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Filibustering let loose

 
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 06:42 am
This question for Baldimo, Woiyo and McGentrix

Are you opposed to the filibuster on principle, or is this just partisan whining.

Would you all feel the same way if the tables were turned and there was an extreme (in your opinion) liberal president with a Democratically controlled Congress? Would you support a Democratic attempt to rewrite the rules mid-session to stop a filibuster?

There. I thought not.

I am taking the moral high ground here.

The filibuster is an important tool to keep the majority from appointing extreme judges of any stripe. Because of the filibuster, Presidents must appoint moderate judges that are acceptable to both sides of the American political divide. This has got to be good for the American Democracy. I support the filibuster no matter who is in charge.

Giving one party too much power is dangrous. I don't care who it is. The fact that this Republicans are God's party doesn't change my opinion.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 06:54 am
Do you feel that every Republican in the Senate is an ultra-conservative, right winged, evangelical sycophant?
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 07:23 am
No. I don't. But that's irrelevant.

I am saying that the filibuster is an important part of the political process because it ensures moderate judges that are acceptable to both sides of the American political divide.

This is true no matter who is in the Senate.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 09:08 am
That is how I feel about it also. Majority rule, minority rights.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 09:08 am
Checks and balances rock.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 09:17 am
McGentrix wrote:
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
Well, yeah, hence the comment I mean they're all opinion posts around here righ?


I dunno, a lot of posts come off as though they are trying to be facts.


yes...
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 09:29 am
ebrown_p wrote:
No. I don't. But that's irrelevant.

I am saying that the filibuster is an important part of the political process because it ensures moderate judges that are acceptable to both sides of the American political divide.

This is true no matter who is in the Senate.


So, if you don't believe them to be ultra-conservative, right winged, evangelical sycophants, what makes you believe they would vote for ultra-conservative, right winged, evangelical sycophant judges?

I do not recall Bob Dole filibustering any of Clinton's judicial nominations...
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 09:33 am
McG, do you believe that every Democrat in the Senate is an ultra-liberal, left-wing, atheistic sycophant? If not, then what makes you think they would filibuster reasonable nominees?

It's wholly irrelevant since what we're talking about is the preservation of rules of the Senate that have served us well historically. Why are they all of a sudden in need of change?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 09:38 am
Because the democratic leadership has threatened to use filibustering in much the same way a two year old uses a tantrum when they do not get their way.

Statesmanship in the Democratic party has gone the way of the edsel I am afraid.
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 09:40 am
McGentrix wrote:
I do not recall Bob Dole filibustering any of Clinton's judicial nominations...

Well, it wasn't Bob Dole....

http://mediamatters.org/items/200503160004

Quote:
In addition to the approximately 60 judicial nominees that the Republican-led Senate blocked without resorting to a filibuster, several Republican senators, including current Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-TN), unsuccessfully attempted to filibuster other Clinton judicial nominees. The Los Angeles Times reported on November 13, 2003: "As recently as March 2000, several Republicans voted to filibuster two Californians whom President Clinton had named to the 9th Circuit appellate court: Richard A. Paez and Marsha L. Berzon. ... Ultimately, the Republican stalling tactics failed, and both jurists now sit on the appellate court." The Washington Post documented a third attempted filibuster of a Clinton judicial nominee on October 5, 1994: The Senate "voted 85 to 12 to cut off a filibuster against confirmation of U.S. District Judge H. Lee Sarokin as a member of the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. But Republicans continued to talk into the evening against Sarokin, whom they condemned as a 'liberal' and 'judicial activist.' "
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 09:42 am
McGentrix wrote:
Because the democratic leadership has threatened to use filibustering in much the same way a two year old uses a tantrum when they do not get their way.

Statesmanship in the Democratic party has gone the way of the edsel I am afraid.

I'm quite sure that the lack of collegiality is not entirely one-sided.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 09:44 am
McGentrix wrote:
Because the democratic leadership has threatened to use filibustering in much the same way a two year old uses a tantrum when they do not get their way.

Statesmanship in the Democratic party has gone the way of the edsel I am afraid.


It's a filibuster if your team does it, a tantrum if the opposing team does it. It never changes. It's all arguing semantics.
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 10:16 am
What I love is when Frist, for example, criticizes the Dems for "politicizing" the process. As if what the Senate normally does has nothing to do with politics.

How stupid must he think the American people are?
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 10:22 am
Um, quite stupid?

And they ARE. This has been one of the great paths to victory for the Republican party; greater understanding of the way the average mind works.

For example, the Republicans have figured out that you can lie, say whatever you want, during a speech or a soundbyte. It doesn't matter. Why? Because 20 million will see the soundbyte, 5 million will learn that it was a lie and be pissed, and that leaves a huge net gain. As long as you can keep the shuck and jive going, you'll enjoy the support of the masses b/c they never do the fact-checking to know that you are full of ****.

Direct mail, Talk radio, make it even more pronounced.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 10:28 am
McGentrix wrote:
Because the democratic leadership has threatened to use filibustering in much the same way a two year old uses a tantrum when they do not get their way.


That's what filibustering is. The fact that you don't like it because the Democrats are doing it doesn't mean that the rules need to be changed.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 10:28 am
And I'll add that there is nothing more childish than changing the rules of the game when it looks like you might not win.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 10:39 am
ebrown_p wrote:
This question for Baldimo, Woiyo and McGentrix

Are you opposed to the filibuster on principle, or is this just partisan whining.

Would you all feel the same way if the tables were turned and there was an extreme (in your opinion) liberal president with a Democratically controlled Congress? Would you support a Democratic attempt to rewrite the rules mid-session to stop a filibuster?

There. I thought not.



Amazing how you answer your own question.

A filibuster to stop a judical nominee is wrong regardless of who is in the majority.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 10:41 am
No, it isn't. Why would it be?

Neener neener

Cycloptichorn
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 10:43 am
woiyo wrote:
A filibuster to stop a judical nominee is wrong regardless of who is in the majority.

How is it "wrong?" Is there a particular moral or ethical value that you feel is being broken?
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 11:15 am
McGentrix wrote:
ebrown_p wrote:
No. I don't. But that's irrelevant.

I am saying that the filibuster is an important part of the political process because it ensures moderate judges that are acceptable to both sides of the American political divide.

This is true no matter who is in the Senate.


So, if you don't believe them to be ultra-conservative, right winged, evangelical sycophants, what makes you believe they would vote for ultra-conservative, right winged, evangelical sycophant judges?


You question, and your points are irrelevant to my contention.

I am only saying that the filibuster is a good moderating tool. Having judges that are acceptable to both sides of a very divided nation is a good thing. This says nothing about the Senators or judicial candidates involved.

Under the status quo, Judges that are acceptable to both sides will be nominated. Judges that are sufficiently unacceptable to a significant minority will be rejected.

That seems like the way it should be.
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