The US, UN & Iraq II

http://www.iraqbodycount.net now has between 433 and 541 repoorted civilian deaths in the war on Iraq, more than the 320 the SJ Mercury News estimated.

They don't do military deaths, though. 70 coalition military, 1,215 Iraqi soldiers, huh. Ratio of 1:17. Would be about typical for a US-led war, I'd say. The ratio for the media attention about them would probably be the other way around, even here in Europe.

The BBCTicker is really neat. Keeping up with the news made simple. Thx, c.i.

BBC interviewer: What do you make of General Franks' statement that what has been done thus far is a 'remarkable achievement'?

Correspondent in the Gulf: "I thought it was an exercise in robust reassurance."

;-)

Did anyone catch "60 Minutes" tonight? A Shiite Muslim was interviewed...someone who was in Southern Iraq in '93 when the insurrection against Saddam was put down and we left them to their fate. The word is (paraphrased)..."They hate Americans! Do not look for them to offer you flowers and candy."

nimh, I'm not sure how old the numbers are that the newspaper provided in this mornings paper. With all the bombing going on daily in Baghdad and elsewhere, I'm sure numbers are always changing - upwards very quickly. c.i.

gelisgesti,

Thanks for the BBC news ticker.

That was Al Haikem. They profiled him in the New Yorker about a month ago.

VNN

I won't say much about the Vietnam war except that I was there and I volunteered in 1965. We were there for the right reason(to stop the spread of communism) but the then gov't of LBJ could not articulate that reason and instead was evasive and defensive. They lied about the conduct of the war because they would not admit that they were frightened out of their wits of the prospect of China coming the aid of the North Vietnamese. Therefore the US military was not allowed to fight the war to win---I was very disallusioned about this. I also did not see the blood an gore that you saw if you were actually a nurse in Vietnam and I'm not doubting you I just don't know your actual history.

Back to the topic of your signature--when you write something as critical as that it implies to me that you have some answers. While idealistic slogan type rhetoric may seem useful to you (to make people think) it is of little practical help.

You also wrote:

<I know there are many on this thread that were in the service and were in Vietnam. We were lied to then...what makes you so trustful of this president.>

I am very suspicious of eloquent "slick tongued" politicians. Bush is definitely not eloquent and he is conducting himself exactly like a man who has very strong resolve and convictions. I see a man who probably already realizes that he has lost the election and it has not deflected his resolve to do what he has set out to do. I firmly believe that as long as he is President he will not let the French have one word of persuasion in the aftermath of the war and Russia's Putin is not a man to be trusted as Bush first thought.

If we must deal militarily with North Korea he will not ask the UN's permission to do so----

Nimh wrote:

By sentencing dictators there instead of killing them we both get rid of them and keep the values of our own system intact.

I'm not saying that it's possible to just walk into Iraq and ask Hussein to please come along. But in terms of "proven methods for dealing with people who love to kill", I think the Milosevic route is what our future should be about. I'd rather see Hussein in jail than dead, at the end of this war - it's more humiliating and thus politically more effective, too, refusing him the status of martyr - although I understand, of course, that chances are rather slim on that.


Nimh

I'm very glad you realized we counldn't just send a telegram to Saddam telling him to show up in court-----c'mon man your naivete is astounding but very similar to many on this forum.

nimh, as regards your post of Sun Mar 30, 2003 11:30 am, in which you state:

" OK, so the consensus seems to be that the US/British "top brass" is rapidly redrafting strategies, now that the first, Rumsfeld-dictated, campaign tactics have not quite worked according to plan.

Sorry to be a bit short here - but we can continue to cheer over his apparent defeat, and point out a few times more how "we coulda told him so" and "the critics were always right"; "

Apparently I am not the only one on this thread that feels there has been continued cheering about this administration's perceived failures, although I used a different term to describe my observation.

Respectfully,

JM

Joe Nation wrote:

What shall we have on our words when we have to eat them?

Joe

If I have to eat mine, I like lots of regular old American mustard.
You know, the kind we have on the 4th of July with hotdogs and hamburgers and fireworks.

BTW----I want to remind everyone that this war is exactly 11 days old. How long before Kabul fell in Afghanistan? As I remember everyone was asking the same sort of questions about that little action.

You had another question:

Question: why is it that you persist in asking your questions through a sneer?

I try very hard to reserve my best sneer for my favorite Bush Bashers----Tartarin treats me the same way ---- terms of endearment ---haven't you noticed?

Mark Twain's War Prayer:

O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with their little children to wander unfriended through wastes of their desolated land in rags & hunger & thirst, sport of the sun-flames of summer & the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave & denied it -- for our sakes, who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask of one who is the Spirit of love & who is the ever-faithful refuge & friend of all that are sore beset, & seek His aid with humble & contrite hearts. Grant our prayer, O Lord & Thine shall be the praise & honor & glory now & ever, Amen."

Kara

That's the trouble with people who write instead of fight----I can say it much faster----better them than us and I would bet that you want to be one of US.

Ok I'm back....
CI I see you are up and running with the ticker but .... let me make that a big BUT...... ya gotta try 'Desktop News'. Five minute down load .... one screen registration (free program) after which you can go down your favorite up to the minute news sources. Don't forget to check out the utility bar on the left side.
AM I EXCITED ..... BOY O BOY AM I!!!!!

You are welcome Kara but try desktop news

http://www.desktopnews.com/

Better THEM than US? Are they not us, are we not them? I see the world as one humanity. Do you really see Bush or our administration as the divine sword striking in the name of truth and goodness? How totally extraordinary. There can never be a conversation between us.

well yeah Perception we beat the socks off of Grenada saving the land of the free and the brave.

Shee-it, Doug. I ain't got that many stocks....

Dys

What are you babbling about boy!?

Kara

Your ivory tower is way up in the clouds now----are you sure you want to live way up there?

Ya gotta set it up ...... ah say ah say ya gotta personalize it personalize it ah say .....

upper right corner, click on desktop news and select preferences ..... I took out everything but news .....when you want to change select 'my channels and go with what you want to see ......ya gotta personalize ....