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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Sat 27 Aug, 2005 12:15 pm
It could be useful. Anyone funding ID who wished to remain mostly anonymous could set up a little shop as a sole proprietor, and therefore not incorporate, and leave no incorporation record with the state. But the first time they tried to sell a book or a fish emblem in the state in which they do business, they're gonna need a vendor's license, a direct pay permit or a certificate of exemption. That's the sort of thing one learns in historiography, how to build a document trail. It may come to nothing, but it can't hurt to try.

We can't fail, we've got god on our side . . . oh, wait . . .
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Sat 27 Aug, 2005 12:22 pm
adele wrote
"I also believe that the Bible is the final authority as the Word of God,"

and the Muslims believe

the Koran is the final (and perfect) authority as the word of God.

and I think the Jews might have a view here regarding the Torah and the Talmud.

So how do we reconcile these conflicting view points....?

Well we could sit down and discuss the origins of all religions. How perhaps the transition from hunter gatherer to farming communities allowed for religious ideas to develop as a way of explaining the inexplicable, and that perhaps modern science is doing just the same now but fantastically more successfully


Or, being religiously inclined, we could do what we have always done, and kill each other.
0 Replies
 
Acquiunk
 
  1  
Sat 27 Aug, 2005 12:29 pm
[quote="Steve (as 41oo)"Or, being religiously inclined, we could do what we have always done, and kill each other.[/quote]

If god instructs you to do it, how could you refuse? He is after all the intelligent designer.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Sat 27 Aug, 2005 12:53 pm
Yeah, that - or "we" could have individual experience that we individually consider significant, with powers higher than ourselves, and not give a piffle about what anyone thinks about our personal convictions. There are a lot of options "we" have, re what to 'do' about the God thing.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Sat 27 Aug, 2005 01:02 pm
I havn't been following this thread, so I apologize if I'm repeating other contributions. Even if we never arrive at the point wherein Evolutionary Theory illuminates all the complexities of biological observation, "Intelligent Design" casts no light on the situation. There are enough "anomalies" in the observational record for someone to argue (inadequately, of course) for Stupid Design. But that would help no more, nor less, than does Intelligent Design. The answer I would expect regarding "anomalies" from believers is the disingenuous "Well the Designer has purposes we cannot understand."
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 27 Aug, 2005 01:03 pm
Let's face it; the god thing is nothing new, and existed way before the bible god was created. That it still exists only says that man seeks to find anything that's superior to man. After ID and the bible god is refuted as a consequence of science, man will seek to find another god that reconciles science with some diety yet to be created.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Sat 27 Aug, 2005 01:20 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Let's face it; the god thing is nothing new, and existed way before the bible god was created. That it still exists only says that man seeks to find anything that's superior to man. After ID and the bible god is refuted as a consequence of science, man will seek to find another god that reconciles science with some diety yet to be created.


I think you can refine this down to...

"There has to be a God (that is superior to me) because if I am the best there is the universe is in a heap of trouble."
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Sat 27 Aug, 2005 01:40 pm
University of Calif. sued over creationism
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER
Saturday, August 27, 2005
University of Calif. sued over creationism
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

LOS ANGELES -- A group representing California religious schools has filed a lawsuit accusing the University of California system of discriminating against high schools that teach creationism and other conservative Christian viewpoints.

The Association of Christian Schools International, which represents more than 800 schools, filed a federal lawsuit Thursday claiming UC admissions officials have refused to certify high school science courses that use textbooks challenging Darwin's theory of evolution. Other rejected courses include "Christianity's Influence in American History."

According to the lawsuit, the Calvary Chapel Christian School in Murrieta was told its courses were rejected because they use textbooks printed by two Christian publishers, Bob Jones University Press and A Beka Books.

Wendell E. Bird, a lawyer for the association, said the policy violates the rights of students and religious schools.

"A threat to one religion is a threat to all," he said.

UC spokeswoman Ravi Poorsina said she could not comment, because the university had not been served with the lawsuit. Still, she said the university has a right to set course requirements.

