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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Sun 14 May, 2006 01:05 pm
I hope you don't mind if I do one scrap of copy paste as its been said much better than me many times.
Quote:
In physics, unified field theory is an attempt to unify all the fundamental forces and the interactions between elementary particles into a single theoretical framework. The term was coined by Einstein who attempted to reconcile the general theory of relativity with electromagnetism in a single field theory. His quest proved elusive and a unified field theory, sometimes grandiosely referred to as the Theory of Everything (TOE, for short), has remained the holy grail for physicists, the long-sought theory which would explain the nature and behavior of all matter.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 14 May, 2006 01:12 pm
Chumly, That explains it quite clearly, and thank you for that! However, most of us are still struggling with the basic of science. TOE is way, way, beyond my ability to comprehend or discuss. I'm sure people like Rosborne, timber, fm, Thomas, and some others can contribute to your discussion. Interesting theory, though, that TOE.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Sun 14 May, 2006 09:45 pm
Chumly wrote:


Huh?

I almost understood that while I was reading it, but when I tried to think about it, it squirted out of my brain somehow. But it's late here in rainy New Hampshire, so I'll have to try again tomorrow Smile
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Mon 15 May, 2006 08:13 am
KANSAS UPDATE

Quote:
Take Back Kansas brings effort to Hutchinson with Thursday rally
(By Mary Clarkin, The Hutchinson News, May 15, 2006)

A coordinated effort to boot conservatives off the State Board of Education will bring its campaign to Hutchinson.

A "Take Back Kansas" rally will start at 7 p.m. Thursday in the Justice Theater at Hutchinson Community College's Shears Technology Center. It is open to the public.

"The current board has a six-member majority that's pursuing a radical philosophical agenda at the expense of providing the best education for the children of Kansas," said Don Hineman, the Dighton farmer serving as chairman of the Kansas Alliance for Education.

Terms are ending for four conservatives - Ken Willard, Hutchinson; Connie Morris, St. Francis; John Bacon, Olathe; and Iris Van Meter, Thayer - and all but Van Meter are running for re-election.

"We're trying to emphasize to the voters the importance of the upcoming elections," Hineman said.

The primary election is Aug. 1, and the general election is Nov. 7.

Conservatives on the 10-member Board of Education are responsible for such controversial actions as the hiring of noneducator Bob Corkins as education commissioner and requiring that science standards incorporate criticism of evolution.

Other groups involved in Take Back Kansas are the MAINstream Coalition and Kansas Families United for Public Education.

"We're sort of working on strategies together," said Boo Tyson, executive director of MAINstream Coalition, an advocacy group for the separation of church and state.

"We have said that the most important thing is to bring us back to the middle," said Craig Grant, a former lobbyist for the Kansas National Education Association who now is active in the Kansas Alliance for Education.

Sue Gamble, a moderate Johnson County Republican whose term on the State Board of Education does not expire until January 2009, has spoken at Take Back Kansas rallies and will deliver opening remarks in Hutchinson.

Gamble said she would provide a brief history of the state Board of Education and talk about four or five issues it has addressed. She also will speak about the changing demographics of education in Kansas and describe the challenges schools face.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Mon 15 May, 2006 10:47 am
SOUTH CAROLINA UPDATE

Quote:
Professor to address evolution debate at USC
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spendius
 
  1  
Mon 15 May, 2006 02:24 pm
wande quoted-

Quote:
the hiring of noneducator Bob Corkins as education commissioner


What's a noneducating education commissioner ?

Quote:
"We have said that the most important thing is to bring us back to the middle,"


I don't see it. It's a black and whiter I'm afraid. The middle might be the worst of all worlds--but good for lawyers and self publicists and book publishers and editors etc. All white collar mushies.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Tue 16 May, 2006 04:58 am
SOUTH CAROLINA UPDATE

Quote:
S.C. eyes textbooks, `critical analysis'
(JOHN C. DRAKE, Associated Press, May 16, 2006)

Today, an S.C. House committee will consider an amendment that establishes how textbooks, software and other instructional materials are selected to require they "critically analyze" the subject matter.

