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The US, UN & Iraq II

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 07:06 am
Quote:
On the streets of Baghdad yesterday, it was Kabul, November 2001, all over again. Then, enthusiasts for the war on terror were in triumphalist mood, as the Taliban regime was overthrown. The critics had been confounded, they insisted, kites were flying, music was playing again and women were throwing off their burkas. In parliament, Jack Straw mocked Labour MPs who predicted US and British forces would still be fighting in the country in six months' time.
Seventeen months later, such confidence looks grimly ironic. For most Afghans, "liberation" has meant the return of rival warlords, harsh repression, rampant lawlessness, widespread torture and Taliban-style policing of women. Meanwhile, guerrilla attacks are mounting on US troops - special forces soldiers have been killed in recent weeks, while 11 civilians died yesterday in an American air raid - and the likelihood of credible elections next year appears to be close to zero.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,933487,00.html
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 07:20 am
This had to be the same guy that came up with the color alert code.


Edinburgh Evening News
Sat 12 Apr 2003
printer friendly printer friendly email this article email article
Regime 'deck of death' for soldiers

ALLIED soldiers armed with decks of playing cards featuring pictures of Saddam Hussein and dozens of his henchmen were today scouring Iraq to catch them dead or alive.


http://www.edinburghnews.com/international.cfm?id=429302003
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 07:25 am
Quote:
If the philosophical side of Berman's liberal battle-cry is oddly illiberal, what about the state of America's world revolution on the ground? So far US policy has fallen short of Lincoln's ideals. Even as the stated aims in the Iraqi war are to bring freedom and democracy to the Iraqi people, other dictatorships (Pakistan, Turkmenistan, and an assortment of other Stans) are coddled as prized allies; the Russians are barely criticized for demolishing Chechnya; human rights in China are hardly even mentioned anymore; and when Turks or Brazilians exercise their democratic rights to vote for leaders or policies that the American administration doesn't like, they get chastised for doing so. Clearly democratic revolution is rather a selective business.

This is sometimes unavoidable. Even, or indeed especially, the United States, as a superpower, needs to make shabby deals, bribe unsavory leaders, and compromise to protect its interests. It would, of course, be desirable if the US did more to promote freedom and democracy, wherever and whenever it can, but it is precisely the penchant of the current administration to blur realpolitik with revolutionary zeal, to bribe and twist arms with trumpeting blasts of self-righteousness, that provokes so much resistance in the world. The idea, moreover, that democracy can be established by military invasion is not bolstered with much historical evidence.

Apologists for the current US government keep on reminding us of Germany and Japan, but these examples are widely off the mark. To start, both countries attacked the US with their own military forces first. The Allies did not fight to build Japanese and German democracies, but to defend themselves. Secondly, the US did not create German or Japanese democracies from scratch. Both countries were modern nation-states, which once had flawed but functioning democratic institutions, with parliaments, political parties, independent judges, vigorous newspapers, and so on. Things went horribly wrong in the 1930s, to be sure, but what was needed in 1945, and indeed carried out with great American humanity and skill, was a restoration job, not a revolution.

Again, one does not have to be a hard-boiled "realist" to see that bringing democracy to Iran, Saudi Arabia, or North Korea with military force would be a very different proposition. The US may be exceptional in many respects, but the belief of its more zealous officials, and intellectual cheerleaders, in a national destiny to dispatch American armies to remake the world in its own image is by no means unique. Others have been down that route, and not everything they did was ignoble: think of Napoleon's emancipation of the Jews. But eventually such missions always come to grief, leaving ruins where they meant to build utopias.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/16211
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 07:42 am
Breaking News: Big doins' in Baghdad

Two Uniformed Iraqi Officials have arrived at Palestine Hotel, one of whom has been identified as a "General of Police", and incidentally, on the "Deck of Cards". Details are sketchy, but it appears perhaps some sort of "Official Surrender" may be in progress. Updates and expansions sure to follow.
0 Replies
 
frolic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 07:45 am
timberlandko wrote:
Breaking News: Big doins' in Baghdad

Two Uniformed Iraqi Officials have arrived at Palestine Hotel, one of whom has been identified as a "General of Police", and incidentally, on the "Deck of Cards". Details are sketchy, but it appears perhaps some sort of "Official Surrender" may be in progress. Updates and expansions sure to follow.