"These requirements were established after careful study by faculty and staff to ensure that students who come here are fully prepared with broad knowledge and the critical thinking skills necessary to succeed," Poorsina.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 27 Aug, 2005 01:50 pm
BBB, Since the creationists have now established their foothold in the door, they're now going for the big stuff; university curriculum. It helps them, because the media will pick up on it, and make it a subject of controversy. Most people without any knowledge of science will agree with this christian initiative. Just goes to show that religion in politics is dangerous.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Sat 27 Aug, 2005 02:19 pm
seems we are being most unkind to this Islamist who demands the freedom of speech to forment violence against us (and to whom we gave asylum)

from BBC:-

Dr al-Massari, who has lived in London since he sought asylum in the UK in 1994, said he was "not concerned" about possible deportation, which he said he would contest in court.

"London is not God's heaven on earth, it's just like any other place," he told the Associated Press.

"We will search for another place where we can speak freely."

An internet "obituary" on his site said it had been a victim of the "murder of freedom of opinion and expression by the oppressive regime led by Tony Blair, the liar and well known war criminal".

"Unfortunately we had to suspend big parts of our electronic site until this inquisition blows over or until I move to a country that allows an acceptable degree of free speech," the website message read.

---------------------------------------

Dr al Massari is in my opinion an ass*ole
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Sat 27 Aug, 2005 02:35 pm
I posted this on page 22 of this thread. But I thought it would be helpful to a few of the recent participants who weren't part of the discussion on page 22.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=50511&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=210

Quote:
This is a bit long, but I highlighted for those who don't want to read it all. It's relevance makes it worth it, I think. I wish the author hadn't resorted to his "IDiocy" joke. It hurts his cause. But I can understand the frustration well enough to forgive him. Still his points would have been stronger had he resisted.

link here

Quote:
The Wedge
A book published nearly a year ago is, I think, essential reading for anyone interested in the details of how a modern day cultural crusade gets successfully conducted. The book is Creationism's Trojan Horse: The Wedge of Intelligent Design and its obstensible subject is, of course, the religious right's extensive efforts to get "Intelligent Design" (which I call IDiocy) a respected place in the public discourse. As important as this subject is by itself, what makes this book a must read is that it provides useful insight into how the right carefully picks an issue, defines its parameters, and then methodically constructs a public relations blitzkrieg in which no detail is too small, no angle missed, and no quarter taken.

The strategy used by the IDiots is nearly identical to that used by the right with other causes. What is unique, however, and what makes Creationism's Trojan Horse so valuable for anyone interested in confronting the right, is that it provides useful insight into how the right carefully picks an issue, defines its parameters, and then methodically constructs a public relations blitzkrieg in which no detail is too small, no angle missed, and no quarter taken.

Typically, the rightwing micro-strategizing is secret; the public only sees the final result, for example in the fine-tuned rhetoric of the anti-abortion movement, or the marketing of the Bush/Iraq war ("Well, would you rather have Saddam still in power?"). However, as the "Intelligent Design" effort was developed, the prime movers were either unable, or didn't bother, to cover their tracks. The meticulousness of the assault is simply astounding.

And let's not forget that the cause of the IDiots is intellectual, abstruse, abstract. The care and attention paid to the advocacy of an idea as opposed to a concrete action is impressive. As is the passion they've managed to generate over something as obscure as speciation development.

In summary, Creationism's Trojan Horse informs us that:

1. There is no science - none - behind the assertions of "Intelligent Design" advocates. Nor have the main proponents of IDiocy published any scientific research in support of their positions in any peer-reviewed journals.*

2. "Intelligent Design" advocates are simply "creationists in cheap tuxedos," who say one thing when they need to appear "scientific," and another when they are addressing religious groups.

3. The "Intelligent Design" movement is extremely well-funded by, among others, wealthy "christian reconstructionists" who are openly working for the establishment of an American theocratic state.

4. The hub of IDiocy is the CRSC, the self-styled "Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture" within the Discovery Institute, a right wing think tank at which, among others, Dick Cheney has spoken.

5. About 6 years ago, the CRSC created a document called The Wedge Strategy which outlined a comprehensive 5 year strategy to advance the cause of IDiocy. "Scientific," educational, legislative, legal, cultural, and marketing goals were laid out in detail.

6. To date, there is no well-funded, well-organized counter-strategy to confront IDiocy.

7. The efforts to advance the implement The Wedge Strategy and advance the cause of "Intelligent Design" have been phenomenally successful (except in actual science), far more than those who should be concerned about it realize.

The Wedge Strategy describes 3 phases -

Phase I. Scientific Research [sic], Writing & Publicity

Phase II. Publicity & Opinion-making

Phase III. Cultural Confrontation & Renewal


But they only really care about Phases II and III; ie, the marketing of "Intelligent Design." And in the service of that marketing, the authors of the book cite numerous documents which attest to the indefatigable enthusiasm and obsessive attention to detail the IDiots possess.

