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The Case of Pornography

 
 
tcis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 10:44 pm
Re: The Case of Pornography
NobleCon wrote:
I wish to know why is it that the development of modern pornography has evolved into the "slave-handling" of women that participate in it? The models that involve themselves degrade themselves into sex slaves without borders, and I find it revolting.

Is it anything more than abusive prostitution- money for sex-slavery?


NobleCon,

You said it above: "The models that involve themselves degrade themselves into sex slaves without borders, and I find it revolting."

They choose to do it!

Yes, sometimes they may feel trapped once they get into it. But I think the vast majority of them are not forced to do it.

In fact, some of them claim to (shudder) enjoy it!

***

You know who I feel more sorry for? Take the women in the same city as the the porn stars, working as a waitress for $5/hr + tips or something.

Some of them could have been porn stars. But they chose not to.

Please prove to me (us) that the porn women are being forced to do it.

Also, please prove to us that someone is keeping them from walking away, getting on a Greyhound bus, and getting a job as a waitress or something in a new town.

Do you have any proof of this slavery?

Because if you have proof of this slavery, you should notify the police immediately so that the guilty can be tried and convicted, and this slavery can come to an end.

Or does it all just go against your personal morals? Could it be that these women are doing it out of their own free will? (as much as this may disgust some of us)
0 Replies
 
tcis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 10:52 pm
NobleCon wrote:
A "normal" job, as with an accountant or a auto mechanic, does not require physical abuse in order for one to obtain a pay-check. One does not have to practically ingest a penis to the point of tears or "throwing-up" in order to pay the rent or purchase food.

Have you seen the acts performed by these men for the sake of "quality" adult filming?"


A football player gets injured or killed on the job. Has he been tortured and murdered? Take away the contract he signed and the money he got. At the moment his spine was severed and he was injured and died, wasn't he the equivalent of a gladiator-slave being sent to slaughter?

I almost think of these porn stars like pro athletes, or professional sex workers. Its like another job.

A long-term office worker develops carpal tunnel syndrome over the years and loses use of her hand. Take away the money she got and the contract she signed--doesn't this on-the-job injury amount to abuse and slavery?

The porn women know what they are getting into! How can you paint them to be victims? I just don't get it.

And if we are going to argue this, why just cry for the women?

What about gay porn and all the men it abuses? Aren't they also slaves?

And what about the pornos who show women dominating men, tying them up, etc? Shouldn't these women be sent to prison for enslaving the men?

And what of women who marry men for money? Shouldn't they be tried and convicted as being high end prostitutes? They are basically enslaving men to work for them to support them and give them money. The men are being used and abused.

Totally disagree with you on this. The porn women are not stupid. They know what they are getting into.

If they end up with some "rough" stuff in the act, its like a pro athlete getting injured in the game.

The athlete and the sport-sex star knew that came with the territory.
0 Replies
 
tcis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 11:04 pm
Yes, and women who have men pay for their dinners etc. on dates should be arrested for robbery.

Take away the social contract, and they are basically accepting money for vague promises of affection, companionship, or *gasp* sex.

And sometimes they accept these gifts even with the knowledge that they do not intend to reciprocate with any of the above.

What is wrong with women that they would be so deceitful?
0 Replies
 
tcis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 11:09 pm
NobleCon wrote:
But it "resembles" it, to say the least. Compare it to the pornography of the the 70's and 80's.


Dang, you seem to be an expert on the history of porn!

Are you a connoisseur? Twisted Evil

Because I have seen my share, but I wouldn't know an 80's porno from say, a 1999 porno except for maybe the hairstyles...

please enlighten!
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NobleCon
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 11:14 pm
No tcis, he was not the equivalenet of a gladiator-slave on his way to the slaughter...

As for your disagreement, I thank you for it. As matters of taste or sentiment, I expected nothing less. And I am not "painting them as victims." Please do not read me passively. It seems to me that, at times, some actresses resemble sex-slaves. Nothing more, nor less. How many times must I post this same remark? Not all actresses, not all pornography, not all venues.

