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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 7 Jun, 2012 07:43 pm
@rosborne979,
Id let them go on this becasuse they are ot able to deny the evidence , predictions, and all the surrrounding data that make up the theory.
You are correct that, as teachers, they should already be taking care oif what the Disco Institute is seemingly asking for. SO, its merely a m,atter of pointing out to Discos that "we concur" ad heres what weve already been doing thank youse.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Thu 7 Jun, 2012 07:48 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Id let them go on this becasuse they are ot able to deny the evidence , predictions, and all the surrrounding data that make up the theory.
You are correct that, as teachers, they should already be taking care oif what the Disco Institute is seemingly asking for. SO, its merely a m,atter of pointing out to Discos that "we concur" ad heres what weve already been doing thank youse.

The danger to their statement is that they are trying to establish credibility for themselves by "seeming" to support established science, while at the same time corrupting the underlying foundation of science by implying that the process (and selected theories) have flaws which they don't.

Letting the fox into the hen house isn't likely to turn out well, even if the fox claims it's a vegetarian.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 7 Jun, 2012 07:52 pm
@rosborne979,
Can you imagine someone that must tangle their brains into a pretzel in order to compose their challenges against science? It must take a lot of effort.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Thu 7 Jun, 2012 07:53 pm
I don't want adults telling kids science isn't true. Between the textbooks and the IDers, poor little sprats won't know what to believe.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 7 Jun, 2012 08:24 pm
@edgarblythe,
That's precisely the reason they're putting so much effort into their ID meme.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 7 Jun, 2012 09:59 pm
@rosborne979,
Quote:
Letting the fox into the hen house isn't likely to turn out well, even if the fox claims it's a vegetarian


What, you afraid of a little challenge?? If you think teachers are "hens" and thye IDers are "foxes", they havewon cause youre caving.

I would welcome the opportunity to present the normal science case (flaws and all) and if and when critique comes forth from some "prepared ID resources", handle it by requesting their bases in evidence and fact and remind em of the rulings from Edwards v Aguillard.

Teachers have to be better prepared anyway. NSF science programs have been semi denutted in recent decades
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 8 Jun, 2012 03:21 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Between the textbooks and the IDers, poor little sprats won't know what to believe.


How patronising. 50 million American kids are all agog waiting for edgar blythe to set their teachers straight.

He doesn't want adults telling kids science isn't true. Aaaaaah!!!

He should tell them that all adults are wankers then. A squirming mass of organisms with a hole at each end and gonads so they can replicate their silly ******* selves.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 8 Jun, 2012 03:36 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Driving narrative that has become familiar to those of us with educations above the third grade.


The mode of expression of the last few posts on here represents illiterate mentalities. Any intelligence test which produced a figure outside the 95-105 range for any one of them is seriously flawed.

Quote:
Gee, now youre picking one of your idiotic fights with those youve championed. (The IDers).


Show me where I have championed the Discovery Institute. I accused it of being a Aunt Sally for atheists to knock over at Dover.

You once got on to my general position and I confirmed it for you in writing and you were too scared to follow up on it. The limits of your science are the fences around your comfort zone.

0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 8 Jun, 2012 03:58 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Spendi had been bragging that, if left to him, he would have won the Dover case for the IDers.


That is incorrect. I would have got the case called off by explaining one or two of the "controversial issues" the Senator from Texas mentioned in a quote of wande's. In chambers of course.

Quote:
It is an illusion to claim moral neutrality in scientific research and its applications.


Catechism of the Catholic Church. (2294).
farmerman
 
  1  
Fri 8 Jun, 2012 04:40 am
@spendius,
Quote:
That is incorrect. I would have got the case called off by explaining one or two of the "controversial issues" the Senator from Texas mentioned in a quote of wande's. In chambers of course.


That would have been a "win" for the DOver Schools because they, having shown no good defense in pre trial, were unable to budge the judge even though there were several "Summary judgement" requests asking for exactly what you think you would have been successful at accompilshing.

Its an old and tired trick usually done by amateurs and the timorous. The really good attorneys did as the ACLU did, force your case and forcing settlement (although Dover was addled enough to allow this to go to trial).

The ultimate decision was as predictable as picking Devonian terrains in the stratigraphic record.