The first step was rhetorical. They eliminated all the normal frames and definitions of science and created new ones that gave them an argumentative advantage.** For example, IDiots redefined science to include two different possible approaches - "methodological naturalism" and "theistic realism." And so, evolution can be recast as "Darwinism," a "naturalist" theory while "Intelligent Design" is an example of "realist" theory.

With evolution now defined as "non-realist," it becomes easy to assert that "Intelligent Design" deserves at least equal status. And so they have.

The IDiots' assault on the discourse of science has been thorough, even encylopedic. We encounter notions like "Irreducible Complexity" or "Complex Specified Information" and the impressive acronyms they spawn. it's all nonsense, but they don't give a hoot because, in the words of the inventor of "methodological naturalism: "My goal is not so much to win the argument as to legitimate it as part of the dialogue."And increasingly in the public's eye, it seems that they have.

To "legitimate" IDiocy, they have polished their sophistries to a fine sheen and used them not only to undermine the public discourse on science but also everywhere else in their strategy. Here's one example:

One day before the senate was to vote on the "Better Education For Students and Teachers Act," Senator Rick Santorum, he of "man on dog" fame, introduced an amendment conducive to IDiocy. He said it addressed "the subject of intellectual freedom." The language was so perfectly crafted that it bamboozled even the streetwise Ted Kennedy, who spoke in favor of it as did Robert Byrd. The amendment passed 91-8. And the IDiots pounced immediately, writing schoolboards requesting (ie demanding) that "Intelligent Design" get equal time in science classrooms. Once Santorum's snotty little ruse was exposed for what it was, it was deleted and the language inserted into some less prominent "Joint Explanatory Statement" but it was too late. The IDiots still refer to the Santorum Amendment when advancing their case.

A few words on the phrase "intellectual freedom." Just as leftover duck's feet get sold as Dim Sum, nothing is ever wasted in "Intelligent Design" advocacy. Having invented the concept that the teaching of IDiocy is about "intellectual freedom," IDiot lawyers have been trained to sue school boards, claiming First Amendment infringement if IDiocy is excluded from science classes.

Creationism's Trojan Horse has numerous other examples and many references to the planning documents of the IDiots. In addition to the rhetorical examples, you can also trace the development of the "victimization" theme so prevalent on the right ("They won't let us teach alternate scientific theories" is all of a piece with "What about white people's rights?" Or little Ben's book title, "It's my country, too"). But with "Intelligent Design," the rightwing had to explain so much about how they were going to wreck science that we can see all the cogs and wheels come into place and start to spin.

While the story is a grim one (terrifying for those of us who care passionately about our children and good science), there is reason for hope. A careful reader can treat the marketing documents of the IDiots as an instruction manual: s/hewill learn how to successfully market, publicize, and proslyetize a complex, abstract idea. Two can play at this game given enough money, effort, and the conviction that the game is worth playing.[/B]

IDiocy can be beaten back to the margins of American culture, where it belongs. Besides, what's the alternative? In The Wedge Strategy , the IDiots make it perfectly clear what they're doing and what their ultimate goal is:

Discovery Institute's Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture seeks nothing less than the overthrow of materialism [they mean "empirical science"] and its cultural legacies...Design theory promises to reverse the stifling dominance of the materialist worldview, and to replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions. And they are well along the way.

*Readers who are familiar with the issues regarding evolution only through the shamefully biased mainstream reporting of IDiocy may be surprised to learn that there is not only no science at all behind the "Intelligent Design" movement, but not even any relevant scientific research that's been published by the movement. Even though there are a few trained scientists among the advocates of IDiocy, their scientific research has not been relevant to "Intelligent Design" issues. At best, they have merely theorized and hypothesized and tried to poke holes in modern day evolution science. More often than not, they simply refer to popular books or articles published in "Intelligent Design" or "Christian" magazines, which have have never been peer reviewed (and would never stand up to scrutiny).

The IDiot who appears to be the most difficult to dismiss on the scientific substance is one William Dembski, who has written book after book chockablock with abstruse "mathematics." There are very few people qualified to slog through his work, but those who have, report that Dembski resorts more than not to mathematisms - that is, pretentious and vacuous symbology that looks like real math - rather than the real thing. Dembski's real work, the book makes clear, is in christian apologetics and evangelization. As Dembski says, "Indeed, intelligent design [sic] is just the Logos theology of John's Gospel restated in the idiom of information theory."

