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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
parados
 
  3  
Mon 17 Aug, 2015 07:44 am
@Leadfoot,
Did you include the entire software for the washing machine in the automotive engine controller? It seems you missed the most important part of FMs explanation. A good designer doesn't include bloatware in his design but that is what we see constantly in DNA. Large sections of DNA left over from ancestors that no longer function.
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Mon 17 Aug, 2015 08:05 am
@parados,
My God! Your knowledge of genetics is pathetically out of date. Look up epigenetics. 'Junk DNA' was just another Neo Evolutionist embarrassment. They tried to use that as evolution evidence but it has backfired on them.
FBM
 
  1  
Mon 17 Aug, 2015 08:12 am
@Leadfoot,
Your red herring ploy seems to work on some. Not all. Ready to show any of that credible evidence for your god that you said you had? So far you've offered up nothing but fallacies and ignorance. Man up. Show us what you got, homie. Empty rhetoric =/= credible evidence.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Mon 17 Aug, 2015 08:21 am
@Leadfoot,
No, you are incorrect. epigenetics is NOT the junk DNA that was referred to. Junk DNA is actually ON the chromosomes and is retained from generation to generation of species.


If your evidence-free assertions would be correct,a modern car engine would have to retain a distributor (as well as a modern electronic ignition) and carburator (along with EFI) and a generator(along with an alternator). Thats the way the genome operates.



0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Mon 17 Aug, 2015 08:23 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
Junk DNA' was just another Neo Evolutionist embarrassment. They tried to use that as evolution evidence but it has backfired on them.
wrong again you are.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Mon 17 Aug, 2015 08:41 am
@farmerman,
Apparently your knowledge is as out of date as peridos'.
Evolutionists started out by claiming that much of DNA was "Junk" because it didn't code for proteins. They said it was unused and evidence that it was a result of unguided evolution because a designer wouldn't include it.

The current research is finding more and more functions for it all the time. And it's early yet.

Your comments about software design are just more evidence of your lack of computer science chops. You wanna talk cars? This is getting old :-)
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Mon 17 Aug, 2015 08:45 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
wrong again you are.


Very persuasive!
But come on, that's an FBM type reply.
You're better than that...
farmerman
 
  3  
Mon 17 Aug, 2015 09:08 am
@Leadfoot,
You havent really added anything besides bumper stickers of words of which Im really not convinced you have a passing knowledge.
I have a minute. Lemme hear what you think epigenetics is saying that refuted evolution .

Leadfoot
 
  1  
Mon 17 Aug, 2015 09:18 am
@farmerman,
Maybe later. The weather is good, looks like a flying day. I'll let you know if I reach out and touch the face of God.
parados
 
  2  
Mon 17 Aug, 2015 10:22 am
@Leadfoot,
Including all the DNA from ancestors doesn't mean it is junk. However it does mean it is all included. Now you are claiming that unneeded DNA was simply deleted and is no longer there. Perhaps you are the one that needs to look up epigenetics.

Under your scenario of code for a washing machine and an automotive engine controller, you should have included all the software for the washing machine just in case someone put a load of clothes and some laundry detergent in the car. That is the difference between deleting the code and just having it all there to be turned on under certain conditions.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  2  
Mon 17 Aug, 2015 06:01 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
wrong again you are.


Very persuasive!
But come on, that's an FBM type reply.
You're better than that...


Correction: My type of reply is to ask you for the credible evidence that you claimed to have. Everything you've tried to foist off on us has been shot down quite handily. Can you do better? Where's this god of yours?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Tue 18 Aug, 2015 05:11 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:

Maybe later. The weather is good, looks like a flying day. I'll let you know if I reach out and touch the face of God.
Smoking some good **** are you?
hingehead
 
  2  
Tue 18 Aug, 2015 06:52 am
@farmerman,
It's only good because it was designed that way.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 18 Aug, 2015 07:01 am
@farmerman,
Quote:

Quote:
"Maybe later. The weather is good, looks like a flying day. I'll let you know if I reach out and touch the face of God."

Smoking some good **** are you?


Today maybe (ain't Colorado great!) but yesterday all I smoked were loops, barrel rolls, Immelmann's and about 20 gallons of 100LL avgas.

I'd get into epigenetics today but GF is dragging me to Lowes to buy ****. The other kind of ****.
farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 18 Aug, 2015 04:12 pm
@Leadfoot,
naah, Im a seadog, planes are too much like work..
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 18 Aug, 2015 05:33 pm
@farmerman,
Genetics - Epigenetics.

A quick overview of Epigenetics & "Junk DNA"

The two terms are not identical but both are related to mechanisms in the chromosome that regulate the expression of DNA protein codes.

The protein coding portion of DNA is only about 2 - 3 % of the content, the rest was declared "Junk" until relatively recently. Darwinists tried to use it as evidence that there is no design, just unused stuff which you would expect to be passed on from unguided evolution. The real answer is more mind bogglingly complex than anyone guessed. And we have just scratched the surface of this new field.

