Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

A lot of this crap comes from begging questions. Van Daniken, referring to the gigantic carvings on the plain of Nazca in Peru, asks with a rhetorical implication, how such carvings would have been laid out if not supervised by someone flying overhead. People unaccustomed to critical thinking probably lap that kind of thing up--certainly van Daniken made a good living out of the rubes. Can you imagine the massive cluster-f*ck you'd have trying to lay out giant carvings like that with supervision from helicopers flying overhead? Of course, it's all predicated on the assumption that our ancient ancestors weren't too damned bright. The answer to the question which van Daniken is trying to beg that they were laid out with grid transfer.

http://www.draw-n-paint.com/Grids/Rose-Pinkish/Rose-Pinkish-Preview-200.gif

Thanks to the Egyptians, we know that mankind has used the technique for several thousand years.

The stealth creationist phonies of the ID crowd use the same question begging technique. They will apply it to abiogenesis (a tautological term) and "irreducible complexity." If you answer the question plausibly, they will either challenge the plausibility, or, as you have said, they'll change the subject.

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@blatham,

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But this isn't the history of a "religious movement". It's the history, in the US, of the concept of intelligent design. And that history involves, top to bottom, religious voices trying to wage a campaign to rid the nation of nasty Darwinism.

Well, at least your first post to this 'sub-thread' indicated you wouldn't throw every ID advocate into the same pot but it appears you have re-considered. Or perhaps peer pressure is involved..

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But let's presume you are unaffected by this literature. Tell me where you first bumped into the theory of intelligent design and what information sources you found convincing.

As I told farmer, I have used 'ID' only for the sake of this conversation, I didn't name the thread nor am I married to the term 'intelligent design'. I'd be happy to call it anything that reflected the underlying idea that the origin of life is not adequately explained by natural forces as we currently understand them.

The answer to your question about when I was first exposed is also related to the true origin of ID. I think I was age 7 when I first thought about it (61 years ago) and had no exposure to religion or science other than incidental overhearing others talking. (family was not religious). I, like countless others throughout recorded history, looked around and thought - 'Where the heck did everything come from'. (and similar questions).

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@cicerone imposter,

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What hitler did has nothing to do with ID.

This is a test:

If I had used the ANALOGY of- 'A terrorist using a car to mow down innocent people does not invalidate the use of automobiles', would you have responded that cars have nothing to do with ID?

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@Leadfoot,

I would because its a forced analogy that makes absolutely NO logical point.

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@Leadfoot,

Quote:

I, like countless others throughout recorded history, looked around and thought - 'Where the heck did everything come from'. (and similar questions).

Like my analogy re: the "ancient aliens" dudes , who arent interested in looking at the counter evidence that refutes their "storyboards", the ID crowd seems to be in the same boat. You dont "look very hard at the evidence". You seem to make broad statements without much scientific investment .
If wed argue face to face , Id throw tons of evidence at you that youd not have the benefit of a Google search with which to later "bone up"

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@farmerman,

Quote:

Like my analogy re: the "ancient aliens" dudes , who arent interested in looking at the counter evidence that refutes their "storyboards", the ID crowd seems to be in the same boat.

Now THERE is a forced and false analogy. Have you ever tried to discuss the 'ancient aliens' thing with a 'true believer'? I have, and it goes nothing like the dialog going on here.

BTW, I could make the same charge of 'not being interested in looking at counter evidence' against you. You either ignore it or give an only slightly more sophisticated version of Set's 'Don't pedal your BS here'. Never have you given a direct reply to the issues raised in my arguments.

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@farmerman,

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I would because its a forced analogy that makes absolutely NO logical point.

Then you failed the test too. Or should I say - again.

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@Leadfoot,

maybe by your rules, but I havent been impressed with your self-stated knowledge about evolution or genetics.

"Failing" one of your tests is OK by me, I try not to use forced analogies. And youve entered into GODWIN'S LAW territory. Im not gonna be the one who reminds you of that. The hell Im not.