In other words, in spite of the fact that there is no science behind it at all -nor much interest, as the book makes clear, in doing any real science - the advocates of "Intelligent Design" want equal time in science classes.

This very deliberate technique - a calculated disinterest in the facts combined with a breathtakingly aggressive assertion of lies - has also been deployed very effectively in the service of other causes, for example the statements by Bush and others that entirely misrepresent the conclusions of the 9/11 report, the Duelfer report and so on . . .
0 Replies
 
Acquiunk
 
  1  
Sat 27 Aug, 2005 03:28 pm
I do not know if this has been posted on A2K but it certainly falls into the strategy Lola's post outlines

University of Calif. Sued Over Creationism


LOS ANGELES (AP) - A group representing California religious schools has filed a lawsuit accusing the University of California system of discriminating against high schools that teach creationism and other conservative Christian viewpoints.

The Association of Christian Schools International, which represents more than 800 schools, filed a federal lawsuit Thursday claiming UC admissions officials have refused to certify high school science courses that use textbooks challenging Darwin's theory of evolution. Other rejected courses include ``Christianity's Influence in American History.''

According to the lawsuit, the Calvary Chapel Christian School in Murrieta was told its courses were rejected because they use textbooks printed by two Christian publishers, Bob Jones University Press and A Beka Books.

Wendell E. Bird, a lawyer for the association, said the policy violates the rights of students and religious schools.

``A threat to one religion is a threat to all,'' he said.
UC spokeswoman Ravi Poorsina said she could not comment, because the university had not been served with the lawsuit. Still, she said the university has a right to set course requirements.
``These requirements were established after careful study by faculty and staff to ensure that students who come here are fully prepared with broad knowledge and the critical thinking skills necessary to succeed,''


Link
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Sat 27 Aug, 2005 03:30 pm
The Discovery Institute is funded almost exclusively by Howard F. Ahmanson, Jr.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Ahmanson%2C_Jr

Ahmanson and his wife Roberta are Christian Reconstructionists, described here:

http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v08n1/chrisre1.html

Quote:
What is Reconstructionism?
Reconstructionism is a theology that arose out of conservative Presbyterianism (Reformed and Orthodox), which proposes that contemporary application of the laws of Old Testament Israel, or "Biblical Law," is the basis for reconstructing society toward the Kingdom of God on earth.

Reconstructionism argues that the Bible is to be the governing text for all areas of life--such as government, education, law, and the arts, not merely "social" or "moral" issues like pornography, homosexuality, and abortion. Reconstructionists have formulated a "Biblical world view" and "Biblical principles" by which to examine contemporary matters. Reconstructionist theologian David Chilton succinctly describes this view: "The Christian goal for the world is the universal development of Biblical theocratic republics, in which every area of life is redeemed and placed under the Lordship of Jesus Christ and the rule of God's law."

More broadly, Reconstructionists believe that there are three main areas of governance: family government, church government, and civil government. Under God's covenant, the nuclear family is the basic unit. The husband is the head of the family, and wife and children are "in submission" to him. In turn, the husband "submits" to Jesus and to God's laws as detailed in the Old Testament. The church has its own ecclesiastical structure and governance. Civil government exists to implement God's laws. All three institutions are under Biblical Law, the implementation of which is called "theonomy."


Here's a little bit about their covert methods:

http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v08n1/chrisre4.html

Quote:
A Covert Kingdom
Much has been made of the "stealth tactics" practiced by the Christian Right. Whereas the Moral Majority, led by Jerry Falwell, was overt about its Christian agenda, many contemporary Christian Rightists have lowered their religious profile or gone under cover. In fact, these tactics have been refined for years by the Reconstructionist movement, as Robert Thoburn's education strategy suggests. Gary North proposed stealth tactics more than a decade ago in The Journal of Christian Reconstruction (1981), urging "infiltration" of government to help "smooth the transition to Christian political leadership. . . .Christians must begin to organize politically within the present party structure, and they must begin to infiltrate the existing institutional order." Similar stealth tactics have epitomized the resurgence of the Christian Right, as groups like Citizens for Excellence in Education and the Christian Coalition have quietly backed candidates who generally avoided running as overtly "Christian" candidates. The Christian Coalition actually proposed something similar to Gary North's notion of "infiltration" when its 1992 "County Action Plan" for Pennsylvania advised that "You should never mention the name Christian Coalition in Republican circles." The goal, apparently, is to facilitate becoming "directly involved in the local Republican Central Committee so that you are an insider. This way," continues the manual, "you can get a copy of the local committee rules and a feel for who is in the current Republican Committee." The next step is to recruit conservative Christians to occupy vacant party posts or to run against moderates who "put the Republican Party ahead of principle."

