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The Case of Pornography

 
 
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2005 08:06 pm
I wish to know why is it that the development of modern pornography has evolved into the "slave-handling" of women that participate in it? The models that involve themselves degrade themselves into sex slaves without borders, and I find it revolting.

Is it anything more than abusive prostitution- money for sex-slavery?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 6 • Views: 6,227 • Replies: 105
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Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2005 08:17 pm
They make a conscious choice to earn a living that way, and some make a ton of $$ doing it. It's a huge industry.
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NobleCon
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2005 08:22 pm
Yes, they do indeed. Though, for the moment, remove that choice from the activity that ensues. Does it remain as mere sex, or vigorous sex-slavery?

And, I would say that their choice does not delete the nature of it, the true nature of it that is; nor can the dollars delete that nature.

What do you think?
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2005 08:24 pm
Most prostitutes are neither employed as such by choice, nor do they make much money out of it. Pimps get the cash, which is why they are so justifiably held in contempt, and why the term pimp is a pejorative.
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Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2005 08:27 pm
NobleCon wrote:
Yes, they do indeed. Though, for the moment, remove that choice from the activity that ensues. Does it remain as mere sex, or vigorous sex-slavery?

And, I would say that their choice does not delete the nature of it, the true nature of it that is; nor can the dollars delete that nature.

What do you think?


Personally, I think people can do whatever they want, so they're not "slaves." If you remove the choice, or the income factor, than it's not porn anymore. It's sex.

In another sense though, I've heard most strippers(and I'm sure porn stars fall into this category) had troublesome upbringings...abuse, ect. So to say most of the women aren't emotionally stable is being nice.
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NobleCon
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2005 08:40 pm
Ladies and gentlemen, I am speaking of the activity; the activity before the choice, after it, or in its absence.

Say a model, x, accepts a shoot release and, consequently, is given a cashier's check in the amount of $5,000. She places it in her purse, visits the restroom, changes into whatever is available, and comes onto the film scene. The camera starts rolling, and, well, you know the rest...

So, the "choice" has been made: $5,000 for their scenario. The filming is complete, she packs her bags, and off she goes.

Now, notwithstanding the choice or that check, what is the nature of the activity she consented to for that hefty check? Mere sex, love, love-making, experimental sex, or, to my mind, outright slavery?
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Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2005 08:49 pm
So why are they any more of a slave than a person with a "normal" job who goes to work?

I say it's just mere-sex.
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NobleCon
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2005 09:00 pm
A "normal" job, as with an accountant or a auto mechanic, does not require physical abuse in order for one to obtain a pay-check. One does not have to practically ingest a penis to the point of tears or "throwing-up" in order to pay the rent or purchase food.

Have you seen the acts performed by these men for the sake of "quality" adult filming?"
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Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2005 09:05 pm
I may have a porn or two, so yes, I've seen it.

I know exactly what you're talking about, I've seen some clips online where the female didn't seem too happy with what she was doing...but not all porn seems like the woman is being abused. I've seen the porn chicks get interviewed, and a lot set boundaries on what they will and won't do.

So there are porns made where the women are being treated somewhat like slaves...and there's some where they're not.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2005 09:07 pm
NobleCon wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen, I am speaking of the activity; the activity before the choice, after it, or in its absence.

[..] Now, notwithstanding the choice or that check, what is the nature of the activity she consented to for that hefty check? Mere sex, love, love-making, experimental sex, or, to my mind, outright slavery?


What is the essence of slavery? That it involves involuntary subjugation (to hard work, to mistreatment, to total dependency, etc).

The essence of slavery is about choice - or the lack of it, rather. It therefore makes little sense to take an activity that someone chooses to do and say: well, but if you "remove" the fact that they chose to do it, then it's like slavery. If they freely choose to do it, it's not slavery.

Now to what extent their choice is a wise one, or to what extent it reflects self-esteem issues (or results in them), is a discussion in itself altogether. But you can only tackle it properly if you first face up to the fact that many people choose to make it - if and when it's as dry-cut a case as slavery, solutions are a lot simpler (close the joint down and free the women).
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2005 09:14 pm
Mind you, there's plenty of cases that are exactly like that - I'm guessing the gorier the stuff, the more likely those in it are not in there wholly voluntarily (driven to it by poverty, or outright forced to it, etc).

