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The US, UN & Iraq II

 
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2003 02:01 pm
Great little icons, Wilso.

Quote:
Perception - not one of us here wants america to fail. We want america to raise to it's greatest potential. Some of us don't believe that being a bully is our supreme goal.
Quote:


LittleK, I agree with you. Our finest hour would be in leading the world out of war, showing the other countries how it is done.

Gautam, Nice photo Smile
0 Replies
 
trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2003 02:07 pm
Kara wrote:
Quote:
Perception - not one of us here wants america to fail. We want america to raise to it's greatest potential. Some of us don't believe that being a bully is our supreme goal.

LittleK, I agree with you. Our finest hour would be in leading the world out of war, showing the other countries how it is done.

Still others do not think that the US is in any way behaving as a bully, and believe that working to rid the world of despots and terrorists is part an parcel of rising to our greatest potential.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2003 03:45 pm
Military Can Handle Delay In War's Start, General Says
By Vernon Loeb and Thomas E. Ricks
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, March 14, 2003

A delay of a month or more in invading Iraq can be handled by the U.S. military and would not increase U.S. casualties, the nation's number two military officer told a group of defense experts yesterday.
According to a number of those in attendance at the closed-door briefing at the Pentagon, Marine Gen. Peter Pace said that while he would rather launch an invasion "tomorrow" if President Bush gives the order, waiting a month to invade in hotter weather would slow down U.S. forces but not necessarily cause greater casualties.
With the Bush administration frustrated by diplomatic delays associated with its efforts to garner majority support on the U.N. Security Council for a new resolution authorizing war with Iraq, Pace's comments represented a clear statement from the Pentagon that there is not an appreciable cost to waiting from a conventional military standpoint. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A23118-2003Mar13?language=printer


Don't Support Our Troops
Win or Lose, War on Iraq is Wrong

by Ted Rall
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0313-01.htm

Indict Saddam Hussein for War Crimes
http://www.workingforchange.com/activism/action.cfm?ItemId=14635

FBI Probes Fake Evidence of Iraqi Nuclear Plans
By Dana Priest and Susan Schmidt
Washington Post
Thursday 13 March 2003
The FBI is looking into the forgery of a key piece of evidence linking Iraq to a nuclear weapons program, including the possibility that a foreign government is using a deception campaign to foster support for military action against Iraq.
"It's something we're just beginning to look at," a senior law enforcement official said yesterday. Officials are trying to determine whether the documents were forged to try to influence U.S. policy, or whether they may have been created as part of a disinformation campaign directed by a foreign intelligence service.
"We're looking at it from a preliminary stage as to what it's all about," he said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17888-2003Mar12.html
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2003 04:13 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
great wilso

What are they all saying?



They are drooling at the thought of rivers of Iraqi blood flowing down the streets.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2003 04:15 pm
Quote:
Sources said that one of the documents was a letter discussing the uranium deal supposedly signed by Niger President Tandja Mamadou. The sources described the signature as "childlike" and said that it clearly was not Mamadou's.

Another, written on paper from a 1980s military government in Niger, bears the date of October 2000 and the signature of a man who by then had not been foreign minister of Niger in 14 years, sources said.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/14/sprj.irq.documents/


Well, it really can be that "If a mistake was made, a U.S. official suggested, it was more likely due to incompetence.".

You may understand, however, that it getting hard and harder to accept the documents shown as proof by the USA and UK.

Besides, it might well be that secret services in films and books work better than in reality.
0 Replies
 
ul
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2003 04:33 pm
The impact of Bush linking 9/11 and Iraq

... A New York Times/CBS poll this week shows that 45 percent of Americans believe Mr. Hussein was "personally involved" in Sept. 11, about the same figure as a month ago...


...According to Mr. Kull of PIPA, there is a strong correlation between those who see the Sept. 11-Iraq connection and those who support going to war.

In Selma, Ala., firefighter Thomas Wilson supports going to war with Iraq, and brings up Sept. 11 himself, saying we don't know who's already here in the US waiting to attack. When asked what that has to do with Iraq, he replies: "They're all in it together - all of them hate this country." The reason: "prosperity."...

