Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

I have said nothing about nightmarish dystopias.Such ideas never enter my head.Nightmarish for who?You are making a personal value judgement.

Exactly. Now you know how I feel about your posts. They're incredibly presumptuous.

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You give too much credit to the power of Evolution over the human mind.

Evolution theory has power over social systems.It operates unhindered in anarchic situations and,for us,Christian theology is a veneer which mitigates some of its effects and those who seek to remove the veneer have to expect the effects.

I can make a scientific case that monogamy is a perversion but I'm not going to because I don't agree that "whether the choices are good or bad is beside the point." The choice between good or bad is the only point as far as I'm concerned.

Im so outta here

Spendi must be dilerious with joy. This thred has stopped being about ID and is now , 100% all spendi. Its all about spendius thread.

Im so outta here

First Setanta, then me, now you...

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You give too much credit to the power of Evolution over the human mind.


Evolution theory has power over social systems.It operates unhindered in anarchic situations and,for us,Christian theology is a veneer which mitigates some of its effects and those who seek to remove the veneer have to expect the effects.


Rather presumptious, don't you think?

Ethics? Sure, you can teach it if you wish. But now that I think about it clearly, perhaps ethics itself should be taught in science, seeing as it is a major factor in scientific research.

So, what? I can make a scientific case that polygamy is a perversion.

ethics is needed in business as well.

Once again, from what I can read and understand of your post, your position is nothing to do with the teaching of science but to do with the teaching of ethics.

A bit of ID, eh? What does teaching ID, encourage, then, may I ask?

Where Does Life Come From?
(By HEATHER SLEIGHTHOLM, Sapulpa Daily Herald, March 29, 2006)

House Bill 2107, sponsored by Rep. Sally Kern, R-Oklahoma City, and known as the Academic Freedom Act, protects teachers who "present scientific information pertaining to the full range of scientific views" on the origins of life.

In addition to protecting the rights of teachers, the bill states that it would protect students' rights to hold an opinion on the origin of life that is in not in their textbooks.

The bill also states that "nothing in this act shall be construed as promoting any religious doctrine, promoting discrimination for or against a particular set of religious beliefs, or promoting discrimination for or against religion or non-religion."

"Some teachers feel they have to present Evolution as dogma or absolute fact," Kern said in a recent press release. "In reality, there are weaknesses and inconsistencies in evolutionary theory, and a teacher should have the opportunity to discuss those issues."

And while the bill does state that its goal is not to promote any particular religious doctrine, some Oklahoma education and religious leaders think the language used in the bill is meant to hide its true agenda.

"Our concern is what the authors mean by ?'full range of scientific views,'" said Dr. Peggy Hill, of the Oklahomans for Excellence in Science Education. "Whose views do these include? The Academic Freedom Bill is not necessary to ensure support of teachers and students as they strive for excellence, and it opens the door for abuse by those who would disrupt science education in the interest of a non-scientific agenda," Hill said.

In Sapulpa, opinions are mixed as to whether the bill would help or hinder public education.

State Rep. Brian Bingman, R-Sapulpa, said while there were some elements of the bill he had issues with, he decided to vote in favor of it anyway. "I voted for the bill because it allows a student not to be penalized if they have an opinion contrary to their textbooks," Bingman said.

Sapulpa High School science teacher Roger McDougal, who is also a minister, agrees that a bill to protect the rights of teachers and students to express their beliefs in an alternate creation would be a positive law. "I think that Creationism should be given equal time with Evolution in the classroom," McDougal said. "The theory of Evolution is just that -- a theory. And if we can teach one thing that can't be proved, why can't we teach another?"

High school teacher Del Patterson, however, feels the bill walks a fine line when it comes to separating church and state. "This bill is written in such a way that it says it will give teachers protection, but what does that mean?" Patterson said. "That they can proselytize in the classroom? I think the passing of this bill would Okie-ize us seriously in the eyes of people looking at our state. We would look like we were being led by fundamentalists," Patterson said.

George Krumme, a partner in Tulsa's Krumme Oil Company, agrees implementing Intelligent Design or other creation theories in the classroom would be a detriment to the state's reputation.

Krumme participated in a conference sponsored by the Tulsa Interfaith Alliance and Oklahomans for Excellence in Science Education on March 22. "In a world that is increasingly dependent on technological advances, most businesses recognize that a workforce trained in science and in technical skills is a significant asset," Krumme said. "For that reason, they are favorably impressed by states that have an educational system of high quality. The introduction of Intelligent Design into our schools as if it were a viewpoint based on science would be a detriment in appealing to businesses that Oklahoma would like to attract or keep," he said.

Religious leaders are also in disagreement about the bill. The Rev. Ken Price, of First Church of God in Sapulpa, believes the bill would have a positive effect on education. "I think that kids should get the full spectrum of creation theories," Price said, "and I personally think it is more of a leap of faith to believe in Evolution, with all its gaps in information, than to believe that a loving God created us all."

Not all religious leaders in the area, however, agree. The Rev. Russ Bennett, president of the Tulsa Interfaith Alliance, believes the teaching of religious doctrine should be left to religious officials and not public school teachers. "I feel that this bill is an attempt to represent religion in a bad way, and it would be bad science. Religion doesn't need to sneak into people's view under the disguise of a bill," Bennett said.

The bill, which passed the House in February, will be reviewed by the Senate in the coming weeks.

In addition to protecting the rights of teachers, the bill states that it would protect students' rights to hold an opinion on the origin of life that is in not in their textbooks.

Georgia University to Eliminate Geology Department
ATLANTA, GA?-Georgia's Kennesaw State University has announced that students at the former junior college will no longer be able to major in geology, the history of the earth as recorded in rocks. The 35-year-old geology department is being phased out as of the 2005/2006 academic school year. In their announcement, university administrators cited a growing consensus both within and outside of academia that the earth is around 6,000 years old, thus requiring little further historical study.

Students in the now defunct department are being encouraged to switch to another major within the school of biological, physical and creation sciences. Administrators have also announced the introduction of an innovative new concentration, 'Great Floodology,' in which undergraduates will spend four years examining physical evidence in support of the Biblical Great Flood.

ros wrote-

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First Setanta, then me, now you...

Mr Truman famously said-"If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen."

Aaw ros-it had hardly got warm.

If the student put 6,000 years on his test he can't be graded wrong. After all, he has the right to disgree with science if it conflicts with his religious beliefs.