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The US, UN & Iraq II

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 10:35 pm
timber, You can pound your chest on this one! Wink c.i.
0 Replies
 
trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 11:38 pm
Lola wrote:
ok, so I looked back and I did say that, but I didn't mean it. We can change my "no" to "very little" compared to the amount of propaganda being broadcast hourly.

Fair enough lola. As I wrote, my experience does not match yours, so we may have different opinions. nimh seems to have gotten a more balanced view of American media by comparing our two opinions, so let's call it a win-win.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2003 12:05 am
It's a deal, Tres. Good night.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2003 01:39 am
Can't say these aren't on topic ;o))


What is the Iraqi air force motto?
I came, I saw, Iran.

Have you heard about the new Iraqi air force exercise program?
Each morning you raise your hands above your head and leave them there.

What's the five-day forecast for Baghdad?
Two days.

What do Miss Muffet and Saddam Hussein have in common?
They both have Kurds in their way.

What is the best Iraqi job?
Foreign ambassador.

Did you hear that it is twice as easy to train Iraqi fighter pilots?
You only have to teach them to take off.

How do you play Iraqi bingo?
B-52 ... F-16 ... B-52

What is Iraq's national bird?
Duck.

What do Saddam Hussein and General Custer have in common?
They both want to know where the heck those Tomahawks are coming from!

Why does the Iraqi navy have glass bottom boats?
So they can see their air force.
0 Replies
 
frolic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2003 04:31 am
Letter to the editor of the Times

Sir,

How do we know that the giant statue of Saddam destroyed on Wednesday wasn't of one of his doubles?

Yours faithfully,
NEIL COOPER,
6 Chantry Road,
Birmingham B13 8DW.
April 9.


He has a point!
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2003 04:53 am
So where is Saddam?
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2003 06:14 am
Steve
Quote:
So where is Saddam?


He is hiding under Iraq.

I just wrote that :wink:

Perc: I've been gone a few days. congratulations on your crystal clear prediction and you are also correct about the current and future difficulties regarding Iraqi infighting.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2003 06:36 am
iraq
Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy goodun Joe
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2003 06:38 am
Someone saiid they saw Saddam working at a 7/11
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2003 06:42 am
Some very careful and lovely posts since I've looked in. Tartarin...your last post is as moving a celebration of the US as I've read in a long while and beautifully written. Dys...your post on Noriega etc is as moving an indictment of the US as I've read in a while (NC?) And frolic's paste of that very funny Brit's letter gets the rare blue star.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2003 06:43 am
Actually unless I miss my bet Saddam arrived in Syria on 03/20/03 early am.
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2003 07:03 am
Saddam all over again.
Dejavu all over again!

Analysis: Iraqi opposition established

By HUSSAIN HINDAWI
From the International Desk
Published 4/11/2003 7:56 AM
View printer-friendly version

LONDON, April 11 (UPI) -- Shortly after U.S. tanks rolled into Baghdad, toppling Saddam Hussein's Baath regime, Iraqi opposition groups rushed to boost their presence at home amid speculation that a transitional Iraqi government might be formed next week under U.S. auspices.

The assassination of Shiite leader Majid al-Khoei in An Najaf on Thursday dealt a harsh blow to the Iraqi opposition and the suicide attacks against coalition troops in Baghdad further complicated the situation on the field. But such events are bound to prompt Washington and London to help set up a transitional government as quickly as possible. Fifteen opposition leaders are expected to attend a meeting Saturday in the southern town of An Nasiriyah during which a temporary government might be declared.

Despite confusion and worries stemming from the existing chaos and power vacuum, Iraqis are largely relieved by the toppling of the Baath dictatorship. Many Iraqi exiles are returning home, including leading opposition figures, while others, including former Baathists, were waiting for the situation to clear up.

In the meantime, opposition groups are competing to win over popular support and recognition by publishing their political programs in Arab newspapers and on internet sites. It is clear that they all hope for a system of free elections, under which public liberties would be released, including the freedom of expression, forming political parties and unions and publishing private newspapers of which Iraqis have been deprived since the Baath party captured power in 1968.