These items you consider analogies to my position (from the quote in your reply) are not precise. Not to thrust myself into this reply (forgive the pun :wink: ), I will say this: the office worker, the football player, and the hollywood celebrity do not approach the sort of activity that is found in modern adult entertainment. Of course, we could improve your points, but only if, in some way, the employment- the activity- of an adult actress comes to approach precisely that of a football player or an office worker.
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tcis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 11:19 pm
NobleCon wrote:
What is wrong with this view of mine? That some actresses, whether on web-pages or video, or both, seem, at certain moments, to be treated as if they were indeed the slave to the man's full lot of sexual desires?


Here is what is wrong with your view:

Some women like to be treated like slaves! Men too, for that matter.
It appears you do not understand this.

Some women like it! Yes, it may seem like they are straining etc, at the moment, but some come back for it again and again!

I am sorry if that disgusts you or you can't accept that or whatever.

But it is true.

I have had women ask me to do such acts.

The strange thing seems to be, I'd venture to say MOST women like this type of thing once in awhile. Not all the time, but once in awhile.

So who are we to be disgusted by what they like and what they choose to do?

You almost come off as elitist or judgmental or holier than thou.

I noticed that in one of your first posts in this thread you stated "I was having a smoke."

I hope you weren't smoking in the presence of non-smokers. Because I find that particularly rude and disgusting.

Much more disgusting than pornos, which I can turn off and not be forced to breathe and get cancer from.
0 Replies
 
NobleCon
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 11:28 pm
The fact that some women enjoy sexual "slave" treatment is of no relevance to the external fact that it may resemble some sort of degree of abuse. What it "resembles" to an observer is not contained within "...some women may enjoy it."

Yes, everyone was smoking in the "dark room." That room approaches the equivalent of an opium room, but not exactly.
0 Replies
 
tcis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 11:31 pm
NobleCon wrote:
No tcis, he was not the equivalenet of a gladiator-slave on his way to the slaughter...


Why not?

If a porn star is a sex slave, by your reasoning, an athlete is a gladiator-slave. I see no difference.

***

Perhaps we are arguing semantics. Are you a philosophy major?

***

1. If you are simply saying that "it appears the women are looking like sex slaves and are enacting sex-slave type acts in some of the movies" I'd agree with that.

2. But if you are saying "they are in reality slaves and are being forced to do porn and these disgusting things against their will or without prior knowledge of what they are getting into" then I totally disagree.

Which statement above are you trying to make, 1 or 2?

Or is it 3? Because your original post seems much closer to #2, and I totally disagree with that one.
0 Replies
 
NobleCon
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 11:44 pm
tcis wrote:
NobleCon wrote:
No tcis, he was not the equivalenet of a gladiator-slave on his way to the slaughter...


Why not?

If a porn star is a sex slave, by your reasoning, an athlete is a gladiator-slave. I see no difference.

***

Perhaps we are arguing semantics. Are you a philosophy major?

***

1. If you are simply saying that "it appears the women are looking like sex slaves and are enacting sex-slave type acts in some of the movies" I'd agree with that.

2. But if you are saying "they are in reality slaves and are being forced to do porn and these disgusting things against their will or without prior knowledge of what they are getting into" then I totally disagree.

Which statement above are you trying to make, 1 or 2?

Or is it 3? Because your original post seems much closer to #2, and I totally disagree with that one.


I have attempted to say statement '1', which has developed into statement '2' by the replies of others. This is unfortunate, but I understand the reason for it. I should have rephrased my initial question...

"If a porn star is a sex slave, then by your reasoning, an athlete is a gladiator-slave."

No. Firstly, a porn star is not a sex slave; she may resemble one at times, either by her own volition or by the script, but not that she is one apart from that script. Secondly, the example of an athlete follows suit: he may resemble one, but not that he is one. Semantic indeed.

