Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

@Frank Apisa,

Frank you are consistent and clear. Some folks don't know the difference between listing beliefs and producing evidence.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

That was a slip, I meant quotes. I edited.

So I take it you believe/think/have the opinion that the concept of 'evidence' is bogus? You live in those rarified heights where you know only that you can never know too?

You’ve got more company than me.

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@Leadfoot,

I understand the English language, that is all my post confirmed.

Stop trying to put words in other people's mouths.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Anything that has not been established as impossible...is possible. .

OK, thanks Frank. That answers my question about your quotes around “evidence” too.
And leaves no room for discussion if Evidence is an illusion and one thing is just as likely as another.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

That was a slip, I meant quotes. I edited.

No problem. I use quotes because the stuff you are calling "evidence" is so ambiguous, I am not sure of what it is evidence for. Fact is...IF THERE IS AT LEAST ONE GOD...EVERYTHING IN THIS UNIVERSE IS EVIDENCE OF THAT GOD.

AND IF THERE ARE NO GODS...EVERYTHING IN THIS UNIVERSE IS EVIDENCE THAT THERE ARE NO GODS.

So I do not know if trees or fish or turnips or DNA is evidence that at least one god exists or if it is evidence that no gods exist.

Quote:

So I take it you believe/think/have the opinion that the concept of 'evidence' is bogus?

Not at all, Leadfoot.

But I am of the opinion that the "evidence" you are asking me to consider...is of no value at all in the issue we are discussing.

Quote:

You live in those rarified heights where you know only that you can never know too?

Aha...a clue. Thank you for that.

Quote:

You’ve got more company than me.

Okay. If you suppose you KNOW...not much I can say. I do KNOW that I do not KNOW.

1 Reply

@bobsal u1553115,

Quote:

Some folks don't know the difference between listing beliefs and producing evidence.

Only my conclusion in my argument was an opinion/belief/conclusion.

Every fact or statement other than that was 100% accepted mainstream biological science and I challenge you to prove otherwise.

I just presented the fact. Others are free to come to their own conclusion. I stated mine as a point from which others could offer counter argument (hopefully science or logic based)

But snide remarks are ok too if you can’t do the science.

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
Anything that has not been established as impossible...is possible. .

OK, thanks Frank. That answers my question about your quotes around “evidence” too.
And leaves no room for discussion if Evidence is an illusion and one thing is just as likely as another.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

Where have I ever said or intimated that "evidence is an illusion" or "one thing is just as likely as another?"

I do not think evidence is an illusion at all. But some evidence is of no value at all. You cannot derive any meaningful conclusions from it.

And as for one thing as likely as another...well, I love golf. I play five days a week. But if I were to play a round against Scottie Scheffler tomorrow, it is NOT JUST AS LIKELY THAT I WOULD WIN AS THAT HE WOULD.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Okay. If you suppose you KNOW...not much I can say. I do KNOW that I do not KNOW.

No, no!, that’s perfectly fine, whole buncha stuff I don’t know either.

It’s 'I know that I don’t know and that neither you nor I can ever know.' (Paraphrased from very old conversation) that I object to.

I think that’s where it got ‘abhorrent' before.

Only an idiot pretends to know what he doesn’t. No problem there.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

As I stated earlier I am open to civil discussion, but have to make an exception for bullies, racists, and megalomaniacs. People such as you and Izzie and some others who frequent the pages will find me willing and open.

Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
We can have fun discussing without making war on one another.

One can hope so anyway. But the weight of evidence ….

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

And as for one thing as likely as another...well, I love golf. I play five days a week. But if I were to play a round against Scottie Scheffler tomorrow, it is NOT JUST AS LIKELY THAT I WOULD WIN AS THAT HE WOULD.

I don’t know Scottie so I have no evidence to go on.

But I am glad you recognize that evidence is a valid concept.

If I encounter Chuck Yeager on this afternoon’s flight, it is not likely I would win in a dogfight.

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@Leadfoot,

Believe me, you don't want to give a scottie anything to go on.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/qWtdWLBeJAE/mqdefault.jpg

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
Okay. If you suppose you KNOW...not much I can say. I do KNOW that I do not KNOW.

No, no!, that’s perfectly fine, whole buncha stuff I don’t know either.

