The US, UN & Iraq II

Feel free to ignore the facts in this if you choose. There is no question that France had developed very lucrative oil contracts with Iraq. There is no question that these may become moot if we depose Saddam, and that France has acted as they have to protect these oil contracts--not the Iraqi people, not "peace". Oil and money are definitely what this was about for France. Hiding secret illegal arms deals may also have been a motivation--time will tell.

But don't worry... I expect you to attribute the worst motives to the US and the best to everyone and anyone else. Your response comes as no surprise.

Nice to know you realize that. Many who will jump on this post of yours will not see the reality, only the ammo.

dyslexia - that's not military, it's political; of which I agree whole heartedly!

And then there's this:

By deciding to pursue their enemy into the city center, the Americans appeared to have enraged many of the Iraqi civilians who live there, including those who said they were predisposed to support the American effort.

One of those, Mustafa Mohammed Ali, a medical assistant at the Saddam Hospital, said he had spent much of the day hauling dead and wounded civilians out of buildings that had been bombed by the Americans. Mr. Ali that said he had no love for the Iraqi president but that the American's failure to discriminate between enemy fighters and Iraqi civilians had turned him decisively against the American invasion.

"I saw how the Americans bombed our civilians with my own eyes," Mr. Mustafa said, and he held up a bloodied sleeve to show how he had dragged them into the ambulances.

"You want to overthrow Saddam Hussein's regime?" Mr. Mustafa asked. "Go to Baghdad. What are you doing here? What are you doing in our cities?"


We learned a lot of lessons from 9/11, but it occurs to me that there's one we might have overlooked--when you attack a nation, people tend to rally around their leader, even if they hate him.

JUst heard on the news. The coalition have now blamed Iraq for the market explosion, claiming sabotage. That has finished me. George Bush Jnr is the biggest tyrant in the history of mankind.

How does it feel to be ruled by a child killer?

Thinking about the fact that two bases of 101th Airbone Division are called "Forward Operating Base Shell" and "Forward Operating Base Exxon" ... .

And, of course, there is now an "Bush International Airport"!

There is also George H. W. Bush Turnpike (notice, it's a turnpike ) in Dallas!

Why not a GWBush round-about? c.i.

Wilso, the latest on the marketplace explosion is that it was not a cruise missile. Anti-aircraft activity, including surface-to-air missiles, was undertaken by Iraq. It is considered possible, though not probable, the damage may have resulted from US aircraft employing suppressive fire at the anti-aircraft positions, but it is unclear whether there in fact were any US aircraft capable of such suppressive activityin that immediate area at the time. The matter remains under investigation, and further developments may be expected.

You Bush bashers have clogged up every other thread on this forum with your hate and lies----why can't you leave this one relatively free of your venom. I have a small counter hate machine of my own design idling quietly.

Tartarin, I don't maintain that The US is uniformly above-board and trustworthy ... far from it. However, no effort is made to cover up embarrassments such as mis-targeting or freindly-fire incidents. There is considerable propaganda value to be had from such an approach, which likely is more a motivating factor than any effort at "Transparency".

The Pentagon has confirmed it targeted missiles and rocket launchers in a heavily populated area of Baghdad overnight.
Iraqi television has shown pictures of a popular market place hit by a missile strike, in which local officials say at least 14 people died.
US military officials say they targeted the missile and rocket launchers which were located less than 100 metres from a populated area.
They say they used precision weapons in the strike and simply do not know if it was this that was responsible for the civilian casualties shown on Iraqi television.
The US says the Iraqi Government has been placing troops and military equipment in mosques hospitals and residential areas.
Pentagon officials say they do not know exactly where the civilians died in the city.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s817331.htm


The US has denied that it intentionally targeted the Shaab suburb in the north of the capital, but the Pentagon left open the possibility that a missile or bomb had gone astray.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,924083,00.html

The Guardian article, above, was posted one hour ago and is full of most recent information on the invasion.

Ya know, perc, I don't really mind "The Bush Bashers". I don't agree with them, and I think a lot of them are more "Anti-American" than "Anti-War" or "Anti-Bush".

On a different note, heavy precision munitions are just now being deployed against sites along the Euphrates in and near Baghdad. From the size of the explosions, it would appear fixed-wing aircraft are delivering the munitions.

The apparent coalition near-term strategy seems to be completing a surrounding of Baghdad over the next 72 to 96 hours. Lead elements of the Southern Push, both Army and Marine Corps, are integrating heavy armor, and there has been tremendous stockpiling of fuel, ammunition, and other supplies well forward. A number of combat bridges have been thrown across the river and the many canals lacing the area. Activity in the North is picking up rapidly, and there is definitely greater activity in and around the Western airfields. The pressure on Saddam continues to build.

Another note ... it appears Russian SA-18 anti-aircraft missles and launchers have been discovered by units involved in the Southern Push, and that these missiles incorporate updates that were non-existant in 1991. However those missiles got to Iraq, their presence indicates SOMEBODY violated UN sanctions against providing weaponry to Iraq following the Gulf War.

Timber -- I think I'm going to have to call you on that: "I don't really mind "The Bush Bashers". I don't agree with them, and I think a lot of them are more "Anti-American" than "Anti-War" or "Anti-Bush".

In my view, those are not the words of a "moderator."

perception i am indeed a Bush basher, i was also a Clinton-Nixon-Ford-Johnson basher.

You think this 'why', timber?
(Not asking you to name some examples, but I really would be very interested .... Especially, since it should concern especially us non-US members here!)

you can't hold an opinion if you're a moderator?

Timber wrote:

<Ya know, perc, I don't really mind "The Bush Bashers". I don't agree with them, and I think a lot of them are more "Anti-American" than "Anti-War" or "Anti-Bush". >

Anti-American? Naw---Timber---How could you possibly come to that conclusion? How about it guys----let's see a show of hands--how many are Anti-American? Com-on there isn't much I can do about it---don't be afraid. Tell me you don't really hate your country----you just hate Bush ---- right?

Caution: This survey is only open to citizens---we already know where Wilso and Walter Stand.

Dys

Yeah we already know you're an "Anarchist"----you just hate all authority----you must inhabit one of those caves in the southwest that the Navajoe indians evacuated.

Someone wrote:

you can't hold an opinion if you're a moderator?

I heard nary a word when Blatham voiced all of his Anti-bush, Anti-American sentiment, Anti-Administration----You people know nothing about objectivity and fair play.