The US, UN & Iraq II

Walter,
Just where are the US troops landing? From what I am hearing, the ships have gotten through the Suez Canal.

We are all so naive and believing in what we want to believe. I, for instance, want to believe that the US government would not lie to us. Others have their own beliefs.

I want to believe that the "war" will be swift and decisive, and very little lose of human life. I know full well that that is just a wish, but I make it every hour.

I await the tolling of the bell.


sumac

Amen.

Alas, we know they lie to us, all the time and without shame -- and are out of office before we have the full story.

Reports coming in from Iraq now (on NPR) say that they're expecting it to start as early as tonight. Sounds like damn soon, whatever the exact moment is.

I wonder whether we'll be seeing strong reaction or acquiescence among the discouraged and outraged of the world?

10 Escort Vessels of the two Mediterranean Carrier Groups transited the Suez to take up firing positions for their Tomahawks which will not cause the missiles to overfly Turkish Airspace. The equipment of The 4th Infantry Division (The Army's most powerful Infantry Division) is off Turkish shores as far as I know, apart from what little may have been offloaded, if any. The Personnel of 4ID are still at Ft. Hood Texas, and it appears 4ID has no role in this segment of things. They, having been intended for Turkish Deployment, were not part of "Plan B" which now is clearly in effect. I doubt the carriers will be redeployed, though it is possible. The Red Sea is a pretty confined space, and I don't know if I'd want to stick a couple carriers there right now. I expect the escort vessels will rejoin the carriers in The Med after some business is taken care of.



timber

Just an addition to my immediate earlier post:

The warships that transited the Suez Canal included the submarines USS Providence, USS Newport News and USS Augusta; destroyer USS Donald Cook; guided missile destroyer USS Porter; guided missile cruiser San Jacinto and the oiler USS Kanawha. Two others, at least, I am not sure of, but the total seems to have been 10. The two of which I am unsure could be either combatant or support vessles. Significant Air Defense and Surface Defense remains with the carriers.



timber

Yes, timber. Here comes history. I cannot believe that my country is about to do this.

I want to believe that the "war" will be swift and decisive, and very little lose of human life. I know full well that that is just a wish, but I make it every hour.

Truer words were never spoken, Sumac. We form our beliefs, based on who knows what, and from that point on, every new bit of information reinforces those beliefs. Since it seems so true of all humanity, no one should be offended to hear it.

Your locomotive seems a good analogy, c.i.

Aargh! I hate this.

The way I see things,this all was a foregone conclusion some time ago. The only issues remaining being when, by whom, and how swiftly can it be pulled off (i.e., getting to Iragi military officers to defect, for example.

The weather issue, as Roger pointed out, can't be ignored. That is, I believe, what is meant by window of opportunity. Roger was at Ft. Gordon. I, an old crone at the age of 55, went through full training to become an interior structural fireperson not far on the other side of the SC border. I can't tell you how bad it is to be inside that gear and going into 100+ degree heat, particularly if you are wearing an airmask and carting cannisters of oxygen on your back. Add to that the enormous weight of that gear, and you get the picture.

Add to that, the extra protection of gas gear, and you have yet an additional weight factor.

Even if I had been in my prime, which I was not, being the oldest person (not woman) to complete full training, the cost to the human body is enormous. In firefighting, we depend upon our captains to pace us, and pull us out every fifteen minutes or so and replace with others. You have no idea the desperation one feels to try to get out of all of that garb. Then you collapse on the ground and hope that someone will bring you water.

That is why EMS is always dispatched to fires....not so much for survivors, but to revive firefighters.

The soliders fighting in heat don't have someone to give them a time out every fifteen minutes.

I know this sounds simplistic, but it isn't. The more time goes on, and the more the desert heats up, the more deaths will occur on both sides. Heart attacks, heat stroke, you name it. The coolness of the season was the defining window, and it has largely been blown. For this we have Saddam's game to thank, the UN's wimpiness to thank, and France and other countries' ulterior motives to thank. More deaths than would have been necessary. As I suggested before, that train, locomotive or not, left the station a long time ago, and there was nothing we could do to derail it.

sumac, You bring up a good point. Even when we were in basic training, some people fainted from the heat, and we weren't even carrying anything on our backs. It was just hot. Many human bodies can't handle the heat. With the added equipment, weapons, and weight, the effectiveness of our troops are going to be deminished a great deal. I really feel for them. c.i.

Huh! I had no idea you were a firefighter, sumac. I'm on the local Volunteer Department. Fortunately, our meetings are significantly more frequent than are our callouts.


Many Presidents ago, I trained and was thereafter stationed for a while at 29 Palms, one of The US's largest, area-wise, military installations. It is in the Mojave Desert of Southern California. Essentially, it is around a thousand square miles of nothing but about a thousand square miles.
I know precisely how inconvenient it is to cope with protective gear, normal combat load, and 120-Degree-Plus Farenheit heat. That will be a considerable factor. Robust troops will die with no other cause.




timber

I am online and reading the news from UK sources. All of the commentary is as if it were scripted. This war is inevitable.

My country is involved in a holocaust of its own creation.

A view of France:


What does France want?

Not a long article; well worth reading in its entirety. Its point is made in its last paragraph:




timber

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2388278

This leaves little doubt as to what The US intends.




While there may or may not be a Ministry of Disinformation, the fact remains that so far this evening, I've not heard from some folks who generally e-mail to their lists by this time. A number of blogs have noted similar change in activity. Tuesday or Wednesday could be Very Big News Days. I think Monday will be mostly handwringing, which will no doubt be treated as Very Big News.



timber

timber old bud

The 'what does France want?' article is the product of....the Lexington Institute. It's worth a little trip to their site. Guess what their position is on global warming? On the Clean Air act? etc etc.

The tone of the article was a dead give-away, as in "...Behind the desire to shape and control the character of the new Europe is a French desire to cleanse that continent of the pernicious influences of American capitalism and culture. "

But that's cool...the world needs more well funded right wing think tanks.

blatham, I admit to stooping to posting someone else's opinion, something I do not often do and often complain about, and I don't deny the agenda of the author or my own foreknowledge of that agenda. Still, it is a point of view which largely parallels my own, and written more glibly than I can manage.

I've noticed others given to citing the opinions of others more frequently than I myself tend to do.


And as an American, I claim the Right of Inconsistancy when it may so conveniently be exercized



timber

I think France is a non-issue. They said they would continue to veto any vote in the UN. They've essentially counted themselves out of any negotiations. They're playing the gambling game like Saddam - hoping to win Europe. I think it's going to backfire on them when this is all over. Who will trust them in the future if they will not even negotiate? c.i.

I heard that France made a gesture today that they would be able to negotiate on a deal with about 30 more days - don't know anything else. Have fun in London c.i. - I'll be thinking about you!

I'm sure Saddam Hussein would also be willing to wait 30 days - to start talking. So what?