure out, so there must be some more intellegent being out there that made it all and we just don't understand it."
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Thu 1 Mar, 2007 02:27 pm
ScienceLawyer wrote:
Intellegent Design isn't science because it calls on a "supernatural" force that drives life and evolution, but all that is doing is explaining a scientific question without science.

"It's too complex for us to figure out, so there must be some more intellegent being out there that made it all and we just don't understand it."


Most of us agree. But we love to belabor the point anyway Wink

Welcome to A2K
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 1 Mar, 2007 02:30 pm
I'm sorry SL. We've been through that stuff already. A good few times.

Maybe you should read the thread eh? Running on the spot is not for me.

As I'm the only defender of id you might as well just read my posts. The others agree with you.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 1 Mar, 2007 04:16 pm
SL- spendi is pretty much on the money about his position, so I dare you to read his posts, you can see how hes evolved his own view . Welcome aboard.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 1 Mar, 2007 04:21 pm
I agree with what farmerman said, ScienceLawyer. You are welcome to post here. I sometimes provide updates on anti-evolution stories in the news. (Like Rosborne said, I enjoy belaboring the point).

Don't worry about Spendius. He is our comic relief.
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 1 Mar, 2007 06:37 pm
wande's right SL. You don't need to worry about me.

You just tell them that "Intellegent Design isn't science because it calls on a "supernatural" force that drives life and evolution, but all that is doing is explaining a scientific question without science."

They love it. You will be very popular on this thread despite being in a minority, a substantial one at that, and with a full explanation almost iconoclastic.

I was aware of your thesis when I I learned that parallel lines never meet as long as you didn't dig perspective.
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ScienceLawyer
 
  1  
Fri 2 Mar, 2007 01:49 am
then why reply to it? ill get the point
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Chumly
 
  1  
Fri 2 Mar, 2007 02:02 am
Welcome ScienceLawyer! I'm watching South Park............

Unto spendius thus spendius......
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spendius
 
  1  
Fri 2 Mar, 2007 05:08 am
That programme went off the boil. Must be something to do with free speech I guess.

SL- There isn't a point.
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