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The US, UN & Iraq II

 
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2003 09:15 am
# SEOUL (Reuters) - North Korea vowed on Saturday to resist all international demands on the communist state to allow nuclear inspections or agree to disarm, saying Iraq had made this mistake and was now paying the price...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=578&e=6&cid=578&u=/nm/20030329/ts_nm/korea_north_iraq_dc



Bit different from running Texas huh George ....
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2003 09:16 am
Wilso, I was able to see the pictures last night and I am still able to see them today. Go figure, Smile
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2003 09:17 am
A Russian assessment

Quote:
During the nine days of the war the coalition has failed:

- to divide Iraq in half along the An-Nasiriya - Al-Ammara line,
- to surround and to destroy the Iraqi group of forces at Basra,
- to create an attack group between the Tigris and the Euphrates with a front toward Baghdad,
- to disrupt Iraq's military and political control, to disorganize Iraq's forces and to destroy the main Iraqi attack forces.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2003 09:20 am
side note....

Several days ago, the US community lost Patrick Daniel Moynihan, one of the great Americans of the last century. It is a loss I grieve deeply.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2003 09:24 am
this in addition to my last post, not blathams

Do not despair

from

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2898003.stm

Quote:
British forces say they have staged a raid into the southern city of Basra to destroy a statue of Saddam Hussein.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2003 09:26 am
He was born in Oklahoma not Arizona... and yes, it does matter.

Thanks blatham!
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2003 09:29 am
Corporate moves into post-war Iraq...
Quote:
To the victor go the spoils
If U.S. corporations get their way, none of their European competitors will be doing business in Baghdad.
March 29, 2003 | It's the latest question about Iraq, debated from myriad war blogs to the pages of Friday's Wall Street Journal: When Saddam Hussein is toppled, what kind of cellular phone system should Iraq have?

Maybe that's not ultimately as important as such questions as whether preemptive wars are morally justifiable or if there will be a "domino democracy" chain reaction in the Mideast unleashed by regime change. But it's a good sign of what one of the biggest postwar battles will be fought over: Who gets to rebuild Iraq, and how?


On Wednesday, Darrel Issa, a Republican congressman from Southern California, sent a letter to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld asking him to make sure that the U.S. builds a CDMA cell system in Iraq -- the same system that's used in America, and one developed by Qualcomm, which happens to be one of Issa's most generous donors. The Defense Department had apparently been thinking of setting up a GSM system in Iraq, but Issa warned Rumsfeld that such a system, which is the standard in Europe, and elsewhere in the Mideast, would benefit "French and European sources, not U.S. patent holders." On Thursday, Issa introduced a bill that would make his policy recommendations law. There are no official co-sponsors, but under the headline "Parlez-vous français?" on his Web site, a statement says that many lawmakers have already expressed their support for an American cellphone system in Iraq.

It's not clear if members of Congress -- many of whom, remember, were for telecom deregulation in the U.S. -- will want to mandate the cellphone standard of postwar Iraq. But even if Issa's bill isn't passed into law, its broad policy goal -- putting American firms at the front of the line in a Saddam-free Iraq -- already seems to be the Bush administration's attitude....
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2003/03/29/war_profiteering_two/index.html
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2003 09:36 am
And, there lies the #1 reason for going to War! Crying or Very sad
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2003 09:39 am
from the Economist

Quote:
During one spate of Israel-bashing at the UN, the same man who used to tick off this newspaper for misconstruing Virgil marched over to the Israeli ambassador. "**** 'em," he advised. Mr Moynihan could be prickly.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2003 09:42 am
Without taking a position on the propriety of the apparent US stance re the future of Iraq's telecom infrastructure, it should be noted that from a purely technical standpoint, the US-favored CDMA Digital Cellular Platform has technical characteristics which in fact better suit it to markets characterized by large areas of low population density and resultant minimal infrastructure availability than is the case with the older European GSM platform. This may admittedly have been an insignificant factor in the machinations which led to the choice, but nonetheless, its a factor.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2003 09:46 am
"...passionate and sincere statements of what you hope to be the case ..."

Kara -- We seem to have much the same perspective on this and we're both wrong and right! Everyone bases their passionate statements on what they hope for, to one extent or another.

Both my intellect and my moral sense are offended by military assessments of battle given from "our" side. But I also think those who believe in those assessments (and the military in general) are no less outraged by the thought that there are "real Americans" who would listen to, give credence to, any point of view which varies from the official, optimistic, and self-congratulatory.

I think many have lost touch with the very American fact that for every dang individual in this country there is -- and should be! -- a completely individual point of view whose expression is guaranteed by law. There is no "our side" in this nation except in the sense that I don't know a single American who wouldn't stand at our borders to defend this country if it were under attack. Literally -- not rhetorically -- under attack.

