Trust me, spendi - I've made many trips to and from many haylofts - and sometimes all aquiver with prurient anticipation on the way up and all atremble with sweaty, sated exhaustion on the way down. Country living, country girls, country entertainments and all that, you know.
'fraid "those were the days" though - any more, my hayloft frequenting has to do almost exclusively with feeding livestock ... still plenty of sweat, but not much entertainment.
And you don't know what intelligent design is after all that?
Sheesh!
Quote:And you don't know what intelligent design is after all that?
The only "intelligent design" that one could imagine is that one
1always have available some comfy blankets
and
2never go couchee on alfalfa bales. Somebody could get killed
That's anti-IDers to a "T".
Always putting their concerns for comfort and safety above more important things. Probably need everything doing for them as well. Who cares about getting killed. There's plenty more where I came from.
Thinking about it in the bath I realised I should have said "creature comforts".
Anti-IDers are creatures. Some IDers, possibly most, may well be creatures too but not all of them. Some IDers can attain pure intellectual states where comfort and safety considerations disappear. You can easily be made to jump out of your skin like that. A creature never leaves off them except when asleep and then not all the way.
The introduction of a pure anti-ID agenda, and you can only have a watered down one on pragmatic principles and you then concede the case,
would result in a disappearence of the capacity to daydream. The content of a daydream being a function of the education of the dreamer who might well be a scientist in a partial ID world. How would science proceed without the big-time dreamers which is what it seems to me you will get in a pure anti-ID world.
Intellectuality might be a function of the infinite being.
Orwell has his characters seeing, as best they can, to their comfort and safety.
One might learn something on an alfalfa bale that one might never learn in an office stuffed with expensive polished fossils and photographs of oneself looking good.
Like a bit of bloody humility in the face of nature.
farmerman wrote:Quote:And you don't know what intelligent design is after all that?
The only "intelligent design" that one could imagine is that one
1always have available some comfy blankets
and
2never go couchee on alfalfa bales. Somebody could get killed
Good heavy blankets, or better yet one of those quilted cool-down horseblankets, will work just fine on alfalfa bales.
spendiQuote:Who cares about getting killed. There's plenty more where I came from.
Timber, I dont know about you , but the thought of more like him , oy.
to spendi and other dylan fans...
http://www.newyorker.com/printables/critics/060904crbo_books
Just bumped into it. Haven't read the thing yet but Menand is himself a treasure.
Thanks Bernie-
I've read enough to know that I'll read it tomorrow.
Keep a clean head and always carry a lightbulb.
Whitemanstew.
After dinner with the brandy and port settling in His Eminence might start presenting the case in a similar manner I use.
He is being diplomatic there.
Anyway-what has been said on this thread about my posts does apply to the Cardinal also.
Some posters on here, I fear, have been moved by certain political considerations which they seem to have confused with philosophical and literary judgement and they must, if they are consistent, have to submit to the rigours of Marxist philosophy which I feel sure they won't be very comfortable with.
I'm happy that I'm with the Cardinal and not the vulgarity of the "Have gavel-will travel" judge and his no doubt lucrative tour of speaking gigs.
Come on lads- apply your crass assertions to him. He's a bit more of a challenging target than I present.
any debates forwarded by ID ers have purposely avoided reliance on anything that approaches evidence or data. Why is that?. The point that "life is too complex to have originated without a Designer" is about as defeatist an argument that Ive heard. Why study anything, "Its too complex well never understand it" seems to be the default position of ID. Then, by the same slight of hand, they want to make ID a scientific discipline. Science in the West will become another cargo cult with this attitude.
Evidence abounds that clearly shows that the planets changing environment parallels the rise of life from very simple forms to the most complex forms, including the various changes of the dominant species at any given time. This would have to be refuted by EVIDENCE for IDers to make any successful dents in the Facts of evolution. I can understand the need that IDers have to belittle and assign non scientific pop-sociological underpinnings to evolutions findings. Thats a decoy because, were ID a real science, it would not need to resort to "if-then" arguments like an elementary theorem in plane geometry.