It’s 'I know that I don’t know and that neither you nor I can ever know.' (Paraphrased from very old conversation) that I object to.

I think that’s where it got ‘abhorrent' before.

Only an idiot pretends to know what he doesn’t. No problem there.

Only thing I would respond to here is that I try to refrain from saying stuff like "...can never know." That is an assertion I cannot make. If, for instance, there is a GOD (the kind so many people think exists)...it certainly has the capacity to make itself known to everyone in an unambiguous way any time it decided to do so.

I will say that the assertion "There are no gods" IS ALWAYS JUST A GUESS.

There is no way to KNOW there are no gods.

1 Reply

For some people, discussions of this kind become uncomfortable...and the nonsense about "bullying" (rather than arguments that cannot be successfully defeated) becomes the norm.

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@edgarblythe,

Quote:

As I stated earlier I am open to civil discussion, but have to make an exception for bullies, racists, and megalomaniacs. People such as you and Izzie and some others who frequent the pages will find me willing and open.

This is the longest running sub-thread in a 48 hour period that I can remember on A2K. (Maybe the word game threads last longer, but idk.)

I call that amazing!

2 Replies

@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
And as for one thing as likely as another...well, I love golf. I play five days a week. But if I were to play a round against Scottie Scheffler tomorrow, it is NOT JUST AS LIKELY THAT I WOULD WIN AS THAT HE WOULD.

I don’t know Scottie so I have no evidence to go on.

But I am glad you recognize that evidence is a valid concept.

If I encounter Chuck Yeager on this afternoon’s flight, it is not likely I would win in a dogfight.

Well, Chuck is dead...so your chances are not zero.

Scottie is setting the golf world on fire right now. He is hot as hot can be.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Only thing I would respond to here is that I try to refrain from saying stuff like "...can never know."

(A few words later..)

There is no way to KNOW there are no gods.

And by extension, no way to know there is at least one? (Don’t want to put words in yer mouth)

Dammit! Why can’t I see your claims as non contradictory?

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
Only thing I would respond to here is that I try to refrain from saying stuff like "...can never know."

(A few words later..)

There is no way to KNOW there are no gods.

And by extension, now way to know there is at least one? (Don’t want to put words in yer mouth)

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY TO KNOW THERE ARE NO GODS. BUT IF THERE IS A GOD...THE GOD COULD REVEAL ITSELF. SO WHILE IT MAKES SENSE TO SAY, "THERE IS NO WAY TO KNOW THERE ARE NO GODS"...

...IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE TO SAY, "THERE IS NO WAY TO KNOW THERE IS AT LEAST ONE."

There is no contradiction there, Leadfoot.

Quote:

Dammit! Why can’t I see your claims as non contradictory?

I'm not sure why at all.

None of my claims ARE contradictory...so it should be a snap.

Perhaps you do not want to see them as non-contradictory.

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@Leadfoot,

Only if ones thinks constant repetition of your opinion over and over is meaningful.

It's not. Not by a mile.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY TO KNOW THERE ARE NO GODS. BUT IF THERE IS A GOD...THE GOD COULD REVEAL ITSELF.

SO WHILE IT MAKES SENSE TO SAY, "THERE IS NO WAY TO KNOW THERE ARE NO GODS"...

...IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE TO SAY, "THERE IS NO WAY TO KNOW THERE IS AT LEAST ONE."

There is no contradiction there, Leadfoot.

So based on this logic (which I agree with), wouldn’t the conclusion at this point be that the more logical direction of open minded inquiry be 'let’s look into the possibility that there is?'

Not saying you haven’t, I’m just curious how you decided there was no possibility of an answer. Even if God did not disclose himself to you at the time, that would not stop an inquiring mind. There must have been more.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY TO KNOW THERE ARE NO GODS. BUT IF THERE IS A GOD...THE GOD COULD REVEAL ITSELF. SO WHILE IT MAKES SENSE TO SAY, "THERE IS NO WAY TO KNOW THERE ARE NO GODS"...

...IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE TO SAY, "THERE IS NO WAY TO KNOW THERE IS AT LEAST ONE."

Indeed. "No explanation" always fails when you're applying Occam's Razor.

2 Replies

Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

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