Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

Spendius wrote:

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A strict Darwinian evolutionist as President eh? Hold on to your hats!!

No real scientist is strict about anything other than the scientific method. The freedom to doubt is the backbone of scientific investigation and theory development. Without doubt and curiousity there is no science.......only dogma, which is to be distinguished from religion. Therefore no "strict" Darwinian is a real scientist.

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wande-

Do you think it is moderate to go about saying we are just monkeys,that our lives are meaningless, that anything goes in a sex romp, that price gougers are the only rational tradesmen, that the Pope,and all his works is, nothing but a con, that there's no Father Christmas and that insulting people with irrationally blurted insults is a natural form of discourse acceptable in the editorial chair of Scientific American?

Lola-

Scientific methodologists are only scientific methodologists when they want to be. The ones I have met are a very long way from being "strict".There is more than a bellyfull of doubt in the annals of doctrine refining due to the object of study being ever changing and often unpredictable and structurally inconsistent.

And there is more than a bellyfull of belief in some, possibly all, interpretations of light patterns on photographic plates. I gather that black holes do not now exist for example.

Without religion you would be squatting on your haunches in a cave gnawing a bone with luck and shivering with fear. Without religion you would be a primitive savage.

Do the passengers chomping away on a luxury cruise whilst discussing the beautiful sunset know how the ship was made or is worked?

But I'm not sure what your post means in terms of making decisions which affect millions of kids.

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spendius wrote:

wande-

Do you think it is moderate to go about saying we are just monkeys,that our lives are meaningless, that anything goes in a sex romp, that price gougers are the only rational tradesmen, that the Pope,and all his works is, nothing but a con, that there's no Father Christmas and that insulting people with irrationally blurted insults is a natural form of discourse acceptable in the editorial chair of Scientific American?

Your characterizations are not moderate, spendi.

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wande-

I only presented a simplified version of the logic of scientific methodology which I thought to be quite discreet. I can do an immoderate one but I fear the Mods would delete it.

Can you imagine a world in which nobody knows how to tell lies. One of the functions of a religious education, possibly the most important, is to inculcate a skill with economical versions of the truth and it is such a difficult skill that learning it at an early age is the only way to get even half decent at it.

A TV picture for example is a series of dots of some primary colours which dances before your eyes for the sole purpose of hypnotising you without you ever knowing you are in the sort of trance which flatters your narcissism. It's a bit like sequins on the rear dress of ladies lit from above by candlelight or strobe effects the former being rendered down bits of the abbattoir waste with a string up the middle and the latter being connected by a system of wires, which there is no need for you to understand, to water gushing through a turbine, in a lake the name of which escapes me just now, and is only water colloquially and in fact, without telling any lies, is fairly concentrated fish ****.

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If you truly believe that ID isnt a "stealth Creationism", Might I suggest the following test

1Go find a professed IDer (someone like Ican or even gungasnake will serve i a pinch)

2Engage them in a conversation and admit that ID is a "scientific viewpoint"

3Then go a step further and state that "in my head, ID is actually thesitic evolution"

See what happens.

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fm-

I don't see what the persons you mention have to do with this discussion.

It is odd that they never join this thread don't you think? After all we do discuss topics they are seemingly interested in.

I have enough faith in your judgement to know that the reaction you predict for your test will take place automatically and you have coloured that in nicely for us in the past for which much gratitude.

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shpendi. Ill work on my spelling, you work on taking a deep breath between thoughts. Then the punctuation will flow.

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spendi wrote:
I have enough faith in your judgement to know that the reaction you predict for your test will take place automatically and you have coloured that in nicely for us in the past for which much gratitude.

Is this a fragment?

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Office of the Kansas Secretary of State: Unofficial 2006 Primary Election Results - First results to be posted shortly after closing of polls, 7:00PM Central Time, Tues Aug 1, 2006. Updates will be posted thereafter at 10-minute intervals.

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I'm on the edge of my seat chewing on my fingers the nails being long gone.

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By John Hanna

Updated: 1 hour, 29 minutes ago
TOPEKA, Kan. - Kansas Board of Education members who approved new classroom standards that call evolution into question faced a counterattack at the polls Tuesday from Darwin's defenders.

Five of the 10 seats on the board were up for election in the primary, the latest skirmish in a seesawing battle between faith and science that has opened Kansas up to international ridicule.

Last November, the Board of Education's 6-to-4 conservative Republican majority rewrote testing standards for public schools to incorporate language supported by advocates of intelligent design, which holds that life is so complex it must have been created by some kind of higher power. The new standards say that some aspects of evolution are contradicted by scientific evidence. (Click here for a PDF file listing the standards.)

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c.i. quoted-

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intelligent design, which holds that life is so complex it must have been created by some kind of higher power.

Can you not miss that out mate. It really is a boring sentence.

I have tried to train myself to spot it early and skim it but it would respect fellow threader's intelligence if you just deleted it altogether as they already know due to constant repetition like they know that "so complex" means something only anti-IDers can grasp.

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spendi, You'll have to address your querry to John Hanna, the writer of that article. I was just trying to provide an update on the issue in Kansas.

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c.i.-

I clicked where you said and nothing happened.

Do you get a kick out of having us undertake pointless actions.

You quoted Hanna on this thread. Hanna didn't. He was writing for people who are just coming out of school or have been in a coma for a few years.

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Spendi, spendi, spendi..........what ARE we going to do with you?

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Lola wrote:

Spendi, spendi, spendi..........what ARE we going to do with you?

In mind of the current Kansas focus of part of this discussion, might I suggest you drop a house on him?