It is the latest tactic by conservative lawmakers who want students to learn about what some people see as problems in the theory of evolution.

"I feel like we've got textbooks out there that are not appropriate," said Rep. Bob Walker, R-Landrum. As a member of the Education Oversight Committee, Walker has led an effort to convince the S.C. Board of Education to change wording in the evolution curriculum.

On Monday, a panel of philosophers and professors from other disciplines gathered at the University of South Carolina to discuss the evolution debate and how it has played out in the state.

While there was little debate in the room about the merits of evolution itself -- they appeared to universally support it -- there was consternation over how academics should respond.

Biologists, who say an understanding of evolution is crucial to learning how organisms became what they are today, say "critical analysis," as proposed by Walker and others, is a backdoor way to inserting intelligent design" into the curriculum.Intelligent design is a theory that life is so complex that there must have been a designer, namely God.

The evolution debate is likely to continue on at least two other fronts after today's meeting.

A one-year provision in the Senate's version of the state budget, which is set to be debated in a House-Senate committee, calls for all instructional materials to include "critical thinking."

Also, the academic standards panel of the Education Oversight Committee, rebuffed by the state Education Department in its latest effort to adjust the biology curriculum, is meeting next Monday. It is set to discuss how to resolve the impasse between the two agencies, which must agree on new standards.

At the philosophy seminar, Laura Walls, a USC English professor who specializes in literature and science, said a student once told her she had caused a "religious crisis" in the student's life by teaching evolution. His family and minister taught creationism, and he did not know which to believe.

"Part of me wants to say, let's clear up all this ignorance," she said.

But instead, she said she told the student to keep his religious views separate from his scientific views of life. "How do we help them through this?" Walls said.

Florida State University philosopher Michael Ruse, in town for a guest lecture Monday night, also said the issue was more complex than trying to prove anti-evolutionists wrong.

"I can't help feeling we're sitting around praising ourselves for being enlightened people," he said. "It's not about gaps in the fossil record. It's about morality."

At the State House, the chairman of the House Education and Public Works Committee, Rep. Ronald Townsend, R-Anderson, said he expects changes to the textbook bill Tuesday.

"I think there's enough concern about the way that language is for us to look very closely at it," he said.

Rep. Ken Clark, R-Swansea, voted against the proposal in subcommittee and said he will vote against it today.

"I believe that teaching of the Bible should be done in the home or in Sunday school," said Clark, who has taught Sunday school for 30 years.
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Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Tue 16 May, 2006 05:06 am
Quote:
http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=674042006

Creationism dismissed as 'a kind of paganism' by Vatican's astronomer
IAN JOHNSTON


BELIEVING that God created the universe in six days is a form of superstitious paganism, the Vatican astronomer Guy Consolmagno claimed yesterday.

Brother Consolmagno, who works in a Vatican observatory in Arizona and as curator of the Vatican meteorite collection in Italy, said a "destructive myth" had developed in modern society that religion and science were competing ideologies.

He described creationism, whose supporters want it taught in schools alongside evolution, as a "kind of paganism" because it harked back to the days of "nature gods" who were responsible for natural events.

Brother Consolmagno argued that the Christian God was a supernatural one, a belief that had led the clergy in the past to become involved in science to seek natural reasons for phenomena such as thunder and lightning, which had been previously attributed to vengeful gods. "Knowledge is dangerous, but so is ignorance. That's why science and religion need to talk to each other," he said.

"Religion needs science to keep it away from superstition and keep it close to reality, to protect it from creationism, which at the end of the day is a kind of paganism - it's turning God into a nature god. And science needs religion in order to have a conscience, to know that, just because something is possible, it may not be a good thing to do."

