Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

BTW-

I do it all the time then I can watch how you latch onto minor points to avoid the main one. You all have one hell of a record with that.

Failing that the usual technique is to reinvent what I've said in a form easy to shoot at.

In your typical contrarian manner, you have attempted to suggest that the Inuit could have learned the false concept that man is descended from monkeys from a variety of sources other than the Pentacostals. This is prima facia evidence that you know little or nothing about the Inuit. They have until very recently lived quite apart from the cultural stream of the modern world. That was precisely to the point of your sneering and failed attempt to deny my assertion that the Pentacostals are the obvious inferential source for the false contention that man is descended from monkeys.

Setanta-

It isn't "little or nothing". It is nothing.

You didn't assert. You said "reasonable conclusion" which I thought fair enough. It probably is a reasonable conclusion. That wasn't the point.
One Inuit person might have come back from years away in our world and told his people that we think we are descended from something similar to monkeys or something.

I'm avoiding monkey there on purpose because if I use it, as most people do, including an elected Republican mentioned on this thread months ago, you will pedantically jump on it and again evade the main point which was related to the all round benefit,or otherwise, of the missionary work with those people.

Do you think they are a benefit or not irrespective of this trivial issue? Don't we all have to take the rough with the smooth? What is the alternative to the missionaries?

spendi,

You should take a look at one of the excellent missionary threads provided on A2K's religion forum.

Given that la belle province pays for their housing, provides them food assistance, clothing assistance, job training, unemployment benefits and pays for their educational system, and has done so since 1912--i see absolutely no reason to ascribe any benefit to the Inuit from the Pentacostals.

rosborne and set, Ive not gotten into the mix yet but Id imagine that specific species that they talk about in "Abrupt appearance" are the many hardshelled seafood of the Cambrian 'explosion" like trilobites or the weird collection of specimens from the Burgess shale , also, theappearance of specific insects like paleopterans. Id have to search hard but their claims require a careful detailed look into the fossil record to defuse and Im certainly not a real expert on linneages or minor morphologicl changes.

yes the "abrupt appearance" is all based upon morphology and a bit on environmental reconstruction. Remember, its nicely presentable to the mouth breathers because someone can "say so" and it takes actual effort to curry the evidence against. There is no apparent conection to religion (at fist), It takes careful digging to see who the individuals are and where they originally stood. "Once a Creationist, always a Creationist" I say. No matter how hard they shout for their place in the academic lineup, they will always have their Bobble- baggage to deal with

It is worth noting that the Dover stealth candidate shot themselves in the collective foot because they couldn't keep their collective mouth shut. They crowed about their religious agenda immediately after being elected. If there is a concerted effort to pass off "abrupt appearance" as hard science, and no one is stupid enough to tip their hand, then it will be that much more difficult to unmask them. For it to work, however, folks like the boys and girls down at the Discovery Institute will have to remain strictly hands off with regard to the new batch of "scientists" purporting "abrupt appearance." That would be the point at which, as i mentioned a long time ago, a professional historian becomes useful, because of their skills in tracking down records and making the necessary connection.

The best bet the religious crowd have is to attempt to use people who have not been "tainted" by the "intelligent design" controversy.

It seems that spendus et al define evolutionary processes in terms of saltation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltation_%28biology%29

or what the 19th century called "Hopeful Monsters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopeful_Monster

Their problem is their understanding of evolution is 100 years out of date.

fm-

How abrupt is abrupt. Does it mean instantaneous?


Setanta-

If the dear Inuit are such a drain on our resources why don't we leave them alone. I gather it was business as usual for them for a long time before we came along.

It's an old colonial dodge to grab somebody's land and whatever assets it has and then whinge about what wastrels they are. There are a lot more people in England getting the benefits you list than there are these poor people. According to the Google page I just read there's only 50,000 of them in total and very thinly spread. There's probably more witches in New York than that.

There must be around 40 million kids in the American educational system and the Inuit would only have about 10,000 in the same age range.

What the Pentacostals do with that is hardly relevant to a debate about education in the US unless you wish to use it to hang a few castigations on.

setsez. yeppers, I recall that , we were having that very discussion just as the whole trial began and only after the Discovery Institute threatened to pull up its tent did they actually shut up Now the very crowd who didnt get the point of mainatining radio silence is doing a "swift boat' on Judge Jones. The Evangelical Rightwingers can disembowel and eat their own if they cant command and control.. However, Judge Jones, bless his heart, is having a field day by speaking to graduating classes all over Pa.
Meanwhile that loued thudding noise from out West is the staff of the Discovery Institute banging their heads with 2by4"s.

Typical Spendi drivel. I'm not whining about anything, and your contentions about colonial dodges is hilarious in its complete irrelevance. The Inuit are not a drain on Americans, because they live in Canada. The Inuit are not a drain on Sassanachs, because they live in Canada. You just make bigger ass of yourself everytime you shoot off your mouth and provide more evidence of how little you know.

spendi. I didnt make up the phrase. I can only assume its in a stratigraphic sense.

Acqu wrote-



You really ought to try reading my posts before making comments on them in the interest of not looking silly.

Who or what is this "et al" of which you speak with such authority?

fm wrote-



You used the phrase fm. You ought to know what it means therefore.

Once again Setanta you have picked up a minor point in order to evade the real issue which is why you brought these poor people into this discussion. Oops-slanging match.

fm wrote-



Will he be on wages and get to park his "Have Gavel Will Travel" wheels for free? Any dinners and booze-ups after the gig when the punters have left?

Has anybody asked him to autograph a Bible yet? Does he wear a "Kiss Me Quick" hat?

Gee-I got all the ?s in.

They are doing a little bit more than that, farmerman. The Discovery Institute is getting "product placement" in college biology textbooks. (See the Richmond, Virginia news item that I posted earlier today.)

That's a sobering point to make, Wandel. Textbook publishers are an especially vulnerable group, because they deal in volume, and have an extraordinary fear of offending potential customers. They have a habit of just leaving out controversial issues, or worse, putting in any and all viewpoints.

wandel. Lets see how long that lasts in "real universities" , I dont mean Liberty College or some college where the instructors were asleep at the switch. Even in your article the instructor admits that he first gave approval before he even looked at the text

. I have a buddy who teaches at JMU and he stated that the textbook review panels have been given stricter charges regarding such matters.They dont want anything but peered science in science. Weve had a panel that overviews and (if needed) overrules the instructors choices for texts. In all the years Ive been involved in teaching, Ive never seen a text get second guessed . This entire issue is very recent .

I see a bunch of colleges and U's adopting policies like they did at lehigh to, in effect, isolate Mike Behe.

So!

You're a teacher then.

No wonder you have avoided Veblen etc.

I would continue with your policy if I was you at this late stage.