The US, UN & Iraq II

frolic wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:
trespassers will wrote:
That's only because the Dutch are such lousy bear hunters. :wink:

The last wild bear was shot in The Netherlands in the Middle Ages, which proves exactly the opposite

And it also shows that you aren't familiar with the etnic groups in Europe. Not only the Dutch speak Dutch. Not only the French speak French and not only the Germans speak German.

Oh, bite my ***. It was a freakin' joke.

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Kara wrote:

trespasserswill,

I am not on your back. I was distressed to see the arrogance and cynicism that is displayed by stating the obvious, that we, with our overweening power, will destroy anything we set out to destroy.

We will liberate Iraq, having set out to liberate it.

I did not write "destroy".

I did not write "anything we set out to...".

I wrote of the absolute certainty of achieving victory in this war.

Your bias leads you to read into it that which is not there, and to make it something negative.

I guess you'd rather there was a chance our men and women might lose. Rolling Eyes

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JamesMorrison. I do not think there is any "glee" on the part of anyone that the Allied advanced has stalled or that the planers miscalculated. But it is obvious that the promised quick war, and joyful reception by the liberated Iraqi's will not occur. The Bush Administration has committed this nation's reputation, treasure and standing among the community of nations to an enterprise that I (and I will speak for no one else), consider of dubious value and validity. And in the process ripped apart the international structure that sustained the world community, however fitfully, for the past fifty or sixty years. I suspect that what you are sensing is a grim if not cynical confirmation of the doubts that many had about the rational for this war. An attitude that is directed not toward the troops now engaged but rather towards those theorist's and ideologues that brought us to our present condition

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trespassers will wrote:

Oh, bite my (we all know what was here). It was a freakin' joke.

Tut tut ... when one leads with one's ass, one may expect it to get kicked. Perhaps your sentiment might have been expressed as effectively but somewhat less perjoratively. A note to all ... remember, please, to differentiate between argument and arguer. This is exactly how flame wars get started. There is no need to bite your tongues, but there is no justification for spitting at one another. Lets mind our manners. Thank you.

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Acquiunk, howdy ... welcome to A2K. If you'd like help figuring things out around here, just holler. Glad to have you aboard, and glad to help you figure out the bells and whistles of the website. Down at the bottom of my posts are color-formatted links to the A2K FAQ and to our help forum. Please jump right in and poke around.

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James

you write

Quote:

....posters hint at some glee with reports coming from Iraq that the U.S. has "miscalculated", "underestimated", or has "stalled" in its advance

.

Not me. I'm horrified and angry. We are paying in blood for the imbecillic mistakes of Rumsfeld Cheney Wolfowitz et al.

Quote:

The Americans have a different plan (for the storming of Baghdad) that has been practiced for years for just such an occasion so we must wait and see.

Probably by using chemical weapons. A war fought to rid Iraq of chemical weapons by using chemical weapons against them. But of course American chemical weapons are not chemical weapons, they are just illegal noxious substances that kill and maim.

Quote:

The underlying message is that there is no question that Saddam's forces will be defeated. Make no mistake, this is a given.

But the way its going Saddam will win even when he's dead. I'm surprised you can't see this.

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Once the Iraqi people see that Saddam and his thugs are neutralized we will finally see their true beliefs about Saddam and his regime and the scales will begin to fall from the nay Sayers eyes.

This is just wishful thinking on your part. The Iraqi people already know what they think about Saddam. They hate the bastard, but they hate being invaded more.

Quote:

The U.S. has no colonial aspirations...

Sure they dont! They are just fighting a war to colonise Iraq. And when the war is over Iraq will be free to do what any other free sovereign state may do so long as it obeys the American imperium. You may have deluded yourself on this one, but you don't kid me.

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Intercepted radio communications show that at around 0615hrs this morning the lead of a flight of two A-10 ground attack planes detected a convoy of armored vehicles. Unable to see any markings identifying these vehicles as friendly and not being able to contact the convoy by radio the pilot directed artillery fire to the coordinates of the convoy.