Brother Consolmagno, who was due to give a speech at the Glasgow Science Centre last night, entitled "Why the Pope has an Astronomer", said the idea of papal infallibility had been a "PR disaster". What it actually meant was that, on matters of faith, followers should accept "somebody has got to be the boss, the final authority".

"It's not like he has a magic power, that God whispers the truth in his ear," he said.


Of course, this applies only to Creationism, as if you couldn't tell.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Tue 16 May, 2006 11:40 am
Quote:
PBS to shine light on Dover design case
(KATHY STEVENS, The York Dispatch, May 16, 2006)

In an attempt to better define science, evolution and intelligent design, filmmakers are preparing a documentary that reviews lessons delivered last year in U.S. Middle District Court in Harrisburg.

Crews from "NOVA," a popular PBS science television series, will be in Dover, York and Harrisburg this summer conducting interviews and obtaining footage for a two-hour show centered on Kitzmiller et al. v. Dover Area School District.

Barbara Moran, senior researcher for Boston-based "NOVA," said crews paid attention to the trial and interest grew with each testimony. Scientists and theologians alike dissected and defined science, evolution and origin theories.

While District Court Judge John E. Jones III grappled with First Amendment issues and whether religious intent was behind the former board's decision, filmmakers saw the potential to clarify scientific theory and help the public determine whether science and religion complement the other.

"People said (the trial) was like the biology class you wish you would have taken," said Barbara Moran, senior researcher for "NOVA."

In recent months, Moran has culled excerpts from court transcripts for the documentary. That information will be forwarded to a director who, with "NOVA" senior executive producer Paula Apsell, will determine what portions will be used, and re-enacted.

"The idea is to allow viewers to walk away and make up their own minds," Moran said. "There seems to be a false dichotomy between evolution and religion, and we're hoping this show can make it clear."

Apsell said there is a lot of controversy when science meets politics and religion. She added that many people separate science from religion, seeing each as pitted against the other.

Dover became the first school district in the nation to require mentioning intelligent design as an alternative theory to evolution when the school board approved a statement to make students "aware of gaps/problems in Darwin's Theory of Evolution and other theories including, but not limited to, intelligent design. Note: Origins of life will not be taught."

Eleven parents of students subsequently filed suit in December 2004 against the district and its board. On Dec. 20, 2005, Jones issued a 139-page ruling that ended Dover's yearlong debate. He said such teaching in that forum violated the Constitution's First Amendment Establishment Clause, which states that governments can't establish or inhibit the free exercise of religion.

Now in its 34th season, "NOVA" is produced at WGBH in Boston for PBS. Production of this documentary begins in July; it is expected to air next spring.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Tue 16 May, 2006 11:42 am
Wandel strikes again!

Thanks for your efforts to keep us posed, Boss.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Tue 16 May, 2006 01:55 pm
wandeljw wrote:
Quote:
PBS to shine light on Dover design case
(KATHY STEVENS, The York Dispatch, May 16, 2006)

In an attempt to better define science, evolution and intelligent design, filmmakers are preparing a documentary that reviews lessons delivered last year in U.S. Middle District Court in Harrisburg.

Crews from "NOVA," a popular PBS science television series, will be in Dover, York and Harrisburg this summer conducting interviews and obtaining footage for a two-hour show centered on Kitzmiller et al. v. Dover Area School District.


I can't wait. I just love wallowing in the overwhelming victory of science and law, over lunacy and political manipulation Smile
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spendius
 
  1  
Tue 16 May, 2006 02:09 pm
Well ros-

If it's a -

Quote:
popular PBS science television series,


you'll probably get your moments of glory.

Let it all hang out.

Get 'em spittin' feathers eh?
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Tue 16 May, 2006 02:27 pm
spendius wrote:
Well ros-

If it's a -

Quote:
popular PBS science television series,


you'll probably get your moments of glory.

Let it all hang out.

Get 'em spittin' feathers eh?