Actually, the errors in the replies of others on my point have come about because they have missed this vital mark.

I was a philosophy major. Now I write essays.
0 Replies
 
extra medium
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 11:54 pm
..
0 Replies
 
NobleCon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 12:00 am
Yes, of course we agree. I have attempted to say only that within certain venues such sexual acts carried out on the females "resemble" outright slave-handling. That is it. As for those extreme venues you mention, I am sure you can gather my own views on them.

Weird people, maybe; mentally deficient, most certainly.

You ask if anyone is turned on by "traditional" relations anymore? There are some out there...so I hope.
0 Replies
 
tcis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 12:57 am
Very good.

Thank you for explaining.

It appears that after all this, we pretty much agree after all! Twisted Evil

Thats funny. The vagaries of cyber-debate.

***

What I find a bit disgusting about the entire deal is the amount of bizarre twisted pornos that are out there. The slave thing is but one example.

What I am getting at is that I am continually amazed at some of the seemingly sick stuff that turns people on.

I mean this aside from the discussion of the lives of the actors. They are doing the job they chose (as much as some don't want to admit it).

I am just surprised at the number of golden shower, S&M, severe bondage, almost tortuous pornos out there.

I mean, for there to be this many of these things on the market, there must be a heck of a lot of people that are into this stuff.

We humans are a sick bunch!

Isn't anyone turned on by just one woman and one man having affectionate relations anymore?

Does there always have to be a whip or chain or handcuffs or a rubber ball involved? Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 06:37 am
tcis wrote:
Very good.

Thank you for explaining.

It appears that after all this, we pretty much agree after all! Twisted Evil

Thats funny. The vagaries of cyber-debate.

***

What I find a bit disgusting about the entire deal is the amount of bizarre twisted pornos that are out there. The slave thing is but one example.

What I am getting at is that I am continually amazed at some of the seemingly sick stuff that turns people on.

I mean this aside from the discussion of the lives of the actors. They are doing the job they chose (as much as some don't want to admit it).

I am just surprised at the number of golden shower, S&M, severe bondage, almost tortuous pornos out there.

I mean, for there to be this many of these things on the market, there must be a heck of a lot of people that are into this stuff.

We humans are a sick bunch!

Isn't anyone turned on by just one woman and one man having affectionate relations anymore?

Does there always have to be a whip or chain or handcuffs or a rubber ball involved? Twisted Evil


Perhaps there is so much of the stuff because folks like you view it...apparently so that you can tell us how disgusting it is.

I enjoy porn...and at my age, it helps to use it as video viagra. And I didn't realize there is so much of the stuff out there.

I guess our viewing habits are different.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 06:38 am
Oops.

I meant to raise you one Twisted Evil
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 06:39 am
Damn! Still didn't get it right. Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 06:41 am
tcis wrote:


The strange thing seems to be, I'd venture to say MOST women like this type of thing once in awhile. Not all the time, but once in awhile.



I think you are right about this. It's the "big strong man who's gonna take me with a passion " romance novel syndrome.
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 06:43 am
NobleCon wrote:


You ask if anyone is turned on by "traditional" relations anymore? There are some out there...so I hope.


Traditional, how? What is "traditional" sex? I hate to be the bearer of bad news but people didn't just learn how to have "dirty" sex. It's been around as long as sex has.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 08:07 am
NobleCon wrote:
Quote:
No. Firstly, a porn star is not a sex slave; she may resemble one at times, either by her own volition or by the script,

Quote:
Yes, of course we agree. I have attempted to say only that within certain venues such sexual acts carried out on the females "resemble" outright slave-handling.


These statements make about as much sense as if I were to say "Black people resemble slaves in the movie Amistad."

I can only assume from your statements that you are complaining about movies in which the intent is to portray sexual slavery of some kind. You find that personally disgusting. That is too bad. I find lots of things personally disgusting but I realize other people are allowed to make their own choices. You are not forced to watch this stuff. You were free to walk out of your buddy's room. You didn't. Are you just disgusted with your own choice for that? I get the impression that you were aroused by those pictures of women bound and are confused as to how to deal with those feelings because you think you were supposed to find them appalling.