When IDers amass some credible data (including some irreducible complexity arguments that hold water) then , perhaps, they can claim some science in their midst. AS it stands, they are clearly a religiously inspired sodality that only has place dominance on ther agenda.
Spendi, your "arguments" have, by being pretty much diversionary from the core arguments of the place of science in ID, been exactly the proof of my above submission. If you had any data , dont you think youd have used it to dazzle us by now? You dont do justice to a scientific discussion by lame attempts at diversionary slight of hand.
If the Pope does listen to Schonborn and does advance a 180 degree posture shift on this issue, itll be nothing more than the continuation of the "dumbing down" of the Church that was speeded up by Voytela. As far as educated religious layity, Im sure it will speed up their decisions to become Lutherans but , as the Church itself has recognized, Its own major growth corridor is in the Third World, and a good superstition base would help that cause immensely.
farmerman wrote:If the Pope does listen to Schonborn and does advance a 180 degree posture shift on this issue, itll be nothing more than the continuation of the "dumbing down" of the Church that was speeded up by Voytela. As far as educated religious layity, Im sure it will speed up their decisions to become Lutherans but , as the Church itself has recognized, Its own major growth corridor is in the Third World, and a good superstition base would help that cause immensely.
In that endeavor, the Catholic Church is in a race with fundamentalist and charismatic sects which are laying on the propagation of their superstition of chioce with a will. It is not just in the "third world," either, that this occurs. Many, many pages ago i alluded to the flap raised in northern Québec by a teacher who was told he must not mention evolution, and who was laughed at by students who called him "monkey." All of the reports of this event have pointed out that the Pentacostals have been vigorously proselytizing the Inuit and other "First Nations" people in the north of Canada for fifteen years or more. That is a period long enough that the school children in question have likely known no other preferred superstition than that peddled by the Pentacostal "missionaries." There is no basis in the native cosmology of the Inuit to object to a theory of evolution, and the conclusion is therefore inescapable that this attitude on the part of the school board as well as of the students is a product of a fundamentalist religious propaganda which has derided a theory of evolution from the very beginning of their "mission" in the Canadian north.
So, what were saying is that the CatholicChurch may be trying to "fit right in there".
Next thig , there will be a fiddle and banjo High mass with everybody handling rattlesnakes and speaking Klingon.
I don't care if it rains or freezes
Long as i got my plastic Jesus
Sittin' on the dashboard of my car . . .
farmerman wrote:If the Pope does listen to Schonborn and does advance a 180 degree posture shift on this issue, itll be nothing more than the continuation of the "dumbing down" of the Church that was speeded up by Voytela.
I am willing to bet serious money that Ratzinger will never do this. Although he's a conservative, he decidedly is neither anti-intellectual nor a Southern Baptist.
AND IT DONT MATTER IF N THE WEATHERGETS HAIRY
SO LONG"S I GOT THE VIRGIN MARY
NEXT TO JESUS ON THE DASHBOARD OF MY CAR
Celebrating the Holy Family. we need a stanz celebrating Joseph
OK THomas, Ill put up some serious e-money(100 virtual euros) and bet that there will be a council convened to further study this entire new direction.
Almost Nothing in the CAtholic Church happens in less than a century.
farmerman wrote:any debates forwarded by ID ers have purposely avoided reliance on anything that approaches evidence or data. Why is that?
You can find the answer in the article JW posted, where Mr. Schönborn answers it: "The debate lies, he said, 'between a materialist interpretation of the results of science and a metaphysical philosophical interpretation.'" Unlike outright creationists, ID proponents have no quarrel with the data. They have a problem with a materialist interpretation of the data.
Well I don't want no Abba Zabba
Don't want no Almond Joy
There aint nothing better or more suitable for this boy
Well its the only thing that can pick me up
Better than a cup of gold
See only a chocolate Jesus
Can satisfy my soul