Antonio Rivera, a New York Christian Coalition political advisor, suggested similar ideas at a 1992 Christian Coalition meeting. While urging that Coalition members seek to place themselves in influential positions, he advised that[/B] "You keep your personal views to yourself until the Christian community is ready to rise up, and then wow! They're gonna be devastated!" Some leaders have now publicly renounced "stealth" tactics.

Central to the Christian Right's strategy is to exploit the national pattern of low voter participation by turning out their constituents in a strategically disciplined fashion and in greater proportion than the rest of the population. An important vehicle for achieving this goal is the ideology of Christian Reconstructionism or its stripped-down root, dominionism, which at once deepens the political motivation of their constituency and widens that constituency by systematically mobilizing a network of churches, many of which were politically uninvolved until the early 1990s.

Much has been written about the success of Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition in accomplishing these goals.
But it could be argued that the Christian Coalition would not have been possible without Reconstructionism, and that Operation Rescue would not have been possible without the Reconstructionist-influenced philosoper Francis Schaeffer. In the 1970s, Pat Robertson was an apolitical charismatic televangelist, and Randall Terry a would-be rock n' roll star.

Conclusion
Christian Reconstructionism's ultimate moment may or may not arrive; however
it has had tremendous influence as a catalyst for an historic shift in American religion and politics. Christian colleges and bookstores are full of Reconstructionist material. The proliferation of this material and influence is likely to continue. Christian Reconstructionism is largely an underground, underestimated movement of ideas, the rippling surface of which is the political movement known as the Christian Right.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Sat 27 Aug, 2005 03:31 pm
adele_g wrote:
You keep referring to biologists vs ID advocates. They are one and the same.

If you can say this with a straight face, maybe I should heed Lola's advice and give up. If you look really hard, you will no doubt find ID advocates with a degree in biology. But most ID advocates are not biologists, and almost all biologists are not ID advocates. If it pleases you, I will rephrase my sentence and say "... if ID advocates made the prediction before non-ID-biologists predicted them on some other basis ..." But talking about non-ID biologists is like talking about non-zebra animals, so this semantic distinction doesn't mean very much in practice.

adele_g wrote:
Secondly, when the discovery of 'junk DNA' came on the scene, many biologists predicted some sort of usage it, just as many predicted that it was left over from some prior evolutionary purpose. A timeline of the emergence of these predictions is irrelevant because obviously nothing had been proven at the point of their discovery. If ID advocates came out with predictions after the use of junk DNA had been found, then yes, they would not be predictions. However, function for biological structures has always been a prediction of intelligent design, not one that surfaced only after 'junk DNA' came on the scene.

As a general rule, it has also been a prediction of evolutionary biology, so this is not a prediction that would help you make the case that ID can predict anything that evolutionary biology can't. (In your nomenclature: non-ID evolutionary biology, I guess.)

adele_g wrote:
Most scientists do not publish predictions before they have completed experiments to verify them.

Lola is right. This is pointless. I give up.

(Edit: fix misattributed quote, with apologies to Elsie_T.)
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Sat 27 Aug, 2005 03:37 pm
LOL
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Sat 27 Aug, 2005 03:37 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Science_and_Culture#The_Wedge_strategy

Quote:
History
Originally founded as the Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture, the CSC was founded in 1996. The evolution of the center's name reflects the evolution of the center's attempt to present itself as less religiously motivated in the publics eye. The "renewal" in its name referred to its goal of "renewing" American culture by grounding society's major institutions, especially education, in religion. But since that time the center has publicly disavowed any religious motivations to its social and political agenda and so has dropped "renewal" from its title and moderated its formerly overtly religious language of its public statements. This was done to appeal to a more secular audience to which the center hopes its social and political programs will appeal and make inroads. [2]

Despite these attempts to appeal to a broader, less religious, audience, the CSC still states as a goal a redefinition of science, and the philosophy on which it is based, particularly the exclusion of what it calls the "unscientific principle of materialism", and in particular the acceptance of what it calls "the scientific theory of intelligent design". Critics point out that the principle of naturalism (i.e. materialism) allows falsifiability and that supernaturalism is unfalsifiable, meaning any suggested policies or curicula put forth by the center that rest on supernatural suppositions are by definition pseudoscience, not science.


