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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Sat 30 Sep, 2006 05:25 am
Why do I feel like a big mouth bass with a hula popper in front of him?

BEEN THERE_DONE THAT_GOT THE TEE SHIRT
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farmerman
 
  1  
Sat 30 Sep, 2006 05:33 am
rl
Quote:
So you are very convinced that intelligent design is a religious view?
.
This reminds me of the old grade school joke
"Other than that Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?"
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real life
 
  1  
Sat 30 Sep, 2006 07:35 am
farmerman wrote:
Therefore, in conclusion, we have shown that Intelligent Design is dependent upon a religious worldview and , should not be taught as science


farmerman wrote:
rl
Quote:
So you are very convinced that intelligent design is a religious view?

Let me ask you then, is it your position that it is not the province of science to advocate either for or against a religious view?
.
This reminds me of the old grade school joke
"Other than that Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?"


Yes it may seem like a loaded question, but only because the answer is so obvious.

An 'objective' view would be that science can neither argue for or against a religious view.

But if one wishes to argue against a religious view in science classroom, then a reasonable objection can hardly be raised if another wants to argue for a religious view in the same science classroom.

And just when you thought you had it figured out.
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spendius
 
  1  
Sat 30 Sep, 2006 08:10 am
That point has been raised already but in different forms.

How an answer to an exam question involving these issues would be marked.

And how have students going from one class to another where opposite views are maintained.

How keep the peace in the staff room.

And outside the gates maybe.

Once social consequences are ignored sight is lost of the political aspects which really are all that matter as they will decide and a particularly messy decision it will be too.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Sat 30 Sep, 2006 08:10 am
real life,

My own conclusion is a modest one: science should be taught as science and religion should be taught as religion.
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spendius
 
  1  
Sat 30 Sep, 2006 09:03 am
I must say wande how much I admire your modesty and you being so modest about what is such a very modest view.

What you need are people who can become other people as they pass through various doors.

Or people who never pass through any doors.

Then it would be perfectly feasible to have what you suggest.

Or if you were to limit the science teaching to subjects which are not disputed as is done in biology and sex lessons.

You could be making a case for fundamentalism there in respect of the case of not passing through any doors as in monasteries and those schools in Pakistan. Assuming people don't easily become other people and that you are against limiting science teaching.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Sat 30 Sep, 2006 11:06 am
real life wrote:
An 'objective' view would be that science can neither argue for or against a religious view.


And it doesn't. Science ignores religion. It's religion (or a lot of people's view of it) which can't ignore science.

real life wrote:
But if one wishes to argue against a religious view in science classroom


This doesn't happen, and if it did, I would object to it.

Science doesn't address religion, so why on earth should a science class address religion.

real life wrote:
And just when you thought you had it figured out.


You're making yourself look like an idiot.
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spendius
 
  1  
Sat 30 Sep, 2006 11:59 am
ros wrote-

Quote:
This doesn't happen, and if it did, I would object to it.


That is my position. But teaching evolution properly is arguing against religion. That what all the fuss is about. Nobody is arguing about magnetism or inclined planes.

Welcome to the fold ros.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Sat 30 Sep, 2006 12:18 pm
spendius wrote:
...teaching evolution properly is arguing against religion.
yes, religion 0 reason 1
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Sat 30 Sep, 2006 01:14 pm
spendius wrote:
teaching evolution properly is arguing against religion


Incorrect.

There's a big difference between arguing against something and simply observing something which happens to be in conflict with another persons viewpoint.

Teaching evolution properly, is simply teaching it. Trying to make evolution match up with some imaginary social morality or religious view is anthropomorphism on a grand scale.

spendius wrote:
That what all the fuss is about. Nobody is arguing about magnetism or inclined planes.

Welcome to the fold ros.


We already know what's botherin 'em Spendi. It's never been a mystery.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Sat 30 Sep, 2006 01:21 pm
Quote:
Let me ask you then, is it your position that it is not the province of science to advocate either for or against a religious view?

Ros said it better than I could.
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spendius
 
  1  
Sat 30 Sep, 2006 01:23 pm
Language is anthropomorphic.

Man Gave Names To All The Animals.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Sat 30 Sep, 2006 01:24 pm
Religion is a general concept. Not everyone who is religious is threatened by evolution. Only certain fundamental religions viewpoints are in conflict with evolution (and cosmology, and geology, and physics, etc).