I daresay that you would have been entertaining for the three or so days it would take to clean your clock.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 8 Jun, 2012 05:39 am
@rosborne979,
Quote:
It's interesting how they've tried to sneak onto the high ground when we all know they will eventually try to drag everyone off the cliff.


What utterly ridiculous English that is.

What age range is 3rd grade fm? Two?

Quote:
all scientific theories are already open to critical scrutiny and none are treated as sacred dogma.


The ones treated as sacred dogma are those which are not open to critical scrutiny because they are unmentionable in polite company such as a courtroom under the guidance of Judge Jones. The "controversial issues" so to speak. Comparisons between a flagella and a foot pump are okay.

Quote:
Also, students are not required to "believe" anything, they are merely required to "understand" it.


Perhaps ros will explain the whence, the why and the how of life on earth rather than the what, the where and the when of it so that we may all understand our origins and our daily doings a little better.

spendius
 
  1  
Fri 8 Jun, 2012 07:26 am
@spendius,
Quote:
The wonderful age in which we live--this twentieth century with its
X-rays that enable us to see through the skin and flesh of men, and to
study the working of their organs and muscles and nerves--has brought a
new spirit into the world, a spirit of fidelity to fact, and with it a
new and higher ideal of life and of art, which must of necessity change
and transform all the conditions of existence, and in time modify the
almost immutable nature of man. For this new spirit, this love of the
fact and of truth, this passion for reality will do away with the
foolish fears and futile hopes which have fretted the childhood of our
race, and will slowly but surely establish on broad foundations the
Kingdom of Man upon Earth. For that is the meaning and purpose of the
change which is now coming over the world. The faiths and convictions of
twenty centuries are passing away and the forms and institutions of a
hundred generations of men are dissolving before us like the baseless
fabric of a dream. A new morality is already shaping itself in the
spirit; a morality based not on guess-work and on fancies; but on
ascertained laws of moral health; a scientific morality belonging not to
statics, like the morality of the Jews, but to dynamics, and so fitting
the nature of each individual person. Even now conscience with its
prohibitions is fading out of life, evolving into a more profound
consciousness of ourselves and others, with multiplied incitements to
wise giving. The old religious asceticism with its hatred of the body is
dead; the servile acceptance of conditions of life and even of natural
laws is seen to be vicious; it is of the nobility of man to be insatiate
in desire and to rebel against limiting conditions; it is the property
of his intelligence to constrain even the laws of nature to the
attainment of his ideal.


Frank Harris: The Man Shakespeare.

To get some idea of what Mr Harris, the inventor of tabloid journalism, meant by "...it is of the nobility of man to be insatiate
in desire and to rebel against limiting conditions", his autobiography, My Life and Loves, is as good a guide as any apart from one's own sense of these things as a virile young man who gets about a fair bit and who enjoys reading an account, mostly unverified, of a life dedicated to the above tasks and providing ample justification for doing so.

The book penetrated the USA through the cracks and doors left slightly ajar. By the time it was okay to read it everybody who mattered had read it.

Whatever ID looks like it basically represents the "limiting conditions" which, in a proper theological organisation and operation, are not fixed but simply need careful consideration before the aspiring upstart ideas-men beating on the doors are let loose on the great unwashed and prematurely ejaculating like the garden hose when you turn the tap on and before you get to the business end its wapping back and forth in a pattern which science has not got to the bottom of yet and you get a soaking.

(That was a pretty good metaphor even if I say so myself.)

Joe Nation
 
  2  
Fri 8 Jun, 2012 08:42 am
Spendius:
Since you asked:
~ a short list of similarities~
~ between yourself & the Taliban~

You and they hold with the following:
1. A belief in a single god.
2. A belief that this god has communicated with mankind with the written word.
3. That this written word can be copied and distributed to others over centuries of time without error.
4. That within this errorless work are certain rules, compunctions and commands which must be followed faithfully.
5. That the singular god guides every moment of your life and being and provides you protections from evil and the dangers of Nature.
6. That should such protection be withdrawn and you are subjected to the ravages of the world, the fault lies not with the singular god but in yourself for not fully following the previously mentioned commands and rituals.
7. That not only the spiritual life of the individual ought be driven by the god's words but also the public political life of all citizens of civilization.
8. That, from the words of the god, we know certain things:
that the male is superior to the female,
that all females should be subservient to any and all males in all aspects of their lives,
that only males are worthy and capable of education,
that certain foods should not ever be consumed or touched even to the point of starvation,
9. That the true danger to civilization lies in efforts of some to seek modernity and to rely on Science to provide answers rather than basking in the contentment of knowing that only the singular god knows and that he provides us with mysteries in order to create our sense of awe.
10. That the only means of preserving our relationship with the singular god and the health of our communities is strict adherence to the laws set down by the singular god.
11. That evolution is a fiction told by non-believers to undermine the power and glory of the singular god. (Moderate Islam disagrees)
12. That there is no such thing as a Natural sense of morality, that all moral behavior must spring from the written word of the god.
13. That there is a Heaven.
14. That there is a Hell.
15. (I only put this is for fun) That no man, having reached his fifteenth year, shall shave the hair on his face.