Quote:
The Wedge strategy
Main article: Wedge strategy

In 1999 an internal CSC report dating from 1998 was leaked to the public, which outlined a five-year plan for fostering broader acceptance of ID. This plan become known as the Wedge strategy. The 'wedge document' explained the key aims of CSC as follows.


Governing Goals
To defeat scientific materialism and its destructive moral, cultural and political legacies.
To replace materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding that nature and human beings are created by God.
Five-Year Goals
To see intelligent design theory as an accepted alternative in the sciences and scientific research being done from the perspective of design theory.
To see the beginning of the influence of design theory in spheres other than natural science.
To see major new debates in education, life issues, legal and personal responsibility pushed to the front of the national agenda.
Twenty Year Goals
To see intelligent design theory as the dominant perspective in science.
To see design theory application in specific fields, including molecular biology, biochemistry, paleontology, physics and cosmology in the natural sciences, psychology, ethics, politics, theology and philosophy in the humanities; to see its influence in the fine arts.
To see design theory permeate our religious, cultural, moral and political life.
The paper also stated in part that:

The social consequences of materialism have been devastating. As symptoms, those consequences are certainly worth treating. However, we are convinced that in order to defeat materialism, we must cut it off at its source. That source is scientific materialism. This is precisely our strategy. If we view the predominant materialistic science as a giant tree, our strategy is intended to function as a "wedge" that, while relatively small, can split the trunk when applied at its weakest points. The very beginning of this strategy, the "thin edge of the wedge," was Phillip Johnson's critique of Darwinism begun in 1991 in Darwinism on Trial, and continued in Reason in the Balance and Defeating Darwinism by Opening Minds. Michael Behe's highly successful Darwin's Black Box followed Johnson's work. We are building on this momentum, broadening the wedge with a positive scientific alternative to materialistic scientific theories, which has come to be called the theory of intelligent design (ID). Design theory promises to reverse the stifling dominance of the materialist worldview, and to replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Sat 27 Aug, 2005 03:45 pm
Thomas wrote:
Quote:
Elsie_T wrote:
Most scientists do not publish predictions before they have completed experiments to verify them.

Lola is right. This is pointless. I give up.


LOL.........I apparently don't know how to take my own advice.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 27 Aug, 2005 03:48 pm
Dumb is not illegal, but what they're trying to make legal is worth all the effort to fight their ignorance.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Sat 27 Aug, 2005 03:49 pm
Just to prevent the impression that I butted out because I could not answer Elsie_T's assertion, I did a google search on "predictions of evolutionary biology". One of the first hits is a page on talk.orgigins.org which makes 29 predictions for the narrow field of common descent and macroevolution alone. It also outlines how they might be falsified by experimental evidence. It's not the timeline Elsie suggested, but more than the IDers have delivered so far. Let's revisit the page every now and then and see how kindly the new evidence will treat their hypotheses.

Lola wrote:
LOL.........I apparently don't know how to take my own advice.

It's hard advice to follow, but I'll do my best.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Sat 27 Aug, 2005 03:54 pm
Here's an example of Wedge Strategy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Science_and_Culture#The_Wedge_strategy

Quote:
Smithsonian Natural History Museum controversy
In May 2005 the Discovery Institute donated $16,000 to the Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History, and by museum policy, this minimum donation allowed them to celebrate their donation inside the museum in a gathering. The Discovery Institute decided to screen a film entitled The Privileged Planet, based on the book The Privileged Planet, written by two senior fellows of the Discovery Institute. Notably, the video was also a production of Illustra Media, which has been identified as front for a creationist production company. Upon further review, the Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History determined that the content of the video was inconsistent with the scientific research of the institution. They therefore refunded the $16,000, clearly denied any endorsement of the content of the video or of the Discovery Institute, and allowed the film to be shown in the museum as per the original agreement. Recent editorials have decried as naïve and negligent the Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History's failure to identify the Discovery Institute as a creationist organization, exclude the video with its review process in the first place, and identify the entire incident as an example of Wedge Strategy in action.
0 Replies
 
 

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