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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Wed 13 Dec, 2006 09:25 am
Quote:
Harvard panel sets aside plan on religion
(By Marcella Bombardieri, Boston Globe Staff, December 13, 2006)

Professors designing a new curriculum for undergraduates at Harvard University have rescinded their proposal that all students take a class dealing with religion.

Instead, the faculty task force suggested a different, broader category, "what it means to be a human being," in a revised proposal released late last week. The human nature requirement would encompass religious thought, art, literature, and philosophy, as well as evolutionary biology and cognitive science.

Harvard made waves in October when the task force released a preliminary redesign for general education -- the requirements imposed on students outside their major -- that included a category called "reason and faith."

The original proposal said students often struggle to make sense of the relationship between their own religious beliefs and the secular and intellectual world they encounter in college.

It also noted that wars are fought in the name of religion and that the topic is central to some of the most contentious contemporary debates, over evolution, stem-cell research, and same-sex marriage. It said "reason and faith" courses were not meant to be "religious apologetics," but examinations of cultural and social context.

Professors in Harvard's Faculty of Arts and Sciences have spent the last two months debating the general education proposal, which emphasizes what students need to know to be responsible citizens in society. Several professors had objected to the religion category, saying that it gave too much emphasis to only one of many important forces shaping the world.

"If this is meant to educate students about the role of religion in history and current affairs, why isn't it just a part of the 'US and the World' requirement?" asked psychology professor Steven Pinker in October in an essay in the Harvard Crimson Oct. 27. "Religion is an important force, to be sure, but so are nationalism, ethnicity, socialism, markets, nepotism, class, and globalization. Why single religion out among all the major forces in history?"

Alison Simmons, a philosophy professor and cochairwoman of the general education task force, said her group did not make the switch because of objections to the topic. Rather, she said, they were convinced by their colleagues that the subject would be adequately covered by other categories, including the moral reasoning requirement and requirements covering society in the United States and abroad.

"What it means to be a human being" is an attempt to cover important aspects of the humanities that received less focus in the original proposal, Simmons said, and is not meant as a direct substitute for religion.

The move is sure to disappoint people both inside and outside Harvard who were excited to see the subject considered for elevation to an important place in the curriculum.

"I think secular and liberal Harvard rebelled," government professor Harvey Mansfield, one of the campus's most outspoken conservatives, said last night.

The task force plans to release a final proposal in January. The entire arts and sciences faculty will then decide whether and how to implement their report.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 13 Dec, 2006 11:53 am
wande quoted-

Quote:
"Religion is an important force, to be sure, but so are nationalism, ethnicity, socialism, markets, nepotism, class, and globalization. Why single religion out among all the major forces in history?"


Because it is easiest.

If we studied nationalism and ethnicity with rigour we would discover that we are are all racists and we are not are we?

If we studied socialism and markets with rigour we would discover we are all socialists when we are buying and capitalists when we are selling and that would never do would it?

If we studied nepotism and class with rigour we would discover we are all snobs undermining our society for self interest and we don't do that do we?

If we studied globalization with rigour we would discover that we are all imperialists and that's not nice is it?

And none of that would have the slightest connection to what it is to be a human being. It would be entirely to do with what it is to be an American carpetbagger within the lush pastures of academia doing what comes naturally and avoiding any grimy fingernails.

The emotional response to fear of the unknown forces and the organisation of it in unifying collective beliefs and ceremonials (religion) is a feature of all known human societies and pre-dates the other forces mentioned, which are a modern outcrop of it, by thousands of years and is possibly the only one of the subjects mentioned which has anything to do with what it is to be a human being which is a mainly biological subject anyway as any scientist knows.

Quote:
Professors in Harvard's Faculty of Arts and Sciences have spent the last two months debating the general education proposal,


In expensive padded chairs in 1 hour shifts interwoven with scrannings and slurpings at $100,000+ per year arranged by Ma and Pa or in the exclusive yacht club bar and paid for by the toiling masses and market penetrators with students shunted off somewhere else and strutted on the stage signifying, in human terms, nothing apart from the press hand out which the newspapers copy out so as to provide minimum disturbance to their own set routines.

That's pretty human.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 13 Dec, 2006 11:57 am
"The task force".

I ask you.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 13 Dec, 2006 01:07 pm
It's all human, spendi.

They also belong in philosophy courses.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Wed 13 Dec, 2006 05:03 pm
spendi is fully convinced that religion is essential to all that is human. Its a point of view of course, But its his reality.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 13 Dec, 2006 06:14 pm
Welcome back fm.

I hope you had a good trip.

I think having an "easy" on the taxpayers is essential to all that is human and you should all take a bow for giving the principle a duped helping hand.

Rabelais had the judges tossing a coin after weeks of deliberation and brown envelopes being passed under the bench. And a goose's neck being the best thing to wipe your arse on from a scientific point of view. The velvet curtains at the French windows were next in case you haven't a goose handy.Third choice decency refrains me from mentioning.

There's been some progress in the methods since then.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Wed 13 Dec, 2006 08:13 pm
farmerman wrote:
spendi is fully convinced that religion is essential to all that is human. Its a point of view of course, But its his reality.