News comes from a German TV station.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 07:47 am
The other Uniformed Official has been tentatively identified as a major figure in the Regime's Military Scientific community. Veeeeerrrrrrry EEEEEN-teresting.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 07:50 am
The "Wack This Jack From Iraq" cards are very nice, and a great memento like Mao doll piggy-banks or 'Would you guys a car from this man' bumper stickers, but I'd prefer one of those ball-point pens where you turn them upside down and Chemical Ali gets down to his undies.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 07:56 am
How to blow a lead n the ninth ......





Turkey Shoot
How Bush made enemies of our allies.
By Paul Glastris
Posted Monday, March 17, 2003, at 2:27 PM PT

Illustration by Mark Alan Stamaty

"There are no double-blind studies in diplomacy, so we can never know for certain if a president's strategy for a given crisis is wise or if a different one might have worked better. Occasionally, however, history throws up a comparison that is so apt that it can serve as a pretty reasonable test. If, for instance, you want to know whether the collapse of George W. Bush's efforts to gain international support for war on Iraq is the inevitable result of difficult circumstances and intransigent allies or a fundamentally flawed strategy, consider the following comparison."




http://slate.msn.com/id/2080262/
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 08:04 am
General Amer Hammoud al-Saadi ... a biggie indeed, but #55 In the Deck. He is reportedly head of Iraq's "Special Weapons" organization. Still, it is reasonable to assume he knows the others, and may have and be willing to divulge information regarding at least some of the others. This promises to develop into Major News, in which, incidentally, Tikrit may develop into a non-starter ... probes and other intel show little if any organized resistance. A major battle may be shaping up at Al Qaim, near the Syrian border. US ground forces are moving toward the area.

The Navy may be returning two or three Carrier Battle Groups to their US bases "In Next few days", according to TV news sources. This agrees with e-mail information I've received in the past several hours. I wonder how many of the Hollywood Negatavists will show up for The Big Crow Feast.
0 Replies
 
frolic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 08:10 am
This is the man

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38622000/jpg/_38622369_alsaadi100av_ap.jpg

This isn't the Jackpot. He is not really top of the bill.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 08:13 am
Cards
Blatham .... actually those pens that you mentioned are a hot item in Iraq ... they have pictures of Iraqi women and when you turn them upside down their veils slide down ..... woo woo Very Happy Very Happy
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 08:16 am
The Rumor Mill is clanking away. There are indications more Ba'ath Party Officials will be showing up over the next few hours.
There also are indications that the reconstruction of an indiginous police authority may be underway, apparently at least in Baghdad and in Basrah. There are similar rumors floating around about An Najaf and Al Kut, but we know how reliable "First Reports" are. Whatever this means, "Developments" seem to be going on.


Edit to add note: Over 70 newswire updates concerning these events have hit my inbox over the past half hour or so ... whether or not this is "Really Big", lots of folks seem to think it might be.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 08:27 am
A sampling of Reuters updates:


* U.S. sends reinforcements into Iraq; troops push into north Baghdad to attack suspected Iraqi army strongholds; U.S. says has worn down resistance around western town of Qaim

* U.S. troops move into Mosul, anarchy still reigns; Kurdish leader Talabani says Kurdish fighters will pull out of Kirkuk on Saturday; Arabs, Turkmen accuse Kurds of pillaging

* U.S. forces guard Baghdad water plant, major hospital, says Red Cross; U.S. plans dusk to dawn curfew to end looting

* Iraqis protest in Baghdad against breakdown in law and order; police volunteer to help end anarchy

* Saddam Hussein's top scientific adviser General Amer Hammoudi al-Saadi surrenders to U.S. forces, says German TV

* Baghdad couple say they saw Saddam's younger son Qusay alive after Monday bombing; U.S. troops stop busload of men fleeing Iraq
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 08:32 am
Associated Press Updates
April 12, 2003 14:28 GMT

For Immediate Release:

As looting persisted Saturday across Iraq, U.S. officials said they will send 1,200 police and judicial officers to help restore order. U.S. commanders indicated the last major military challenge, taking Saddam Hussein's hometown, may be easier than expected thanks to desertions and relentless bombing.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 08:44 am
Catching up on posts from last nightÂ…

You know, timber has me thinking here...I mean about the Hanging Gardens, and sex thing.

