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Filibustering let loose

 
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 02:08 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Judicial Confirmation Statistics

This clearly shows many of the "facts" liberals have been using about judicial nominations are clearly false.

Please read through this and ask yourself why this has come to a head as it has.


The most GLARING problem with these statistics is they only go through Dec 9th 2003. You can't really compare the figures from the last congress, the 108th, to anything else since the congress was only half over when these stats were published. Since that time, the majority of those nominated have been confirmed.

One other little problem with these statistics is they only consider the Circuit court and not the District court. Go look at the source used to produce these numbers. Lots of interesting ways to spin it to show that Clinton had fewer nominations confirmed. Then check out those that actually got hearings.

As for your claim of more than 10 McG. You miss the facts there too. If a judge is nominated in one congress session, not acted on but then confirmed the next session, your figures record him as not confirmed but he still sits on the bench. So it is only a question of semantics. I would consider him confirmed.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 02:13 pm
The thing I find most telling in the source for McG's numbers is the response to judge nominations being voted against in committee. Prior to Bush every judge that had a vote that went against them in committee had the nomination withdrawn. (2 had tie votes that were later revoted or went to floor and confirmed.)

If we want to talk about precedent here. It appears Bush is the one going against every prior President, who had sense enough to withdraw nominations when opposed to the point that the committee voted against them.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 02:24 pm
For a list of all the judge's confirmed during the 108th Congress, this is the list. Notice almost all of them were confirmed. Your argument is getting weaker McG based on present facts.

http://www.usdoj.gov/olp/judicialnominations108.htm

According to this list I roughly count only 21 Bush nominations that haven't been confirmed yet. (some of those on the list were nominated in 2001) I count 14 that have had hearings but not confirmed. Some had their hearings only recently.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 02:45 pm
As of today, there are only 20 judicial nominations pending in the Senate.

http://www.usdoj.gov/olp/judicialnominations.htm
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 03:32 pm
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0504/S00276.htm

"The Senate has confirmed 205 or over 95 percent of President Bush's nominees," Gore pointed out. "Democrats have held up only 10 nominees, less than 5 percent. Compare that with the 60 Clinton nominees who were blocked by Republican obstruction between 1995 and 2000....

"[W]hen President Clinton left office, there were more than 100 vacant judgeships, largely due to Republican obstructionist tactics. Ironically, near the end of the Clinton/Gore administration, the Republican chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee said: 'There is no vacancy crisis and a little perspective clearly belies the assertion that 103 vacancies represent a systemic crisis.'

"Comically, soon after President Bush took office, when the number of vacancies had already been reduced, the same Republican committee chairman sounded a shrill alarm. Because of the outstanding vacancies, he said, 'We're reaching a crisis in our federal courts.'

"Now the number of vacancies is lower than it has been in many years: 47 vacancies out of 877 judgeships - and for the majority of those vacancies, the President has not even sent a nominee to the Senate."
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 03:44 pm
Good work, parados.
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chris56789
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 05:43 pm
Filibustering has been around for a long time. Republicans could use it during Clinton's 8 years and even Jimmy Carter's time, now all of a sudden, they want to change it?? BS!!!

That's like at halftime, my team is winning by 6 pts in basketball, but I am not satisfied, I expected to win by 27 pts, so I change the rules to fit my basketball player's strengths.

It's not fair. Keep the rules the same for both sides. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 06:36 am
chris56789 wrote:
Filibustering has been around for a long time. Republicans could use it during Clinton's 8 years and even Jimmy Carter's time, now all of a sudden, they want to change it?? BS!!!

That's like at halftime, my team is winning by 6 pts in basketball, but I am not satisfied, I expected to win by 27 pts, so I change the rules to fit my basketball player's strengths.

It's not fair. Keep the rules the same for both sides. Very Happy


The Repubs did NOT filibuster ANY of either Carter's or Clintons nominees once they came out of committee.
They DID however,block them from coming out of committee.
There is a difference.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 07:32 am
Majority vs Minority
mysteryman wrote:
chris56789 wrote:
Filibustering has been around for a long time. Republicans could use it during Clinton's 8 years and even Jimmy Carter's time, now all of a sudden, they want to change it?? BS!!!

