Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

What was the most interesting learning experience for me was that life forms came about from non-animate objects.

Yeah I'm testy. Life outside of the forum is a little stressful sometimes. The problem is this. When you run the clock and the second law of thermal dynamics backwards eventually you come to a perfect universe. That agrees with the bible and physics but not mainstream cosmology. Science has created a cosmology where the second law of thermodynamics does not flow consistently. (Like when they use gravity to create matter in neutron stars but matter is necessary for gravity to exist.) By ignoring that fact, science created a cosmetology where the second law of thermodynamics does not follow from the beginning to now in a consistant way. They Try to explain that away by saying universe is cyclical and eternal and, maybe matter always existed, or our universe is part of a bigger universe than what we see Where there's enough disorder in the part of the universe we can't see to allow for the order we observe here. but, those are things that we cannot observe or test and must take on faith. And I believe you irreducible complexity rules that out anyway. (And please don't say they've already figured out a way around the irreducible complexity, because they haven't. everything they use requires some sort of complex system created before the irreducible complexity problem came up they are just kicking the can down the road. And besides the structure of space is so complex it can happen spontaneously anyway.)

Biblical scholars on the other hand try to shoehorn a perfect God into the cyclical universe of cosmology, Or come up with some young earth stuff that doesn't fit science at all.

The truth is the universe is millions or billions of years old. Once we get past millions of years our ways of measuring time are questionable but probably not worth arguing about right now. So that throws the young earth IDpeople out right away. But they're the only ones doing any scientific work from the ID side.

A Catholic priest discovered the math that leads to inflation and the big bang. That makes it look like the Catholic Church supports the big bang theory as the initiation of the universe. But what if the big bang is just when the universe started deteriorating? what if it existed before the big bang just more compact and perfect? The Borde Guth Viliken Inflation theory provides math to allow for that. Guth said This allows for the big bang to be a transition to a perfect universe which would then require a quantum creation event to create matter. Guth said he was going to spend the rest of his life proving that option wrong. But that option fits perfectly with the first part of Gen 1 of the biblical story of God creating a perfect universe and some event in Gen 2 messing it up. ( once again, Guth showed a bias against ID).

so how is this transition event covered in the Bible ? How do we get from a universal perfection with eternal existence everywhere in everything to a universe that is dying according to the second law like we observe today? Can we make the biblical narrative of the universe being created through a quantum creation event that results in a perfect universe that isn't dying and then transitioning throuhg a big bang Transition event that leads to a dying universe we observe now? And can we make that biblical narrative match scientific cosmology And observation? ( can we even get a cosmologist or atheist geologist to consider it? )I believe we can but that takes a very good understanding of the Bible and physics and an open mind that can tie these two up to now unrelated fields of study together. Are you open Minded enough to even have the conversation?

I don't think there's too many theologians or physicists that think this is possible or are willing to try. The Catholic hierarchy either doesn't believe in the God of the Bible or are too cowardly to search for him scientifically (I don't think they want to know because, it leaves the door open to their own interpretation). And the Catholic Laymen in the scientific community fear the loss of their job if they take an intelligent design approach.

Hopefully it's not up to me to do the research and write the papers because I kind of suck at writing. But Ideas are pretty clear in my head and my notes. ( wish doesn't do anybody else a whole hell of a lot a good )

Yes, the planet earth is over 4.5 billion years old.

. I read the whole wiki article on AbioGenesis that you suggested as reading . There is no experimental data suggesting that life can spontaneously arise, only speculation. Are you saying that you learned it has been speculated that Lifeforms can come from inanimate objects, with no experimental data to back that up?Or do you have some other information besides your Wikipedia article? Or show me the quote in the article where it says life has been proven to come from in animate object's.

One must rely on more than one source to understand how life began on earth. https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/origsoflife_04

Im all sewn up from a very recent operation so laughter may not be healthy for me right now. Ill write some in the AM, my laparoscopic bullet holes hurt when I laugh.

Should I apologize for hurting you or Say I'm glad I gave you a good laugh

The laugh is better.