Going to war with improper public understanding is risky," says Richard Parker, a former US ambassador to several Mideast countries. "If it's a failure, and we get bogged down, this is one of the accusations that [Bush] will have to face when it's all over."

...Antiwar activist Daniel Ellsberg says it's important to understand why public opinion appears to be playing out differently in the US and Europe. In fact, both peoples express a desire to work through the UN. But the citizens get different messages from their leaders. "Americans have been told by their president [that Hussein is] a threat to security, and so they believe that," says Mr. Ellsberg. "It's rather amazing, in light of that, that so many Americans do want this to be authorized by the UN. After all, the president keeps saying we don't have to ask the UN for permission to defend ourselves"

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0314/p02s01-woiq.html
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ul
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2003 04:36 pm
Florida would pay dearly for Iraq war


...Visit Florida warned that any recovery from a war now would probably be much slower than it was after the Sept. 11 attacks because of "depressing factors" such as low consumer-confidence levels.

...Under the right set of circumstances, the decline in tourism would be minimal, the agency said. If a U.S. victory is swiftand there is only a small increase in gasoline prices, tourism may decline only 15 percent, costing state tourism only about $1.9 billion.

But officials also said that tourism could fall 50 percent over the same period -- generating a loss of $6.3 billion -- if war breaks out, gasoline prices approach $3 a gallon and terrorists strike within the state....

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/custom/tourism/orl-asectourism14031403mar14,0,926897.story?coll=orl%2Dhome%2Dheadlines
0 Replies
 
trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2003 04:40 pm
Quote:
The impact of Bush linking 9/11 and Iraq ...

It's always nice to be reminded how many Americans "get it".
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2003 05:09 pm
What do they "get," Tres?

Do the manipulated ones "get" the link that is not there?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2003 08:07 pm
Walter

Nice to see you again. A lot has happened since we last talked. I am really quite quite pleased with the stand that so many people and governments are taking again this administration's policy regarding war with Iraq. It has been very effective. As a consequence of people's close attention, the deceptions (such as this forgery noted above, or the humorous case of Britain's presentation a few weeks ago) and inconsistencies and non sequitors are showing in high relief.

In a press briefing this morning, Ari was getting some good questions. But his answers were as dishonest and irrelevant as always. One reporter brought up the alliance with Guinea. Ari didn't find it convenient to mention that the country is a totalitarian state, about as undemocratic as things get, with an atrocious human rights record. For Ari, Guinea is 'a UN member'. Quite funny.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2003 08:14 pm
Secret US report scorns Bush policy attacks Middle East policy
By Andrew Gumbel in Los Angeles
15 March 2003


A classified State Department report has poured scorn on George Bush's much-touted policy that a military invasion of Iraq will lead to a flowering of democracy across the Middle East.

The report, leaked to the Los Angeles Times, is the latest indication of divisions within the Bush administration on the goals and even the wisdom of the war it is itching to start. And it offers a rebuke to neo-conservatives whose grandiose theories about refashioning the world in America's image have been central to the Iraq enterprise from the start.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2003 08:41 pm
Okay, which one is it? What makes this war so urgent? 1. Al Qaeda linkage to Iraq. 2. WMD including nukes. 3. Bring democracy to the region. 4. Sponsor of terrorism. 5. For the American People. 6. To save Iraqi's from Saddam. 7. For the oil. 8. Bring security to the region and the US. 9. Not complying with UN Resolutions. and 10. Regime change. c.i.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2003 09:29 pm
Dys' item in full...
Quote:
Secret US report scorns Bush policy attacks Middle East policy
By Andrew Gumbel in Los Angeles
15 March 2003


A classified State Department report has poured scorn on George Bush's much-touted policy that a military invasion of Iraq will lead to a flowering of democracy across the Middle East.

The report, leaked to the Los Angeles Times, is the latest indication of divisions within the Bush administration on the goals and even the wisdom of the war it is itching to start. And it offers a rebuke to neo-conservatives whose grandiose theories about refashioning the world in America's image have been central to the Iraq enterprise from the start.