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@farmerman,

Here we can all have a little laugh . REDUCTIO ad HITLERUM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum

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@farmerman,

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I havent been impressed with your self-stated knowledge about evolution or genetics.

Next you'll be accusing me of using Parados's 'Creationist Math'. That was my all time favorite fail and dodge.

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@Leadfoot,

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had no exposure to religion or science other than incidental overhearing others talking. (family was not religious). I, like countless others throughout recorded history, looked around and thought - 'Where the heck did everything come from'. (and similar questions).

You definitely had exposure to religious notions because our culture swims in them. I'll presume you were familiar with the words "god" and "jesus" and "sin" (unless you grew up in a cave).

Certainly, humans have long had curiosity as to causes for existence of self and the universe around. Religious ideas, some of them, are clearly attempts to make sense of that, to provide some explanation, to make a story that gives what, at the time, seemed a plausible accounting. The Bible is, in part, that. Many such stories read like Ovid's Metamophoses, which ought not to surprise because he was working with ancient Latin myth stories. Need a
beautiful explanation for sap dripping down the side of trees? He's got one.

But you're not 7 any longer. You don't have to succumb to a preference for a beautiful universe and a charming story. Or, alternately, stick with that. But if you do, label yourself a poet and your idea as a poetic take on this question. You'd get no protest if so.

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@blatham,

poetry sucks a big one.

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@farmerman,

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And youve entered into GODWIN'S LAW territory. Im not gonna be the one who reminds you of that. The hell Im not.

Fail again farmer. But this is pure irony.

I was not comparing my opponent (you or CI) to Hitler, as anyone capable of parsing an English language sentence could tell.

It is you who keep trying to smear me with your version of Hitler (fundamental religion pushers).

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@blatham,

Quote:

But you're not 7 any longer. You don't have to succumb to a preference for a beautiful universe and a charming story. Or, alternately, stick with that. But if you do, label yourself a poet and your idea as a poetic take on this question.

I'm not 7 and I haven't given you any kid's bible story explanations nor quoted scripture as 'proof' of my arguments.

You asked when I was first exposed to the concept of ID and I answered you. If all you can do is make assumptions about my early life I won't bother doing that again.

But I do think it is amazing that you think exposure to merely overhearing the word 'God' or 'Jesus' without any church or other religious influence could have such a profound effect upon a person. Perhaps it is YOU who truly believes in the power of "God" :-)

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

Next you'll be accusing me of using Parados's 'Creationist Math'. That was my all time favorite fail and dodge.

God forbid you admit that your use of math was specious.

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@farmerman,

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poetry sucks a big one.

the lungs shiver against
your cold
heart

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@Leadfoot,

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But I do think it is amazing that you think exposure to merely overhearing the word 'God' or 'Jesus' without any church or other religious influence could have such a profound effect upon a person. Perhaps it is YOU who truly believes in the power of "God" :-)

But I didn't say that. Was merely pointing out that your earlier statement of "no contact with religious notions" could not possibly be the case. And one doesn't just overhear such words as if they arrived as mere vibrations on the ear drum and without any meaning or context whatsoever.

In any case, I peeked in on this thread out of boredom and will depart out of boredom, evolutionless.

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@blatham,

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But I didn't say that. Was merely pointing out that your earlier statement of "no contact with religious notions" could not possibly be the case.

So you are just calling me a liar then. For the record, I said:

Quote:

I had no exposure to religion or science other than incidental overhearing others talking. (family was not religious).

And that's what I meant. You are free to believe me or not as you wish.

Sorry about your boredom. Bye...

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You're wasting your time with Godwin here. He's never wrong (just ask him!) and when he can't maintain his position, he just moves the goal posts or attempts to change the subject. He has no rhetorical skills and he has already admitted that he is not a proponent of "intelligent design" and doesn't really want to discuss the distinction between science and religion.

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@Setanta,

I thought it cute that he was blaming me for the reference when all I did was remind him that he was getting into Godwins territory. Youre right in that he never remains at his debate post for too long.

However, I must always remember to respect my elders.

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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

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