Under the Patriot Act that president Bush signed, libraries must report to the government what books readers check out. This was reported on t.v. news just moments ago, in the San Francisco Bay Area. Any comments? c.i.
That questions deserves a stand-alone topic, c.i.
Vietnamnurse
I was not suggesting that you did not support the men in the field. What I meant and maybe I did not express it clearly is that IMO once the war starts the demonstrations should stop
au, my husband was born very near your birth year 1932...we were in Vietnam together, in fact we met there. We do not intend to stop demonstrating against this war after it starts. It does not mean we demonstrate against the troops; we demonstrate against the administration. This is clearly different from the time we came home from Vietnam and the troops were met with disgust and were spat upon. I remember those days as they are imprinted on my soul. There is a clear difference.
Vietnamnurse
That is what I was alluding to. I do not want to see a repeat of that. At least in the Korean war we were not met with disgust. We were just ignored. After all it was just a police action and we did not win.
Au: There will be no end to demonstrations, but they will not be directed against the troops. The world has changed in myriad ways from when we came back from Vietnam. I never demonstrated against the Vietnam war...I was like a bowl of jelly when I returned at age 24. I didn't understand a wit about the machinations of my government. Now, I know more and I will demonstrate...against the administration...not the troops. Diane Carlson Evans, the nurse who is responsible for the Vietnam Women's Memorial in Washington, DC is a friend of mine. She is one of the people who is spearheading the march for the veterans on the weekend of the 22nd. Read her remarks on the site online. We love the troops, for they are part of us. It is the administration that we are against.
v-nurse and au, I have thought about this. I really do believe that our soldiers will understand that the peace marches and rallies are an attempt to change the minds of our leaders. I believe that our military is there to defend our country in case of attack. I would think that most soldiers are of this mind. Many, if not most, of them must be conflicted about this pre-emptive war.
We are showing our military no disrespect when we gather in Washington this Saturday and try to show the president by our numbers that many of his citizens have grave doubts about the course he is taking. If we sit back and let this precipitate attack take place without expressing our objections, we are as guilty as the attackers.
Yes, we condone by default. c.i.
No way. The idea that demonstrations would stop is monstrous. I don't think they should stop until the warmongers are out of office, no longer available as leaders or advisors, behind a door tightly shut.
How are the troops supposed to know?
They see big rallies against the war----to most of them against the war is against them------how does that make them feel as they prepare to die?
Saddam sees the big rallies against the war-----he laughs---he is winning----if we give him more time he WILL win.
For those who are members of MoveOn.org and admirers of Eli Pariser (as I am) and who've even corresponded with him by email -- here's a pretty nice article on him in Sunday's NYTimes magazine:
Smart-Mobbing the War
By GEORGE PACKER
You can find America's new antiwar movement in a bright yellow room four floors above the traffic of West 57th Street -- a room so small that its occupant burns himself on the heat pipe when he turns over in bed and can commute to his office without touching the floor. Eli Pariser, 22, tall, bearded, spends long hours every day at his desk hunched over a laptop, plotting strategy and directing the electronic traffic of an instantaneous movement that was partly assembled in his computer. During the past three months it has gathered the numbers that took three years to build during Vietnam. It may be the fastest-growing protest movement in American history...
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/09/magazine/09ANTIWAR.html
I must admit this article (in spite of some no-no's) gave me heart.
Saddam will "win" what? People are not supporting Saddam. If you don't understand that, you'll not understand what the peace march is all about. c.i.
perception wrote:How are the troops supposed to know?
They see big rallies against the war----to most of them against the war is against them------how does that make them feel as they prepare to die?
Saddam sees the big rallies against the war-----he laughs---he is winning----if we give him more time he WILL win.
Where from, pray tell, do you glean that little tidbit of wisdom? I'm a soldier, and the soldiers I know can think for themselves quite well, thank you.
Frankly, I think that's BS, Perception. Vets have been marching in pretty big numbers -- even here in Bush-land. American military aren't dumb and out of touch. Saddam isn't so out of touch that he thinks we're supporting him! I mean, Come On! Maybe you get confused, but they don't.
Tartar
In your mind it's clear as mud----sleep well.
I guess the troops, not being total cretins, I hope, will have to make up their own minds, unless they are just mercenaries, and then they have signed up to fight in return for a bed and three squares. I do not think you can project what the troops feel about people who want peace. If the soldiers "want war," so that they can fight and kill, then they would indeed be annoyed at people who do not "want war." I would think that US soldiers, heading off to attack another country in an unprovoked war, would either be in denial or wonder what the hell they had got themselves into.
I dreamed of flying fighter jets when women were not allowed to do so. Friends would ask me, Why do you want to fly planes to attack and kill? I said that my desire was not to "attack and kill." What I wanted was to learn an difficult and exciting skill, and demonstrate leadership, and be ready if our country was ever attacked.
be careful tartarin your on the edge of being labeled a dope smoking poet and we all know what that means!~!