That's like at halftime, my team is winning by 6 pts in basketball, but I am not satisfied, I expected to win by 27 pts, so I change the rules to fit my basketball player's strengths.

It's not fair. Keep the rules the same for both sides. Very Happy


The Repubs did NOT filibuster ANY of either Carter's or Clintons nominees once they came out of committee.
They DID however,block them from coming out of committee.
There is a difference.


Yes, but the difference is in semantics only. The Republicans held the majority when Clinton was President, so used a majority tactic. The Democrats are in the minority now and use a minority tactic. Added to that, the canidates being held up now are really not qualified to do the jobs they hold now, much less an appellate job. Clinton generally nominated respectable canidates since he faced a Senate in opposition. They still couldn't get votes.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 07:44 am
One of the people you claim is not qualified,was a justice on the CA Supreme Court.
So,how does that mean she isnt qualified?
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 08:19 am
Ms. Brown is Certainly the least qualified
Ms. Brown is probably the least qualified of the nominations on the table. I remember during her first confirmation hearings hearing her response to questions from the Senators. It seemed she didn't even understand the legal issues being discussed. I posted some interesting stuff a few pages back, but here is an interesting and fully documented link. Among the more interesting lines:

Quote:
Justice Brown was twice rated not qualified by the California Judicial Nominations Evaluation (JNE) Commission, first in 1993, when then-Governor Wilson submitted her name as one of six potential nominees to the state supreme court and again in 1996 when Wilson, who had appointed her in the interim to a seat on the state court of appeals, nominated her to the state supreme court. The "not qualified" rating was based primarily on Brown's judicial inexperience, and her tendency to interject into legal opinions her political and philosophical views.


Quote:
The Commission received specific complaints that Brown was careless of established legal precedent, had difficulty grasping complex litigation, lacked compassion and intolerance for opposing views, misunderstood legal standards, and was slow to produce opinions.


Quote:
Brown has received similar criticisms during her tenure on the court, often clashing with fellow Wilson appointee, Chief Justice Ronald George. In a case dealing with affirmative action ..., George concurred in the result reached by Brown but stated that her recitation of the history of affirmative action "represent[ed] a serious distortion of history." 4 In a case dealing with a gun control law, George dissented from Brown's decision and noted that Brown's interpretation of the law "represents a clear and unwarranted frustration of the intent of the law to ban assault weapons.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 10:35 am
Talk about demolishing the opponents' case, guys. Good work.

McG, care to come back to the thread and support your previous accusations/admit the faults in them?

Cycloptichorn
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 11:16 am
Admit what? The data speaks for itself. If you can find any faults in the data, please let me know.

Brown's major problem has been being too conservative apparently. Imagine that, if you can... Democrats stonewalling a judicial candidate for being too conservative...
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 12:08 pm
Brown's problem...
McGentrix wrote:

Brown's major problem has been being too conservative apparently. Imagine that, if you can... Democrats stonewalling a judicial candidate for being too conservative...


Brown's problem is two-fold. First, she doesn't seem to be too good at understanding law. I'm a layman here, but that seems to be the opinion of the experts as well. Second, she is an "activist" judge, who ignores laws she doesn't like or twists their meanings to suit her own views. In my opinion, either of those disqualify any judge, liberal or conservative.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 12:16 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Admit what? The data speaks for itself. If you can find any faults in the data, please let me know.


McG, you are too funny. It appears your only response is to pretend you haven't seen anyone pointing out the faults.

The numbers you provided are quite out of date and incomplete as I pointed out with my posts and included a citation that shows that the 108th Congress confirmed all but 21 of Bush's nominations for both district and circuit courts and of those only 20 are presently unconfirmed in this Congress.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 12:17 pm
Re: Brown's problem...
engineer wrote:
McGentrix wrote:

Brown's major problem has been being too conservative apparently. Imagine that, if you can... Democrats stonewalling a judicial candidate for being too conservative...