"Political changes conducive to broader and enduring stability throughout the region will be difficult to achieve for a very long time," the report says. It cites corruption, serious infrastructure degradation and overpopulation as reasons to doubt whether any kind of stability, much less fully functioning democratic government, will be possible in the foreseeable future, in Iraq or in many of its neighbours. "Liberal democracy would be difficult to achieve," the report goes on. And it warns that any electoral democracy would be subject to exploitation by "anti- American elements" - a reference to the Islamist parties that American foreign policy has been at pains to exclude from government across the Middle East, even if that means supporting autocratic and repressive regimes. The intelligence source who leaked the document concluded: "This idea that you're going to transform the Middle East and fundamentally alter its trajectory is not credible."

The date on the report, 26 February, was the very day the President laid out his vision of a domino effect, in which a US invasion of Iraq would be the beginning of a democratic revolution throughout the Middle East. "A new regime in Iraq would serve as a dramatic and inspiring example of freedom for other nations in the region," Mr Bush said.

The State Department report, by contrast, dismisses the domino theory in its title: Iraq, the Middle East and Change: No Dominoes.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2003 09:43 pm
Quote:
A private memo written by the Spanish ambassador to the UN, Inocencio Arias, and seen by the Guardian, accuses the British government of being "exclusively obsessed" with swaying public opinion.

Mr Arias, clearly exasperated by the extent of leaks from the UK, said the British government was so nervous about the lack of public support for military action it had broken a joint agreement between the three governments to keep silent about strategy .

The British, he said, were engaged in "an attempt to show to their public opinion that London has made, right up until the last moment, a major effort to seek peace, which explains the leaks to the press".
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=387231
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2003 09:49 pm
I'm going to slip this one in here, though it's off topic, as folks ought to know about it...
Quote:
Pentagon seeks freedom to pollute land, air and sea
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=386524
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2003 09:50 pm
Quote:
Robert Fisk: The forgotten power of the General Assembly
14 March 2003


For 30 years, America's veto policy in the United Nations has been central to its foreign policy. More than 70 times the United States has shamelessly used its veto in the UN, most recently to crush a Security Council resolution condemning the Israeli killing of the British UN worker Iain Hook in Jenin last December.

Most of America's vetoes have been in support of its ally Israel. It has vetoed a resolution calling for the Israeli withdrawal from the Syrian Golan Heights (January, 1982), a resolution condemning the killing of 11 Muslims by Israeli soldiers near the al-Aqsa mosque (April, 1982), and a resolution condemning Israelis slaughter of 106 Lebanese refugees at the UN camp at Qana (April, 1986).

The full list would fill more than a page of this newspaper. And now we are told by George Bush Junior that the Security Council will become irrelevant if France, Germany and Russia use their veto? I often wonder how much further the sanctimoniousness of the Bush administration can go. Much further, I fear.
http://argument.independent.co.uk/commentators/story.jsp?story=386906
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sumac
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2003 09:52 pm
Just watched a live interview on TV (Fox News - I know, I know) with a Turkish journalist, a women although I didn't write down her name, who stated that she had been covering Turkish-Iraqi relations for 10 years.

She confirmed what we have been hearing, that Iraqi citizens will see us as liberators, not aggressors.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2003 09:58 pm
sumac, That's one good news! How about the surrounding countries? c.i.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2003 10:04 pm
Quote:
In the respected Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz, Undersecretary of State John Bolton, a leading hawk, was quoted last month as telling Israeli officials that Iran would be ''dealt with'' after the war with Iraq. Bolton declined requests for an interview.
http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/073/nation/Some_ask_who_s_next_after_Iraq_+.shtml
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2003 10:09 pm
Also heard on one of the TV stations, with photos, that Saddam has moved scud missiles (which he doesn't have) to positions close to his western border.

By the way, the issue of forged or faked documents, used by the US at the UN, is big news here. Not being swept under the rug.
0 Replies
 
 

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