The popular base of old non-Kurdish political parties which were prominent 35 years ago, including the Islamic Daawa (call) Party and the Communist Party, still remain unknown. But the two parties which strongly opposed the U.S. invasion of Iraq are bound to face difficulties to re-establish and reaffirm themselves. The same applies to the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq led by Baker al-Hakim which Washington wants to marginalize due to its strong links with Iran.

Al-Hakim is trying to promote himself as the representative of Iraqi Shiites, but many Shiite groups do not recognize him as such. In the meantime, Washington is trying to find alternative representatives of the Shiite community, which constitutes 60 percent of the Iraqi population.

Until things clear up, opposition groups seem to share the same concern, namely reset foot inside the country and rally popular support. That also applies to Kurdish, Turkemen and Assyrian as well as secular groups.

In addition to Al-Khoei who had just returned from London to Iraq, the leader of the Iraqi National Congress Ahmed Chalabi arrived in An Nasiriyah at the head of a group of his partisans. The former chief of the Iraqi intelligence Gen. Wafic al-Samarai has reportedly arrived in Erbil in north Iraq, and the CIA has reportedly moved former Iraqi army commander Gen. Nizar al-Khazirgi secretly from Norway where he was under house arrest, to Kuwait.

Former Baathist journalist Saad al-Bazaz started publishing his private newspaper al-Zaman from the south of "liberated" Iraq, while scores of Iraqi exiled began arriving in Kuwait and Iraq's Kurdistan hoping that a new page was turned in Iraq's political history.

Despite deep worries about Iraq's future and lack of confidence in U.S. promises that the Iraqis will be left free to rule themselves and exploit their huge natural wealth, there is a strong common conviction that the dictatorship will not return to Iraq, especially that the U.S. administration seems keen on spreading an atmosphere of liberalism in the country.

But differences between power centers inside the United States are bound to complicate things. While the Pentagon supports Chalabi's INC, the State Department is not keen on giving him a major role in post-Saddam Iraq as it prefers the National Reconciliation Movement of Iyad Allawi and the grouping of Independent opposition leaders led by Adnan Pachachi.

Chalabi was sparing no effort to win legitimacy for his party. He rushed to Iraq a week after the outbreak of the war at the head of 700 of his partisans to provide humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people and help restore law and order in the liberated areas. At the same time, the INC started a campaign to set up the so-called "Forces of Liberated Iraq" in the south and center of the country urging Iraqis to enlist.

Before his assassination, al-Kkoei announced that he was administering the affairs of Najaf for a temporary period with the help of 700 local youth. He said he established a local committee to help secure law and order in other liberated provinces in cooperation with local tribes leaders.

Competition between the traditional and new Iraqi opposition factions remains the main reason behind the weakness of these groups which lack popular base inside Iraq. The Iraqi opposition has suffered from chronic weaknesses and schisms for decades due to personal ambitions, sectarian and ethnic interests and the absence of clear political programs.

Copyright © 2001-2003 United Press International
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2003 07:25 am
Who was it that said 'it ain't over til it's over'?

Fears for the future

The assassination of a revered Shia Muslim cleric is symptomatic of the growing uncertainty following recent celebrations in Baghdad, says Brian Whitaker

Friday April 11, 2003

Following 24 hours of victory celebrations in Baghdad, there are fears today that the war, far from ending, could simply be moving into a far more intractable low-intensity phase in which bunker-busting bombs and other hi-tech weapons are of little use.

Yesterday, a particularly bad sign was the killing, in Iraq's holiest Shia mosque, of Abdul Majid al-Khoei, a US-backed cleric who had been living in exile in London until last week. It is unclear whether his death was the work of Saddam Hussein loyalists or a rival Shia group but, either way, the implications are alarming.

Mr al-Khoei was the son of Ayatollah Sayed al-Qasim al-Khoei, the leader of much of the Shia world until 1992 when he died, under house arrest, in Najaf.

The importance of his murder may be difficult to appreciate in countries in which religious leaders carry little political weight, but the closest British parallel is probably with Thomas Becket, the Archishop of Canterbury who, 833 years ago, was assassinated for supporting the authority of the Pope over King Henry II.