Brown's problem is two-fold. First, she doesn't seem to be too good at understanding law. I'm a layman here, but that seems to be the opinion of the experts as well. Second, she is an "activist" judge, who ignores laws she doesn't like or twists their meanings to suit her own views. In my opinion, either of those disqualify any judge, liberal or conservative.


What, other than opinion do you have to back that up though?

Ted Kennedy... heh, this makes me laugh just writting this... said "The nomination of Janice Rogers Brown is a prime example of a nominee who sees the federal bench as a platform to advance her own extremist views,"

Sen. Jeff Sessions of Alabama, said Brown was the type of judge the country needs, who has "a reverence for our Constitution, who will approach these issues with independence, an open mind, a lot of common sense, a willingness to work hard and an ability to communicate clearly and effectively."

So, the left doesn't like Brown because she is too conservative.

As for her lack of knowledge of the law? *pft* She has an extensive education and background working with the law. She is a sitting judge in the California state supreme court. Last time I checked, idiots were not allowed to hold that position.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 12:49 pm
Perhaps not an opinion I would agree with 100%, but an opinion worth noting.

Quote:
Judicial Tyranny & Renegade Judges
The Founding Fathers established our Constitution for the judicial system to have the least power of the three branches of government. They knew if the judicial branch should become dominate, freedom of speech & especially freedom of religion would be severely limited as it had been in Europe with the Monarchs. But what the Founders of our nation feared most has happened.
Today, we are experiencing nothing less than judicial tyranny in our court system. Federal judges are appointed for life and are accountable to no one. These unelected renegade judges were mostly appointed by President Carter and Clinton. They are seizing power in this country and writing laws from the bench, instead of interpreting laws as the Constitution requires. These atheistic judges have a personal vendetta and their agenda is to remove all traces of Christianity from the public arena and force secularism and atheism on all Americans.
Most Americans are very familiar with the Ten Commandment issue and the battle that Supreme Court Justice Roy Moore has been through in trying to keep the Ten Commandment Monument in his Alabama Supreme Court building. But in the end Moore lost his fight and his job, he has recently, appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court to get his job back. Federal judge Myron Thompson ruled that the state of Alabama cannot acknowledge God and forced the removal of the monument. This was an example of judicial tyranny to its fullest degree. It didn't matter to Federal judge Thompson that Chief Justice Roy Moore's monument was supported by a large majority of Alabamians. It didn't matter that the majority of Americans were in favor of keeping the monument in place. It didn't matter that Moore's acknowledgement of God was consistent with the Declaration of Independence and the state Constitution of Alabama, both of which acknowledge God. It didn't matter that this ruling was at odds with American history and the Constitution of the United States.
The following is another example of Judicial Tyranny: An appeals court in San Francisco ruled that the Second Amendment does not, grant Americans a personal right to own fire arms. It didn't matter to this left-wing court that the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is very clear in stating, "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." It didn't matter to this 9th U.S Circuit Court of Appeals that their ruling flies in the face of two centuries of popular thinking and the majority of the American public today. By the way, it was this same appeals courts who ruled that the "Pledge of Allegiance" was un-Constitutional because it contained the words "Under God" in it. Now consider this: 23 judges who sit on the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, 17 of them are radical liberal Democrats and 9 of the 17 were appointed by Bill Clinton. While President Clinton was in office he appointed over 300 radical judges to the federal bench.
However, Mr. Clinton was not the only president to appoint these renegade judges. Nixon, Bush senior and even Reagan are also guilty, although to a much lesser degree. One radical judge is still on the bench that was appointed by Lyndon Johnson.
The ACLU and these renegade judges have been using the courts for the last 40 years to remake America into a Godless society. Consider the damage these liberal courts have done to our Christian Heritage: Banned prayer and Bible reading from the public schools, outlawed the Ten Commandment from public places, given legal status to same-sex marriage, overturned the laws of all 50 states to permit abortion, ruled in favor of schools who want to give condoms and birth-control devices without the consent of parents and told the Boy Scouts they can't mention faith in God in their oath or prohibit openly homosexual Scout Masters. With all this judicial tyranny presently going on, it is still not enough for most Democrats senators in Washington D. C., they want more of these renegade judges. That's what the Senate Democrat filibuster is all about. Senators like Tom Daschle, Ted Kennedy, Hillary Clinton, Patrick Leaky, John Edwards, John Kerry and others are cleverly and dishonestly using senate rules to prevent the confirmation of President Bush's well qualified common-sense conservative judge nominees. These liberal democrats know that the legislature and the American people do not want to wipe out our Christian Heritage, so their agenda is to have atheistic renegade judges on the bench to over ride the Constitution and do the dirty work for them.
Now, what gives inspiration and drive to these anti-Christian judges to make such un-Constitutional rulings from the bench? Answer! THE GREAT LIE OF "SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE." That in our Constitution there is a "wall of separation of church and state." There is nothing in the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights or the U.S. Constitution that even mention "separation of church & state." But our courts and their politically correct cohorts are telling the American people that there is.
It has often been said, "That if you tell a lie long enough, strong enough and often enough people will believe it. That is exactly what the liberal establishment has done and regretfully many Americans have taken this lie "hook, line and sinker." As long as people believe this lie, we will continue to see presidents and senators elected who will maintain their effort to put more of these renegade judges on the bench and we will continue to suffer from the rulings of judicial tyranny that would cause our fore-fathers to roll over in their graves.