What the heck, ya gotta enjoy it while ya got it.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Tue 16 May, 2006 02:44 pm
spendi,

We would enjoy the PBS show even more if we can bind you to a chair and force you to watch!
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 16 May, 2006 02:48 pm
The only place spendi can be strapped to a chair is at his local pub.
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spendius
 
  1  
Tue 16 May, 2006 05:43 pm
I refuse to be tempted.Chair strapping is a dangerous sport. I'm a bit too wimpy for that.

Actually I had an interesting discussion in the pub tonight.

This geezer thought his eyesight had deteriorated in the last two years because he could see things further off better but was having trouble reading a newspaper and watching telly more.

I tried explaining to him that seeing things further off would enable him to see a lion stalking him more easily and thus increase his chances of survival with the consequent possibility of his ability to mate with more females whereas seeing a newspaper better is more likely to inhibit such a natural process and thus,in evolutionary terms, his eyesight had improved.

Obviously I questioned him about what he had been eating and whether or not he had been practicing masturbating with his left hand, he's a right-hander normally, but I couldn't get him to elaborate.

He went home feeling quite chuffed with himself and is probably,right now,trying to explain it all to his dear wife who has seen better days goodstyle.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 16 May, 2006 06:54 pm
and spendi thought himself a great wit. ACtually , since the old man is past his "evolutionarily significant maximum age" (ESMA), his ocular wearing down has no further consequence whatsoever. Hes but a salmon whose post spawning. Dont you get it?
Jeez, if your going to open yer yap to people, at least try to blabber more on the side of accuracy.


Of course, as I recall, being accurate has never concerned you before. All you wanna do is slip in Dylan and pre Keruoac crap.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Wed 17 May, 2006 04:52 am
SOUTH CAROLINA UPDATE

Quote:
Committee rejects 'critical analysis' in textbooks
(Associated Press, May 16, 2006)

Columbia, SC - A House committee today rejected a proposal to require that all new school textbooks incorporate "critical thinking and analysis."

Critics of how evolution is taught in biology classes proposed the language, which remains in a provision of the Senate's version of the budget. The House Education and Public Works committee rejected the amendment to the bill establishing how textbooks are selected and then killed the entire bill.

Several lawmakers questioned whether it was practical to expect that all textbooks, including math and history, incorporate critical analysis.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 17 May, 2006 05:14 am
fm wrote-

Quote:
Dont you get it?


It looks like you didn't.

Quote:
pre Keruoac crap.


What's that supposed to mean. Kerouac was a total failure. He arrived at
ESMA earlier than most of us. If you want to look up how to spell his name correctly get a copy of the Series of Dreams video and you'll see Dylan stood over his tombstone as the letters of the epitaph set on fire. It's a trick of course. The original is in Renaldo and Clara and in that the letters don't burn. Big lessons in one second flat are at the other end of the intellectual spectrum from timber's high-tech interminable post. I burn't my finger trying to scroll through it too fast.

It is odd how there is so much in art to do with male/female and yet these anti-IDers hardly ever mention the subject. Anti-ID looks to be an all male bonding exercise locked onto technobabble and equipment fetishism. TOP GEAR is their equivalent to a weekly mass here and AUTOCAR their catechism.

The irony is enough to lift eyebrows up as far as the Heaviside Layer.

Doesn't ESMA depend on social factors the way you use it. I'm sure there are Arab oilmen who are not past ESMA and are considerably older than my friend and one would expect short range blurred vision to be an advantage at times.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 17 May, 2006 12:36 pm
In another thread, a gentleman asked about the Canadian political system, so i gave him some information about Canadian politics in the last 70 or 80 years. He responded, and then, as an aside, said he thought that ID was not a matter of controversy in Canada. I suggested that it wasn't because it was a product of the peculiar sequence of events surrounding a theory of evolution and creationism in school curricula in the United States. I tried to write a brief précis of the recent court decisions which lead to the rise of "intelligent design," to explain why it is an American phenomenon. I'm going to post it here, because i have linked the relevant case law which covers the decisions of the Supreme Court in striking down creationism, and has a link to a Wikipedia article about Dover.