Evolution isn't the only science under attack. Our basic understanding of star formation and cosmology is in conflict with short timeframes (young earth assumptions). The same goes for our understanding of geology and teradynamics.

Since all these areas of science are linked, the core challenge is to our ability to understand anything. Some people simply believe that we cannot perceive reality well enough to tell how old the planet is, or to understand how mountains and canyons were formed. This despite the fact that in every other way, science demonstrates fundamental success in realistic situations, like landing rovers on Mars.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Sat 30 Sep, 2006 02:59 pm
ros, I really believe that we are wasting time with spendi. He doesnt yet realize that ID is the core of all Creationism. Its the old "pocket watch on the beach argument".

Spendi is merely contrarian because it briefly focuses attention upon him, and we get sucked in, turning from the subject at hand and instead, making HIM the subject. He loves that.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Sat 30 Sep, 2006 03:00 pm
spendi
Quote:
Language is anthropomorphic.


HAIL to the master of the bleedin obvious
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spendius
 
  1  
Sat 30 Sep, 2006 03:21 pm
I only said that because anthropomorphism had been brought in to discredit something or other. I know it's obvious. I was addressing ros who didn't seem aware of it.

Quote:
Spendi is merely contrarian because it briefly focuses attention upon him, and we get sucked in, turning from the subject at hand and instead, making HIM the subject. He loves that.


I am always trying to get you back to the subject in hand. The classroom say, the staff room, M.La Mettrie now. He is your founder.

If the subject had no relevance to social consequences it wouldn't be being discussed except by a few specialists. The fossils and the big-brained monkeys et al are nothing to do with ID and that's the subject and, with Dover, the classroom.

I think your remark applies more to yourself and what's in your office.

According to all polls anti-ID is contrarian. What do you know about me. You have told us plenty about yourself and all of it either directly or tangentially self complimentary.

It's one long assertion and never even an attempt to answer any points.
Like booing.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Sat 30 Sep, 2006 04:40 pm
farmerman wrote:
ros, I really believe that we are wasting time with spendi. He doesnt yet realize that ID is the core of all Creationism. Its the old "pocket watch on the beach argument".

Spendi is merely contrarian because it briefly focuses attention upon him, and we get sucked in, turning from the subject at hand and instead, making HIM the subject. He loves that.


I know.

So, what were we talkin about again? Smile
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spendius
 
  1  
Sat 30 Sep, 2006 05:04 pm
I don't know but it's a certaintity that it distracts you from the classroom and thus allows you to believe that you are making a significant contribution to this debate whilst not doing.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Sat 30 Sep, 2006 05:08 pm
Quote:
According to all polls anti-ID is contrarian. What do you know about me. You have told us plenty about yourself and all of it either directly or tangentially self complimentary.

It's one long assertion and never even an attempt to answer any points.
Like booing.




1. Why should I beat myself up over something like you spendi? Youve been using your posts to divert most of us away from subjects at hand. If you dont even have a smidgeon of a clue, then look up "loon"

2Ive always answered points that seemed credible or arguments from a POV. I avoid your stuff because its flatulence that merely passes your hyoid and isnt usually relevant. Like your statement
Quote:
I am always trying to get you back to the subject in hand. The classroom say, the staff room, M.La Mettrie now. He is your founder.


That statement alone proves to me that you are either somewhat demented or are a pathological liar. You were the one who brought up la Mettrie up as some kind of attempt at a lame argument (on what, Im not certain, Since your personal neologism of "anti-ID" has no reference in fact). You notice that noone bit at this .
Even the Creationists and many of the IDers produce topical questions and comments that, while often repetetive, arent meant with an evil intent as some kind of masturbatory game as yours .

You are really a pathetic soul {cf. Webster's 20th Century, unabridged (def no.7)}. Always seeking attention, and not very well might I submit.

However, likemost nonsense, there is something weirdly attention getting about your posts, like a car crash with guys in clown suits
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real life
 
  1  
Sat 30 Sep, 2006 05:22 pm
rosborne979 wrote:
real life wrote:
An 'objective' view would be that science can neither argue for or against a religious view.


And it doesn't. Science ignores religion. It's religion (or a lot of people's view of it) which can't ignore science.

real life wrote:
But if one wishes to argue against a religious view in science classroom


This doesn't happen, and if it did, I would object to it.

Science doesn't address religion, so why on earth should a science class address religion.



So if a student in a public school science class asked about creation, should the teacher tell him:

a. it isn't true

b. science cannot determine whether it is true or not

c. simply tell him not to dare ask that question
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