The second law of thermodynamics applies to closed systems. This planet is not a closed system--we receive heat from our star, and this drives living systems as well as the climate and the seas and oceans.

Cosmetology is the "discipline" concerned with the care of the hair and skin, and the use of makeup and hair coloring. Perhaps you really, really need to go back to school . . . and pay attention this time.

yes, and the LIVING STATE is not governed by the 2nd law of Thermo
because it is probably the definition of open systems, nd it counters chemical and energy gradients because it embodies nourishment and energy transfer. Life is the great saprophyte, it feeds off itself and upon lower states.
Once life is ended, then all laws of entropy apply.

The nifty thing is that life copies its own structure of being only while it is alive.

After rejecting human exceptionalism it is then necessary to reject life as exceptional.

Interesting thing is the order that they came in.

splain??

Theres hardly enough data to state that life is exceptional in the cosmos. If it is, itll be up to us to try to fond out why. If it isnt, is anyone surprised?

Cut me some slack my voice recognition on my phone changed cosmology to cosmetology

There are no truly closed systems In the universe. The higgs field is everywhere and exchanges Energy with all matter at all times in the form of gravity, the electromagnetic field, and by giving matter mass in the strong force. It takes a hell of a lot order for the Higgsfield to do this. It takes information to create order and it takes intelligence to create information.

There are a bunch of systems in this universe exchanging energy. The key point is there are systems inside of systems inside of systems exchanging energy. As some of the systems exchange energy they appear to be creating order. But in reality they are just systems doing the job they were created to do. The reason they look like a system that was created to do something is because they are a system that was created to do something. Why is it so hard to believe what you're looking at? Or at least admit that what I see maybe different than you but just as legitimate.

True, we do not have evidence that ET life does not exist (you wouldn't ask me to prove a negative, right?).

But you don't have to believe life is exceptional (or not) in the universe to see how unlikely it is even here, even where conditions appear to be as good as any natural, spontaneous, just by chance process could possibly make it.

Because of that, I (at least) would be surprised if biological life here wasn't unique.
But I wouldn't deny it if turns up somewhere else. Nothing says the same intelligence that started it here wouldn't do it elsewhere. It's just gut feeling that it didn't. Maybe not a lot different than those whose gut tells them the opposite I guess.

But there may be another motive on their part though. If you insist that humans are not really exceptional and just more intelligent animals, then it becomes necessary to say that life itself is just a cosmic crap shoot with no purpose. Else all kind of moral problems ensue - giving up bacon, then dairy, then - OMG! that means plants are our ancestors and 'brothers' too.

Hope you don't mind taking thought experiments to the logical extreme.

not really "experiments" They are ponderings without any tracks of evidence.
Your argument about the exceptionalism of the various kingdoms of life seem to be dwelling around how amazed we should be that its happened at all.
BUT IT HASS!! see?
So we try to understand with evidence and repeatable experimentation.
As far as plants and animals and archea, we seem to share decreasing
percentages of genetic material as the ladder of life ascends. There doesnt seem to be any major differences in how expressions of genes are "squozen" out. Phillips T. 2008, Nature Education, 1(1):116

"Exceptionalism" is a term that is conferred by the species that's able to conceive of what the term means. On another planet, maybe three headed spiders are "exceptional"

When life is based on a single chemistry , as it is on earth, maybe we need to search for significant variants of that model to claim exceptionalism of any of the forms we may encounter. When we leave earth, the model may be changed entirely.

You are as full of poop as a Nebraska feed lot. You just make the sh*t up as you go along. Tell me about the implications for cosmetology again, that is much more entertaining. Your other tripe is completely evidence and science free.

Oh man! Am I with you on that!

there are six elements key to life on earth. If one of the six i changed out, I would call that a different chemistry base.
Several years ago NASA discovered extremophilic archaea, where the element Phosphorus had been substituted by ARsenic, thus being the only example of As life chemistry. Most of these archaea were fond in deep ocean ridge fumaroles and "black smokers"

Its being worked out as we talk