**************************************************

I don't believe the "intelligent design" debate is a current issue in Canada. It helps to understand the origin of the "intelligent design" scam to understand why, so far, it's been an issue only in the United States (there is evidence of it being exported to Britain, now, though, and perhaps other countries).

A teacher in Arkansas had a textbook which covered the topic of evolution, and she realized that it was in violation of a state law. She didn't want to lose her job over it, but she thought it was wrong. She took the case to court, and the law was upheld by the Arkansas Supreme Court; but, it went all the way to the United States Supreme Court. In 1968, in Epperson versus Arkansas, the Supremes struck down the state law, saying it violated the separation clause of the first amendment, which reads, in full: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. The first clause of that amendment is sometimes referred to as the separation clause, because it is held to mandate separation of chruch and state. Mr. Justice Fortas, in the majority opinion, wrote:

Quote:
There is and can be no doubt that the First Amendment does not permit the State to require that teaching and learning must be tailored to the principles or prohibitions of any religious sect or dogma.


Nothing deterred, religiously-minded people looked for a way to get around the decision, and laws were passed which mandated the teaching of "creationism" along side the teaching of evolution as scientific theory. That ended up at the Supreme Court, as well, in the case of a Louisiana law. In 1987, in a 7 to 2 decision, in the Edwards versus Aguillard case, that law was struck down, and writing for the majority, Mr. Justice Brennan wrote:

Quote:
. . . the Creationism Act is designed either to promote the theory of creation science which embodies a particular religious tenet by requiring that creation science be taught whenever evolution is taught or to prohibit the teaching of a scientific theory disfavored by certain religious sects by forbidding the teaching of evolution when creation science is not also taught. The Establishment Clause, however, "forbids alike the preference of a religious doctrine or the prohibition of theory which is deemed antagonistic to a particular dogma." Because the primary purpose of the Creationism Act is to advance a particular religious belief, the Act endorses religion in violation of the First Amendment.


These boys and girls are nothing, if not persistent. They came up with "intelligent design" in the attempt to put a patina of scientific respectability on creationism, and set out by political stealth to introduce it into schools. The test case has recently been decided in Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District. (I've posted the Wikipedia article for that case, as i didn't see a link to FindLaw, and i'm not going to spend all afternoon on this.) The judge in this Case, John Jones III (who happens to be a conservative Republican) wrote:

Quote:
For the reasons that follow, we conclude that the religious nature of ID [intelligent design] would be readily apparent to an objective observer, adult or child.


and

Quote:
A significant aspect of the IDM [intelligent design movement] is that despite Defendants' protestations to the contrary, it describes ID as a religious argument. In that vein, the writings of leading ID proponents reveal that the designer postulated by their argument is the God of Christianity.


and

Quote:
The evidence at trial demonstrates that ID is nothing less than the progeny of creationism"


and

Quote:
The overwhelming evidence at trial established that ID is a religious view, a mere re-labeling of creationism, and not a scientific theory.


It does not seem that anyone is willing to pay the cost of pursuing this further, and if you'll read the Wikipedia article (from which those quotes are taken, and which cites the judge's opinion), you'll see that the proponents of "intelligent design" got into a "meltdown" in this case, as the "stealth" candidates for the school board (that is people with a religious agenda who did not reveal their plans before being elected) had later (after being elected but before the court case) admitted publicly that their intent was the introduction of a religiously-based component in the curriculum. I don't know if anyone is willing to pursue this, but i doubt that they will. It's an expensive process, and their prospects aren't good--or at least don't appear to be.

So "intelligent design" arose in the United States as a means of trying to get around the 1968 and 1987 decisions by the Supremes which have served to establish evolutionary theory as a part of science education, and creationism as a religious doctrine which unacceptably violates the separation clause of the first amendment. Can't say if it will ever crop up in Canada, but don't lose faith in Steven Harper--he's a man with vision!
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