There was also another suicide bombing last night, when a man wearing an explosives-packed vest attacked a US checkpoint in Saddam City, the Shia suburb of Baghdad. Conflicting reports of casualties ranged from four US marines wounded to several dead.

Overnight, Iraqi gunmen, apparently from Shia slums in eastern Baghdad, fought a fierce hour-long battle with Fedayeen paramilitaries loyal to Saddam, according to US military sources and a Reuters news agency report.

So far, there has been no serious effort to stop the looting in Baghdad. US officials expect it to fizzle out naturally when there is nothing left to loot, although reports that Iraqis have even been stripping electrical wiring from buildings suggest that it may continue for some time.

If the experience in Basra is anything to judge by, this spontaneous crimewave could be followed by a more organised phase as armed gangs move in. Before the war, US and British planners had hoped that enough of Iraq's administration and security forces would be left intact to keep the country running but, in key places, they have either been destroyed or gone underground.

This should be less of a problem in the north, where the Kurds have been governing themselves for years, and are well organised. Elsewhere, the situation in smaller Iraqi towns which have not been touched by the war is largely unknown, and may be salvageable.

However, in areas such as Baghdad, in which all government has evaporated, there are now three basic choices:

1. Restoration of Ba'athists from the middle and lower ranks, assuming that they can be found and are willing to serve. This carries the risk of reinstating old patterns of misrule and corruption.

2. The development of local fiefdoms based around tribal or religious figures who are capable of maintaining order, but may turn out to be no less tyrannical than the previous regime.

3. Rebuilding the system from scratch, which would take months of recruitment and training.

All these factors point to the need for a prolonged US and British presence, which opponents will characterise as "occupation", as the Syrian government did yesterday.

Attacks by mujahideen, and possibly underground Ba'athists, will seek to push the US and British towards repressive measures in order to justify the term "occupation" and encourage others to join the struggle against it.

The model here is the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the 80s, and the resistance to it. This, in the eyes of Islamists, not only led to the creation of al-Qaida, but also brought about the collapse of a superpower. The strategy is clear, although it's much too early to judge whether it has any chance of succeeding in Iraq.

George Bush and Tony Blair both gave speeches (dubbed into Arabic) on the new Towards Freedom TV station yesterday although, with no electricity in most of Baghdad, it is doubtful whether many people could have watched it.

Mr Blair promised to see the war through to the end. Mr Bush said that the US would respect Iraq's "great religious traditions, whose principles of equality and compassion are essential to Iraq's future".

In northern Iraq early today, US and Kurdish forces reportedly captured Mosul, Iraq's third city, without a fight. Kurdish paramilitaries have promised to hand over the important oil city of Kirkuk to US troops later today.

Kirkuk, the traditional capital of the Kurds, was taken by a mixture of Kurdish guerrillas and US special forces yesterday, but neighbouring Turkey, fearful of increased Kurdish power, has been insisting that the Kurds must not be allowed to keep it.

There is growing debate on the internet about the toppling of Saddam Hussein's statue in Baghdad, and the extent to which it was stage-managed for the TV cameras.

Numerous Guardian readers have pointed out an aerial photograph of the scene, showing how small the crowd was. However, it is not known at what point the photograph was taken.

The picture is broadly consistent with remarks about the size of the crowd made by a BBC reporter who was on the spot at the time.

There are claims that the US flag draped over the statue's head was one that had been flying over the Pentagon at the time of the September 11 terrorist attacks, although this may just be a rumour.

The Iraqi flag produced after the stars and stripes appears to have been carefully selected. It was not the current flag, but the pre-1991 design. Shortly before the 1991 Gulf war, Saddam Hussein had the words Allahu Akbar (God is greatest) inserted between the stars, and these were missing from the flag used on Wednesday.

Discussion of this "defining moment" looks set to continue, and any further information will be welcome.

Email
[email protected]
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2003 07:41 am
Thi is an excellent article but prertty long .... if you start rerading it you will finish it.

There is no point in winning the war to lose the peace. Military power cannot be used without political constraint, which limits its indiscriminate application. The objective of war is not merely to kill, but to impose political control by force. Therein lies the weakest part of the US war plan to date. The plan lacks a focus of what political control it aims to establish. The US has not informed the world of its end game regarding Iraq, beyond the removal of Saddam Hussein. The idea of a US occupational governor was and is a laughable non-starter.