source
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 12:58 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Perhaps not an opinion I would agree with 100%, but an opinion worth noting.


Yeah, I guess we should note opinions that have no clue about the constitution. They are pretty scary.

When someone redefines the role of the courts to their definition and then says that it violates the constitution based on their redefinition, it shows that the rest of us need to stand up and put an end to this stupidity. The courts are SUPPOSED to rule on the constitution. It is NOT unconstititutional when they do that.

When you going to address the issue of your statistics McG? You know, the ones you claimed proved you were right about Dems but turned out to be faulty? The 108th Congress confirmed about 110 of the about 130 Bush nominations. A far cry from your claim and certainly a LOT better than what they ever did for Clinton.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 01:02 pm
Quote:
Banned prayer and Bible reading from the public schools, outlawed the Ten Commandment from public places, given legal status to same-sex marriage, overturned the laws of all 50 states to permit abortion, ruled in favor of schools who want to give condoms and birth-control devices without the consent of parents and told the Boy Scouts they can't mention faith in God in their oath or prohibit openly homosexual Scout Masters.


I loved these lies in the piece McG. Don't you find them humorous too?

Prayer and bibles are not banned from public schools. Only certain school controlled activities can't force kids to do them.

The 10 commandments are hardly banned from public places. Only govt use of it that supports particular religion is banned.

Not all states had laws overturned by Roe V Wade. Several states had legal abortions when Roe was ruled on. No laws were overturned in those states.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2005 01:07 pm
Why post misleading articles
Quote:
These unelected renegade judges were mostly appointed by President Carter and Clinton.


Umm, most of the current judges were appointed by Republicans and Republican appointees are the majority on most of the appellete courts as well. Don't you have a problem with this outright distortion? Your article goes on about Moore. Moore lost his job for not respecting the rule of law. He had his day in court and refused to accept the ruling. As a judge, that is the height of hubris. I doubt he allowed that behavior from those he ruled against.

Quote:
As for her lack of knowledge of the law? *pft* She has an extensive education and background working with the law. She is a sitting judge in the California state supreme court. Last time I checked, idiots were not allowed to hold that position.


Yes, but somehow she still doesn't get it. Last I checked, anyone nominated and confirmed to be a judge gets to be one. I didn't say she was an idiot, but those who reviewed her rulings and those who sit with her on the court, including the Wilson appointed Chief Justice, don't think too highly of her.

I would forward neither Senators Kennedy's or Abrams' opinions as useful to having a rational discussion on judges. My opinion is my own, but I have researched it. Give me a non-activist judge who follows the rule of law every time.
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