The fact that some people like to watch it or even that they like to act it out on their own doesn't depend on your approval or disapproval. In Roman times, groups of people would gather in the cemetary at night to have sex with each other. All you had to do was show up. According to the present morals it is disgusting. But it was common back then. Sex has been with us since man first appeared. There is no new perversion today that wasn't done thousands of years ago. We have moved forward in the fact that women get to say no. Something they didn't use to be able to do.

Quote:
Weird people, maybe; mentally deficient, most certainly.

You ask if anyone is turned on by "traditional" relations anymore? There are some out there...so I hope.

Most "traditional" relationships involve sexual play of some kind. It is pretty boring to only do it missionary style for 5 minutes once a month with the lights off. The only meaning I can find in this statement is that you have had little experience with sex because your attitudes are completely naive. We all find our own boundaries when it comes to sex. If you don't like mine then stay the hell out of my bedroom.
0 Replies
 
NobleCon
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 09:49 am
Parados, are you certain of this response? In other words, have you read it prior to its posting and found absolutely no errors in it?

Those two statements make perfect sense, in that the one qualifies the other, and vice versa. As for the "black" people in Amistad, well, let us think this over...

A movie such as that involves the script, the actors carrying out the script, and so on. We know the story and the plot, the ending as well. In an adult movie, the script is minute in details and story, and the actresses constitute the prime objective of that script. More, the actresses "are" the script, and the script revolves around that. But this is secondary.

On this note of yours, I say that the actor, or the "black" actor as you put it, does not involve himself or herself in the same sorts of activity as the adult actress; torture scenes perhaps, but not that the activity is the movie. In adult movies, the activity is the movie, and the actresses, for the most part, are the activity. You can not equate the two: one is historical- factual at that- that depicts the historical record, the other is anything but historical, and the activity of the latter is the entire movie. The formats are not equivalent, and so the objectives are not equivalent; then, your comparison is not just.

As for the rest of your reply, it underakes an assumption that is just that: an open assumption of your own doing. I will tell you that it is false entirely, and you continued onward with it without question. Thank you for such consideration.

I am naive, my sexual attitudes that is? Please qualify...
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 09:55 am
NobleCon wrote:
Parados, are you certain of this response? In other words, have you read it prior to its posting and found absolutely no errors in it?

Those two statements make perfect sense, in that the one qualifies the other, and vice versa. As for the "black" people in Amistad, well, let us think this over...

A movie such as that involves the script, the actors carrying out the script, and so on. We know the story and the plot, the ending as well. In an adult movie, the script is minute in details and story, and the actresses constitute the prime objective of that script. More, the actresses "are" the script, and the script revolves around that. But this is secondary.

On this note of yours, I say that the actor, or the "black" actor as you put it, does not involve himself or herself in the same sorts of activity as the adult actress; torture scenes perhaps, but not that the activity is the movie. In adult movies, the activity is the movie, and the actresses, for the most part, are the activity. You can not equate the two: one is historical- factual at that- that depicts the historical record, the other is anything but historical, and the activity of the latter is the entire movie. The formats are not equivalent, and so the objectives are not equivalent; then, your comparison is not just.

As for the rest of your reply, it underakes an assumption that is just that: an open assumption of your own doing. I will tell you that it is false entirely, and you continued onward with it without question. Thank you for such consideration.

I am naive, my sexual attitudes that is? Please qualify...


C'mon, Con...you can do better than this. I've seen you do it.

Did you read this over before posting????

This is mostly self-serving pap...and truly does not deal with the issue Parados raised. You merely defined the activities of a porn actress and the activities of a non-porn actor...differently...for no reason than to show scorn for what Parados properly raised.

In any case, unless you are a producer of porn films...how about you stop deciding what is and what is not being done in the production.
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