There you have it. Please deny the ones to which you do not adhere. I think you will still have enough left to become a full member of the Taliban.

Joe( I'm going to ask them to send you an invitation.)Nation

spendius
 
  0  
Fri 8 Jun, 2012 11:15 am
@Joe Nation,
1. Wrong
2. Wrong
3. Of course it can.
4. Wrong
5. Wrong
6. Wrong
7. Wrong
8. Wrong
9. Wrong
10. Wrong
11. Not always.
12. Wrong
13. True--I've been there.
14. True--I've seen it. I got away with a bit of purgatory.
15. Wrong

You have got a type of brain fever Joe that I haven't come across before. It must be the jogging knocking the pods of your noddle clots as you slog along.

"Where's my serpent of old Nile?"
For so he calls me. Now I feel myself
With most delicious poison.

Shakespeare has Cleopatra say. If you knew what that meant No 8 would never have entered your misogynistic head. Trying to get your card marked with women using such a crude trick only plays with those who don't know what "most delicious" means due to never having felt themselves.

Don't apply to be a theologian. Put Sir Cliff's Living Doll on and listen to it.

spendius
 
  0  
Fri 8 Jun, 2012 11:23 am
@spendius,
The problem with our coy little anti-IDers is that they do not have Frank Harris's honesty to come out and add----"which must of necessity change
and transform all the conditions of existence".

One has to wonder what an educated man like Judge Jones was up to. As he was an Assistant Scoutmaster one might hazard a guess.

0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Fri 8 Jun, 2012 11:29 am
@spendius,
Quote:
2. A belief that this god has communicated with mankind with the written word.
3. That this written word can be copied and distributed to others over centuries of time without error.

Quote:
2. Wrong
3. Of course it can.


I'm just curious how something that doesn't exist can be copied and distributed without error. Surely you didn't mean to contradict your earlier statements Spendi.
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 8 Jun, 2012 11:32 am
@parados,
There's no contradiction. You just want there to be one too much.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Fri 8 Jun, 2012 11:57 am
@spendius,
Well, I am really disappointed. This is the most dishonest post/answer, Spendius, you have ever placed on these pages.

Joe(You had your chance to proclaim your fundamentalism and now it's gone.)Nation

PS: I do appreciate you being so brief in your answers, I would have hated having to go through a bunch of mewly "but its,"" but onlys. "

PSS Thanks for revealing that you have just been having us on about the male's superiority over the years. I never believed you myself but now everyone knows you stand for sexual equality. Bravo.
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 8 Jun, 2012 01:29 pm
@Joe Nation,
I do not stand for sexual equality at all. It's an insult to women.

First you have a Taliban fever and now your on an androgyny one. Which male film star do you fancy most?

You are even reduced to blurting out charges of dishonesty to cover your rear,

You're the liars. Pretending that a spirit of fidelity to fact and the love of the
fact and of truth (your facts and your truths of course) does not entail the necessity of the change and transformation of all the conditions of existence. And there it was written that it does by Mr Frank Harris his very self nearly 100 years ago. And side-stepped by you in the usual timid fashion of the threads anti-IDers. And it was nowhere near an original idea.



spendius
 
  1  
Fri 15 Jun, 2012 07:13 am
@spendius,
An excellent method of understanding Intelligent Design is to read Homer whilst watching the US Open golf on a HD 47" TV screen.

Looking at fossils and X-rays of patients is bound to lead up the garden path. The total emphasis on physiology and the ignoring of the psychology is inhuman. It represents a proud parade of animality which Orwell took the piss out of in Animal Farm.

And the very paraders call troughing sheds restaurants and the nutrient bed the menu.
0 Replies
 
 

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