Later it was discovered that this was a coalition convoy. Thick layers of dust covered up the identification markings - colored strips of cloth in the rear of the vehicles. Electronic jamming made radio contact impossible. First reports indicated that the US unit lost 50 troops killed and wounded. At least five armored vehicles have been destroyed, one of which was an Abrams tank.

During the past day the coalition losses in this area [ Karabela and An-Najaf ] were 18-22 killed and up to 40 wounded. Most of the fatalities were sustained due to unexpected attacks by the Iraqi Special Forces against the coalition rears and against communication sites. This is a sign of the increasing diversionary and partisan actions by the Iraqis.

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Christopher Dickey (Middle East bureau, Newsweek) is being interviewed right now on Fresh Air, NPR, and is saying that from the Arab point of view, Iraq is the only country which has stood up to the US successfully and for that reason the whole region is on Iraq's side and very much against us. At best, he says, we will need some very good diplomacy to work through the aftermath...

He also points out that in France and elsewhere, there is very little anti-American sentiment but very strong anti-Bush sentiment. He contrasts that with the US tendency to demonize the country -- France -- rather than its leader -- Chirac.

Maybe the best thing the US has got going for it right now will turn out to have been the anti-war protesters who are, many of them, anti-Bush as well. They (we) may be the indication to other countries that there's hope, and that many Americans still feel a strong relationship with countries which Bush has slammed, that we have a common enemy.

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Oh, and Dickey says it was a major mistake on the part of Bush to use the word "crusade" in connection with an invasion in the mid-east. It still resonates there -- they are taking the use of the word very seriously. So there may be little hope of useful diplomacy coming from this administration.

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And one more thing from Dickey as the interview ended (he is stationed in Amman): The Arabs have a much greater choice of media now than they did in 1991 -- in addition to CNN they have a variety of Arab broadcasters. It emerges that they find more reliable (and Dickey seemed to believe) the television images and reports coming from Iraq TV more than they believe CNN. The Arab broadcasts seem to be more believable -- their reports seem to bear out over time to a greater degree. I'm going to try to catch the rebroadcast of Dickey -- we have poor reception right now (thank you NASA and the aurora) so I missed parts of it.

I don't think we should brush off this belief from outside that our media are less than reliable.

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Timberlandko, thank you I will poke around a bit

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timberlandko wrote:

trespassers will wrote:
Oh, bite my ***. It was a freakin' joke.

Tut tut ... when one leads with one's ass, one may expect it to get kicked. Perhaps your sentiment might have been expressed as effectively but somewhat less perjoratively. A note to all ... remember, please, to differentiate between argument and arguer. This is exactly how flame wars get started. There is no need to bite your tongues, but there is no justification for spitting at one another. Lets mind our manners. Thank you.

The "bite my ***" was a joke, too.

But if you prefer, I could change it to "kiss", or perhaps "nibble"? Very Happy

Love ya, Timber!

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You (all) can listen to the above mentioned interview online:

Fresh Air online: current show: Journalist Christopher Dickey

(On the left top of the page, click on "Listen to the current show".)

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"The enemy we have encountered is different from the one we have war-gamed against"

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blatham, in your post of Fri Mar 28, 2003 10:15 am you give a logical definition. What is your source? I have been trying to educate myself in logic and could use a condensed source of terms and definitions (Logic Dictionary?) Publications of web sites would be appreciated.

Thanks

JM

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I found an interesting site.

http://leb.net/IAC/

Dont say they are unbiased but they provide a different view on this war.

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Tresspassers, you left out 'lick' ;o))

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Interesting on this site today. I see the informers are still informing, the demonizers are still demonizing and the moderators are still moderating. At least some things remain constant!

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The UN Security Council just released a unanimous resolution on immediate humanitarian aid under the control of the UN. The full text not on the un web page yet, I will post a link as soon as I find it. Finally some mediocrely good news.

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Re my link (some pages back) about the "execution" of two British soldiers (which was said to have happened by Blair and Bush), now a British government minister has expressed regret over any hurt caused by Tony Blair's claim that two British soldiers were executed.
'Regret' over Blair execution comment

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The US, UN & Iraq II

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