And a Kansas Update: while its early in the reporting, and the bulk of it is yet to come in, by the trending of what is available as of 9:30PM Central Time, some 2 ½ hours after closing of polls, victory parties are not gonna prominently feature successful conservative Kansas Board Of Education incumbents.

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Wassamadder?

Do you not like free and frank exchanges of views?

The founder of modern feminism is notorious for snarling freely and frankly and she's still on top form 40 years after she started on her mission with her "all men are rapists" catchphrase.

Some said, Mr Mailer for instance, -

"Germaine, Germaine, Germaine..........what ARE we going to do with you?" They say he banged his manhood on the table for emphasis.

They made her a multimillionairress and gave her a Professorship at Oxford and editors and producers beg for her time and even that hasn't tamed her.

Did I say anything as severe as "all men are rapists"?

She meant it too and produced a logical argument which isn't easy to refute without bald assertions.

Why do your polls close in the late afternoon? Ours are open till 2200 hrs.
Is it so you can be all tucked up in bed before South Park comes on.

In view of timber's inside information should I buy shares in school text book companies?

You do realise that those outside the trough have more motivation than the complacent ones inside. When the "believers" are all outside you won't credit how the fur will fly.

It's early days.

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spendius wrote:

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How so? What is the result of evolution being taught? Hm? I remember you once talked about how it would mean everyone would abandon Christianity, in favour of survival of the fittest and eugenics but there's nothing to support that.

The fittest would support it and does anybody else really matter?

No, that's not what I meant and you, as an English person should know that. I said there's nothing to support that, not "no one would support that". Nothing, as in no evidence.

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Where is the evolutionary argument on drugs in sport or on football without referees.

What's your point? What has that got to do with anything?

Those people aren't doing drugs because of the Theory of Evolution. They're doing it because they want to win, because they'd cheat to win. Note that in America, where fewer people believe in the Theory of Evolution than over here, that just as many people dope?

Doping has nothing to do with the Theory of Evolution or of its teaching. What has the theory got to do with doping? Nothing. What does it teach on that matter? Nothing.

Evolution isn't about survival of the fittest. It's about survival of the fittest genes, which inevitably means passing on those genes. What's doping got to do with survival of the fittest genes? Nothing.

Applying evolution to everything is stupid and impractical. It's like trying to apply Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle to everything.

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You must be joking!

Nope. Not joking.

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KANSAS UPDATE

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Education board evolving
(By Tim Vandenack, The Hutchinson News, August 2, 2006)

Ken Willard, the conservative District 7 incumbent on the Kansas Board of Education, was on his way to victory Tuesday in the Republican primary for the post.
Meanwhile, moderates appeared headed to victory in the contests for two other board of education slots that have been held by conservatives. That bodes for an end to the 6-4 conservative majority on the body and possible reversal of changes to the state's science standards that had allowed for more classroom criticism of evolution, a hot-button issue that had generated national attention.
"The impact is great, you go from 6-4 to 4-6," said Burdett Loomis, a University of Kansas political scientist, alluding to the ideological shift.
With ballots counted from 85 percent of the District 7 precincts, Willard, a Hutchinson insurance company manager, led moderate Republican challenger Donna Viola of McPherson 9,995 votes to 6,937.
M.T. Liggett of Mullinville, another Republican hopeful, trailed with 1,709 votes.
"I'm feeling a lot more comfortable now than I was earlier in the evening," Willard said, alluding to returns early on that indicated a tighter contest. "I'm very appreciative of all the support I've received."
In the other contests:
Sally Cauble of Liberal, the moderate challenger in the District 5 Republican primary, appeared on her way to victory over Connie Morris, the controversial conservative incumbent from St. Francis.
With votes from 75 percent of the precincts in the western Kansas district counted, Cauble was winning 9,589 votes to 8,279.
Jana Shaver of Independence, the moderate Republican hopeful in the District 9 contest, held a sizable lead over the more conservative candidate, Brad Patzer of Neodesha, 12,182 votes to 8,870. District 9 covers southeast Kansas, and conservative Republican incumbent Iris Van Meter, Patzer's mother-in-law, did not seek re-election.
John Bacon, the conservative Republican incumbent in District 3 in northeastern Kansas, had things in hand there, with 10,148 votes to 8,269 for Harry McDonald, the moderate challenger.
Janet Waugh, the only moderate up for re-election this cycle, was headed to victory in the Democratic primary, leading challenger Jesse Hall 7,147 votes to 4,269.
At stake Tuesday was the makeup of the Kansas Board of Education.
Now, with a shift in favor of moderates, a reversal in course on the body is likely, notwithstanding results of the Nov. 7 general elections.
Reversal of the changes to the science standards is "almost a no-brainer," Loomis said.

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wolf-

I'm sorry but I can't make head or tail of your post.

I will ask you though what you mean by "cheat".And don't say please that it is breaking the rules. There are no rules in evolution. There's only destiny.

It's the old story. Evolution principles held just for the style and not for the substance.

I'm not talking about the situation now in which there's a Christian tradition for you to fall back on. What have you got to offer when the Christian position has been eradicated to hold back the logic of nature.

Not common decency I hope which is ,of course, a function of Christianity and forever under threat. Salammbo is a book which attempts to describe the situation before Christianity. Sir Henry Rider Haggard tells of a hard kept rule in tribes in S Africa which restricted access to females to those who had "dipped their spears in the blood of the enemy." He worked there when a young man in the Civil Service to Christianise them.Now all that is needed is a flash car bought on credit. (That's an image not to be taken literally).

They are hosting the World Cup in 2010.

Your style choice is as nothing compared to such things.

I don't think you understand the argument wolf. There's too much Christianity in you and you're only pretending otherwise. Perhaps you have not engaged with a source which has fully eradicated it and you would be wise to stay that way.

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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

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