My impression is that the Bush administration and many of its supporters are pretty sure that "the American people" will support an overseas action if they are bombarded with "positive" information. I must admit I was afraid they were right. I'm really glad to see -- and nowhere more evident than in this thread! -- that they are wrong. There is some hope for American dignity and individuality!
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dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2003 09:50 am
Still, not only the poor iraquis will be cursed with the suffring caused by war, but also with US celular phone services :-)! as we slovaks say: "when you're poor, even your last soup will boil out of your pot".
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2003 10:12 am
Dag, Americans, being very naive and often klutzy, say "....when you spill the last of your very hot soup in your own lap...", which is precisely what we're up to right now!
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2003 10:20 am
Tartarin

You make an excellent observation

Quote:
There is no "our side" in this nation except in the sense that I don't know a single American who wouldn't stand at our borders to defend this country if it were under attack.


How sad American war planners did not build the "our side" factor into their equations when considering Iraq.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2003 10:35 am
timberlandko wrote:
A 4 to 6 day suspension of forward-directed offensive ground action has been announced.


Computer at home has crashed, so catching up at the office, but just had to not the phraseology here. That's military code, isn't it? So nobody will have any idea what they're talking about. Prolly means they've stopped.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2003 10:41 am
Steve, et al, Watch the US war planners back-tracking on the 'quick surrender' of the Iraqi military. c.i.
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JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2003 10:45 am
This in from GRU's site dated March 28, 2003, 1448hrs MSK (GMT +3),:

http://162.42.211.226/article2454.htm

BEGIN

" According to verified information, during the past 48 hours of the Iraqi counterattacks the coalition forces sustained the following losses: up to 30 killed, over 110 wounded and 20 missing in action; up to 30 combat vehicles lost or disabled, including at least 8 tanks and 2 self-propelled artillery systems, 2 helicopters and 2 unmanned aerial vehicles were lost in combat. Iraqi losses are around 300 killed, up to 800 wounded, 200 captured and up to 100 combat vehicles 25 of which were tanks. Most of the [ Iraqi ] losses were sustained due to the artillery fire and aerial bombardment that resumed by the evening of March 27 "

END

Although the Iraqi figures seem low, this is probably about right for the coalition (add 4 more Dead for recent suicide bomber). To re-cap, the GRU is like the U.S.'s DIA (Defense Intelligence Agency). This site is very interesting and supplies us with not only hard data on both sides' present war situation but a brief analysis of tactics, strategies, and weapon systems proficiency. The analysis is somewhat biased but combined with U.S. analysis might give us a clearer picture of the Iraq situation as is.

In studying the limited amount of info available and comments from those in the field and present military actions I have changed my mind as to the efficacy of what appears to have been the military's original strategy especially in the area of troop strength and specifically which Division should have been sent instead of or in combination with those in the initial advance.

Since I have always had a firm grasp of the obvious it is apparent to me that the failure to move the 4 ID in through Turkey is the root cause of what we see now for a number of reasons, one of which I have already stated the other being that it is probably our best suited Division for the task.

The outcome of this conflict is still not in doubt if the U.S. wants to win this conflict but due to Saddam troop's present strategy of hiding behind civilians or posing as such I see the distinct possibility of him hiding military weapon systems in amongst urban civilian populations. This raises the specter of many more civilian losses. If Saddam has not already done so we have hope to destroy these weapons, as timber has mentioned, either in place or especially if it is attempted to move them off the lines and back into Baghdad.

I see every body here is rejoicing that Richard Perle has been forced to resign the CHAIRMANSHIP of the Defense Policy Board. This is that civilian body that advises the Defense Dept about various things including which contractors to award defense contracts to. The flap, of course, is that Richard Perle, along with a bunch of other guys, are lobbyist for some of the very contractors that might be chosen by the Defense Dept for those contracts. Not only that but also this fact is not required by law to be publicly known. Is this a great country or what?

Well, we must put our party hats away. Mr. Perle may have resigned the chairmanship but he is still a member in good standing of the Defense Policy Board and still has Sec. Rumsfeld's ear. Pretty Slick! This from 28 Mar 2003 episode of "Now" with Bill Moyers on PBS, among other gems.

Respectfully,

JM
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2003 10:47 am
ci

keeping my eyes skinned!

Great to meet you last week btw, and thanks for the photos.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2003 10:48 am
Sharp observation, roger ... there is more nuance to military-speak directed toward the public than there is to Dr. Blix's commentary Rolling Eyes There usually is plenty of room for "See, that's what we really meant" no matter how the situation develops.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2003 10:54 am
They do back themselves into holes though. That's why there are so many Generals, too fall on them swords -

Generals don't die in battle, they die in front of journalists! Cool
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