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/ED05Ak01.html
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2003 07:54 am
a
Whoa ..... serendipity at it's best ..... enjoy


http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/business/technology/5520037.htm
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2003 08:00 am
Did anyone notice the legislation passed a few weeks ago expressing concern with the lack of freedom in IraN?
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c108:1:./temp/~c108dZ5Ahc::
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c108:3:./temp/~c108dZ5Ahc::

and Syria:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c108:1:./temp/~c108Gm0xYY::
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2003 08:02 am
Re "The flags on the statue"; Careful examination of the video footage shows both flags were given to the Marines by an Iraqi civilian at the base of the statue. There appears to have been a bit of discussion, then the US flag was draped and the photo op was taken. There followed a briefer discussion between Iraqi civilians and Marines on the ground at the side of the recovery vehicle, then the old-style Iraqi flag got its photo op. No dispute it was an ill considered gesture, but it seems to have been an Iraqi gesture. The Marines just helped.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2003 08:26 am
I didn't realize (or didn't remember!) that the US deliberately bombed the Al Jazeera office in Afghanistan, as well as Baghdad.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2003 08:35 am
They also bought up all the satellite coverage. When Bush said this was a new kid of war, he meant it.


Military Buys Exclusive Rights to Space Imaging's Pictures of Afghanistan War Zone
By John J. Lumpkin
Associated Press
posted: 04:35 pm ET
15 October 2001

WASHINGTON (AP) _ The U.S. military is paying for the exclusive rights to commercial satellite imagery of Afghanistan even though its own satellites are thought to take far better pictures.

This could serve two purposes: to provide an extra eye on Afghanistan, and to prevent anyone else from peeking at the war zone.

The images of the Ikonos satellite, among the best available to the public, will add to those collected by military satellites and airplanes, Joan Mears, a spokeswoman for the National Imagery and Mapping Agency, said.


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Mears declined to discuss how much the government is paying for the pictures, only saying that the agency has paid for exclusive access to the area involved in Operation Enduring Freedom, the military code name for the strikes in Afghanistan.

The agency's contract with Denver-based Space Imaging Inc. began Oct. 7 and is believed to be in the multimillion-dollar range.

A Space Imaging executive said the U.S. government had recently signed a large contract with his company, not only buying exclusive rights to the imagery but also paying for all the time that the satellite is over the target area.

This serves to prevent anyone else from using Ikonos to take pictures of the war zone. It also prevents Space Imaging from selling the pictures to anyone else, which the company does with most of its imagery.

Mark Brender, executive director of government affairs and corporate communications for Space Imaging, declined to reveal the amount of the contract but said ``it was a wonderful business transaction.''

Top-of-the-line Ikonos pictures have one-meter resolution, meaning the satellite can distinguish features on the ground one meter in size or larger.

``You can count the cars in a parking lot, tell which are pickups and sedans, and tell what color they are,'' Brender said.

Ikonos pictures can cost buyers up to dlrs 200 per square kilometer of imagery, he said. Quick turnaround costs an extra dlrs 3,000, he said.

The resolution achieved by U.S. military satellites is kept secret, but it is probably about 10 times better than Ikonos can provide, said Steven Aftergood, a government secrecy analyst and intelligence expert with the Federation of American Scientists, a Washington-based watchdog group. He estimated military satellites can take pictures that distinguish objects as small as 10 centimeters in size.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2003 08:47 am
Quote:
"Re "The flags on the statue"; Careful examination of the video footage shows both flags were given to the Marines by an Iraqi civilian at the base of the statue"


The Stars and Stripes used by US Marine Corporal Ed Chin to cover the statue in Baghdad's Firdos Square was under the debris at the Pentagon following the September 11 al-Qaeda terrorist attack.
It was given to Marine First Lieutenant Tim McLaughlin at the Pentagon. In Firdos Square, he handed the flag to Cpl Chin, who climbed a giant statue of Saddam and draped it over the deposed dictator's head - a moment that will be etched in history.
0 Replies
 
 

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