Maybe we've all been setting about this the wrong way - this attempt to understand what's going on. Oil, corporate zest, daddy, the sword of Christ, even...maybe... that it's real boy scout stuff like they say it is.

Let's run with the thesis that we facilitated this activity in Iraq (to be forthright about this writer's bias - I agree with timber on the value of this proposed motivation) to the end of having more Iraqis happily humping amidst the suspended daffodils and bouganvillia.

This thesis would entail, obviously, a certain mindset amongst the principals involved. Paul Wolfowitz, in this schema, would be best interpreted as something of a 'sitting at the top of the mountain sex guru'. I find this ramification of the thesis more agreeable than any I've been able to come up with. Dick Cheney would be just a friendly, and oh so naughty, grandpa, his winkish head tilt in interviews now tantalizing us with what he's not saying, rather than frightening the bejesus out of us.

What, though, of George? This wasn't his idea...it was Paul's. So, why's George along on this one? How does the principal principal fit in our spanking-new thesis? A mid-life conversion to sexual liberation evangelism! On first glace, this may seem mad, a preposterous thesis. But we already know these guys think the opposite of what they say, so that's almost evidence our thesis is close. I'm going to go with this. It's way better than the alternative.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 08:48 am
From the BBC (15:31 GMT):
Vigilantes
As looting spread to new areas of Baghdad on Saturday, the US said it planned to send 1,200 law enforcement officials to help Iraq set up a new police force.
Just 80 Iraqi police officers have answered America's call to return to their jobs.
Correspondents say that in any event, the Americans are not in a position to pay their wages.
In some affluent neighbourhoods, residents have formed vigilante gangs to beat off looters targeting their properties.
The ICRC, meanwhile, says it is extremely alarmed at Baghdad's medical services, which it says are in a state of near collapse.
ICRC spokesman Pascal Jansen said that out of the 32 hospitals in Baghdad, only three were partially operating.
At one city centre hospital, the BBC interviewed a doctor wearing a surgical mask and gown and carrying a Kalashnikov.
He said he had had to fight off looters, who were "coming like rats".


-----------------

US defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, yesterday said looting was part of the transition process.

A German correspondant just reported -as eye-witness- that lots of exhibition pieces are carried out the museums in Bagdad.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 08:50 am
Blatham -- Isn't Bohemian Grove out your way somewhere?
0 Replies
 
frolic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 08:51 am
Walter, and thats why this makes me so angry. People are dying because all medical aid is stolen. And all the US soldiers protect in an empty building of the ministry of oil. Disgusting.


frolic wrote:
Watching the news made me angry again. The journalist showed us pictures of the looting.
Hospitals looted
German embassy =>looted
Private houses of the leadership=>looted
Ministry of information=>looted
Ministry of trade=>looted

All the ministries were looted except one. Heavily guarded with tanks and armoured vehicles. the ministry of OIL

So people are dying because the US soldiers stood by while the looters took all they could lay there hands on. Saying it was impossible to protect all the buildings.

Why did they protect the ministry of OIL instead of the biggest hospital in Bagdad? Medical staff and civilian volunteers are defending some of Baghdad's hospitals with guns so bad has the looting become, a BBC correspondent reports. Why dont the move the troops away from an empty building and to the hospitals in order to protect at least these from the looters?
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 09:05 am
Just some thoughts here ...

The looting is just about an inevitability given the instantaneous power vacuum. While it is interesting, and not altogether dismaying to note that looting has been chiefly directed toward Regime-related facilities, it is puzzling and dismaying to note also that Hospitals and Museums have felt the wrath of the mob as well. I expect that says a lot about The Regime, and the perception of it among the populace at large.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 09:13 am
Hmmmmm ... an only-occasionally reliable source is fronting the idea that this morning's "Big Surrender" was orchestrated by the Baghdad staff of the German TV network which broke the story. It is alledged the deal took "a couple days to set up", and may have been intended to have had more Iraqi participants than showed up.
0 Replies
 
 

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