Spendi can correct me if I am wrong --- but I remember him stating that the world would have less problems if all the "various sects" were reunited under the Catholic Church.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 13 Dec, 2006 08:59 pm
Interesting imagination.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Wed 13 Dec, 2006 09:59 pm
Well, things were so much simpler when we all submitted to The Crown and The Crown submitted to The Church. First there was that Magna Carta thing, then the Tudor scandals and that whole messy Reformation business, which led to the Industrial Revolution, which brought the rise of Mercantile Capitalism, which fostered the ascendency of Democratic Governance ... and look where its gotten us.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 13 Dec, 2006 11:35 pm
ee-gods!
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 14 Dec, 2006 05:27 am
timber-

That's teleology magnoofico. As well as over-simplification unto absurdity.

You might as well have told off the centuries.

You should give Spengler and Braudel the once over.

Politics is the art of the possible and it isn't going to ignore the fruits of imagination. Queen Elizabeth 1 would never have invented the water closet whilever she had a hole in her stocking but she was the first to have one installed. Science is under no threat from religion. The Vatican uses satellite communication. The only threat to science is science itself.

How was imagination electrified? What role printing? What role rare high IQs? What role dedication? What role art? What role stability? What role patronage. What role monasteries? What role weather? What role topography? What role human greed? What role birth rates? What role food supply?

America took European science and applied it to a vast, unexploited territory. It couldn't go wrong. It's hubris might be misplaced. Can it continue or will it run into the sands of corruption, nepotism, over-simplification, assertion and spin?

I have a new theory about storytelling which something a 19 year old female art student said about Simon Schama's TV programme triggered.
It's psychological.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 14 Dec, 2006 10:02 am
The current issue of New Scientist Magazine has an article on research in molecular biology that is oriented towards promoting intelligent design. Below is an excerpt:

Quote:
While researching protein structure at various institutes in the UK, Douglas Axe, now at the Biologic Institute in Redmond, Washington, published two peer-reviewed papers that are cited by anti-evolutionists as evidence that intelligent design is backed by serious science.

"Extreme functional sensitivity to conservative amino acid changes on enzyme exteriors" Journal of Molecular Biology, vol 301, p 585.
What it reports: Inducing multiple mutations in a bacterial enzyme causes it to lose its ability to perform its role as an antibiotic disabler.
How ID proponents use it: Because such mutations destroy "the possibility of any functioning" in the enzyme, it could not have arisen via "Darwinian pathways" (William Dembski, from Debating Design: From Darwin to DNA, Cambridge University Press, p 327).
What scientists say: Major modifications can be made to proteins without destroying function. Also, making many mutations at once is different to gradual evolution, where dud mutations get weeded out.

"Estimating the prevalence of protein sequences adopting functional enzyme folds" Journal of Molecular Biology, vol 341, p 1295.
What it reports: Calculates the probability that a random sequence of amino acids will result in the folded shape that a protein needs to function as an enzyme.
How ID proponents use it: The probability of creating a functioning protein fold "at random" is very low, making "appeals to chance absurd, even granting the duration of the entire universe" (Stephen Meyer, Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington, vol 117, p 213).
What scientists say: the vast majority of protein folds probably evolved via alteration of other smaller functional amino acid chains.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Thu 14 Dec, 2006 12:58 pm
Nice find, wande - pretty well illustrates the deception, duplicity, and overall dishonesty characteristic of ID-iocy's proponents.
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 14 Dec, 2006 02:28 pm
Assertion.

Nice find, wande - pretty well illustrates the dignity, excellence and overall honesty characteristic of scientific proponents.

That's another.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 14 Dec, 2006 02:48 pm
Not to see anything wrong with the ID proponents is worse. LOL
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Thu 14 Dec, 2006 06:14 pm
Be nice now - spendi's apparent inability to understand and integrate what is there to be read may not be due to any conscious action on his part.
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 14 Dec, 2006 06:30 pm
And the sun "may not" rise tomorrow morning.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Thu 14 Dec, 2006 06:52 pm
Now, that's illuminating.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 14 Dec, 2006 06:55 pm
Real bright. Wink
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spendius
 
  1  
Fri 15 Dec, 2006 05:22 am
It sure is.

It means when you include "may not" in your sentence you haven't said anything definite but you have got the smear in on unattentive readers and thus given them an impression entirely out of your own head. And a false one.

Which is even more obvious from "apparent inability".

Nice easy work if you don't mind insulting your audience's intelligence which is a regular feature of the anti-ID position.

Why would I bother with stuff which has been-

Quote:
cited by anti-evolutionists as evidence that intelligent design is backed by serious science.


when I am on the record as agreeing that intelligent design is not backed by science except in regard to social consequences and that it never can be. The statement only needs two anti-evolutionists anyway and I daresay that number of anti-evolutionists could be found to cite anything as evidence of a vast range of things.

The word "serious" is un-necessary as well. It is a wasted word and as Bob Dylan said from the watchtower-

"Wasted words that prove to warn
He not busy being born is busy dying."

It is the same with "proponents" and with "scientists". wande's quote is simply not worth reading. It is meaningless and especially so to people, a large majority I would say, who haven't the faintest idea what-

Quote:
Calculates the probability that a random sequence of amino acids will result in the folded shape that a protein needs to function as an enzyme.


actually means.

One would be entitled to expect that those offering advice on how to organise education for a nation of 300 million people would start by learning how to use the language they speak properly and with scientific rigour.

Hence it is "bright" as c.i. said because it demonstrates that anti-IDers resort to wind and piss every chance they get and that they expect their audience to be influenced by such things and when wind and piss is allied to power the rot has well and truly set in and therefore granting power to anti-IDers is dangerous if rot is dangerous.
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