If you are familiar with computer science, you can think of the Protein coding portion as the machine language of the cell. The "Junk" is actually the higher level language ( think C or Fortran) that invokes the lower level language instructions.

I don't expect this will convince anyone of ID but it is just one more level of complexity that makes pure chance/natural selection evolution hard (for me at least) to accept as the only architect of life's design.

From Discover Magazine article ( NOT Discovery Institute)

Our DNA—specifically the 25,000 genes identified by the Human Genome Project—is now widely regarded as the instruction book for the human body. But genes themselves need instructions for what to do, and where and when to do it. A human liver cell contains the same DNA as a brain cell, yet somehow it knows to code only those proteins needed for the functioning of the liver. Those instructions are found not in the letters of the DNA itself but on it, in an array of chemical markers and switches, known collectively as the epigenome, that lie along the length of the double helix. These epigenetic switches and markers in turn help switch on or off the expression of particular genes. Think of the epigenome as a complex software code, capable of inducing the DNA hardware to manufacture an impressive variety of proteins, cell types, and individuals.

From Scientific American article
WHO
Ewan Birney

VOCATION | AVOCATION
“Cat herder in chief” of the ENCODE consortium of 400 geneticists from around the world

WHERE
European Bioinformatics Institute, Cambridge, England

RESEARCH FOCUS
Creating an encyclopedia detailing what the most mysterious parts of the human genome do

BIG PICTURE
“I get this strong feeling that previously I was ignorant of my own ignorance, and now I understand my ignorance.”

In the 1970s, when biologists first glimpsed the landscape of human genes, they saw that the small pieces of DNA that coded for proteins (known as exons) seemed to float like bits of wood in a sea of genetic gibberish. What on earth were those billions of other letters of DNA there for? No less a molecular luminary than Francis Crick, co-discoverer of DNA’s double-helical structure, suspected it was “little better than junk.”

The phrase “junk DNA” has haunted human genetics ever since. In 2000, when scientists of the Human Genome Project presented the first rough draft of the sequence of bases, or code letters, in human DNA, the initial results appeared to confirm that the vast majority of the sequence—perhaps 97 percent of its 3.2 billion bases—had no apparent function. The “Book of Life,” in other words, looked like a heavily padded text.

Now, in a series of papers published in September in Nature (Scientific American is part of Nature Publishing Group) and elsewhere, the ENCODE group has produced a stunning inventory of previously hidden switches, signals and sign posts embedded like runes throughout the entire length of human DNA. In the process, the ENCODE project is reinventing the vocabulary with which biologists study, discuss and understand human inheritance and disease.

PS: You really think boats are less work than aircraft?
farmerman
 
  3  
Tue 18 Aug, 2015 06:36 pm
@Leadfoot,
Why are you sending me your Wikepedia links. Im probabl;y a degree or two closer to the subject than you.
You criticized parados and he was right.

You need to go dee[er into understanding the very biochemistry. Read about precursors to DNA polymerase, The subject has alinkage with "Deoxynucleotides"
Read about em youll be surprised that the more we seem to know about the bonding, linkages, and actual formation of these families of molecules the more that "design " seems mere religious dogma. What you seem to say about evolution is that scienntists are convinced that ID is valid. Thats BS, while there are many evo-devo scientists who are religious, there are many more who are not.AND findings in the theoiry of evolution have no berings upon their beliefs. If you read someone like Ken Miller, his god is transcendent not a "meddling " dude who interferes with with ribosomes, nucleotides, the Cromwell current, el Nino, continental drift or glacial epochs.

No matter where you begin in some discussions re: ID, you always have to wind up dropping back to a lower order of "causality" , such as formation of " GACT" triphosphates, or "behes "Irreducibly complex" cascade of blood clotting" or How the Galapogos finches developed on the volcanic ridge of an island arc that , as a midocean "Hot SPot", carried away the "founder population" of tortoises and unique species that blindly and happily adapted to a changing midoceanic desert environment that has given rise to a whole new clutch of unique yet related species to the "founders"

Was a god involved in creating the geologic Hotspot thatwas behind all the DNA differences between the mainland and the Galapogos species?

Or did he just quit after he did that 6 day thing?
.

Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 18 Aug, 2015 06:45 pm
@farmerman,
Ummmm... You didn't even bother to even notice where that info was from (it wasn't Wikipedia) much less respond to it so I'm sure you didn't bother to read it.

Anyone who thinks boats are less work than airplanes just isn't in touch with reality anyway.

Bon Voyage !
parados
 
  1  
Wed 19 Aug, 2015 07:41 am
@Leadfoot,
When was that written? 1983? Who under 50 even knows what Fortran is?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Fri 21 Aug, 2015 11:11 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:

Anyone who thinks boats are less work than airplanes just isn't in touch with reality anyway


You misread my post. AIRPLANES -to me, represent a way for me to get to my work sites in the field. Someone else pilots and I just sit there either bored or terrified.
however, I AM the sailor, boats represent awayness for me, (nothing to do with degree of difficulty ). Anyway, COLO has a paucity of beaches (other than fossil ones),I once lived in Canyon City for a while, it was ok but no oceans to speak of.


 

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