But there's also a booming porn industry out there that simply involves a lot of people who have chosen to take part themselves - as a way to make a bunch of money, get their five minutes of fame, or whatever. I wouldnt call that slavery.
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NobleCon
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2005 09:24 pm
My idea is that the activity required in this "industry" nowadays resembles a form of sex-slavery. The way the woman is pictured, dressed, undressed, taken, and so on...

Of course it is not slavery proper; at times though, it might be, as nimh noted. But it "resembles" it, to say the least. Compare it to the pornography of the the 70's and 80's.
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watchmakers guidedog
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2005 10:52 pm
NobleCon wrote:
Now, notwithstanding the choice or that check, what is the nature of the activity she consented to for that hefty check? Mere sex, love, love-making, experimental sex, or, to my mind, outright slavery?


One of the lessons that I've learned in the course of my life is that there is negligable differences between the lives of people. You imagine that there are, but in actual fact the life of a pornography actress is not intrinsicly different from anyone elses.

A pornography actress makes the choice to the sleep with someone else on camera as a living. For their money they are making sacrifices; straining various muscles, giving up privacy and potentially attaching connotations to an act that as humans they are driven instinctually to perform.

This is not unique. Any celebrity gives up their anonymity for a career, labourers strain their muscles and resteraunt reviewers alter their perception of an instinctive human act. All careers involve sacrifices, be it salesmen sacrificing personal integrity or honesty, artists "prostituting" their art, criminals giving up the protection of the law and society. The only "bargain" that you can make on these sacrifices is by picking ones that you have already given up or find it easier to lose.

The slavery is only that of a wage-slave, a state that we almost all endure.
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NobleCon
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2005 12:51 am
Watchmaker's guidedog:

I agree, with a few reservations. If I may, I would like to share them with you.

A set of "sacrifices" is indeed a part of our lives; moreover, a part of our careers. One must "bite the bullet" at various times throughout their days. The accountant, the mechanic, the actor, the construction worker, and the watchmaker must all handle their cards as best they can. Though, none must endure sexual cruelty.

It is of no concern to our discussion that an adult film actress has "chosen" this career, nor is it of paramount importance that she pays her rent in this fashion. Here we are speaking of the form of sexual interaction- its type, and nothing more. It is, to my mind, not relevant that she has chosen this, is compensated handsomely for it, or, say, that she enjoys this line of work. Remove all such elements from the notion of 'adult female actress' and what is left is one item: sexual interaction.

That interaction- that form of sexual communication- represents only a sexual appetite for such action; mostly, these are the appetites of the majority of men. It is this interaction that, depicted in many films and on many web pages, places the male in a dominant position and the female as the "slave."

This, to me, represents a sort of sexual cruelty.
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watchmakers guidedog
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2005 02:01 am
NobleCon wrote:
Though, none must endure sexual cruelty.


I fear that you missed my point, that we all endure cruelties. Merely the variety of cruelty that varies. For a pornography actress, they may or may not be sexual. Within other industries the cruelties may be sexual or they may be physical, emotional, etc.

Quick anecdote. When I worked at a burger joint many years ago, a manager made one of the counter-staff scrub a toilet smiling the whole time because she wasn't smiling enough for the customers.

Quote:
That interaction- that form of sexual communication- represents only a sexual appetite for such action; mostly, these are the appetites of the majority of men. It is this interaction that, depicted in many films and on many web pages, places the male in a dominant position and the female as the "slave."


I've seen a few pornographic films and magazines in my day. They're not particularly my cup of tea, I've always been more into romantic fiction but that's just an aesthetic matter to me. The point of the matter is that pornography is a wide and diverse area in which many interests are catered to. Saying that pornography consists of submissive females and dominant males is a broad generalisation of a vast genre.

I'm also curious how you are familiar with the sexual appetites of the majority of men. Is there a study I am not familiar with or is this through personal experience?

Quote:
This, to me, represents a sort of sexual cruelty.


Cruelty to whom? Clearly not the actress, (since you've said their willingness/enjoyment is irrelevant). Clearly not to the viewer. Society in general?

I find myself unsure of your exact point. Would you object to this enslavement of... let's say a cartoon character?
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Sanctuary
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2005 05:00 am
I agree with those stating that it's a choice. There is no way around it - it's a choice. I don't care how brutal it gets, how disgusting it may be, how degrading it seems, she is in there for a reason (money or nymphomania) and it's completely consentual.

That said, you'd think they'd make it more believable... Shocked
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watchmakers guidedog
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2005 05:08 am
Sanctuary wrote:
That said, you'd think they'd make it more believable... Shocked


Making it realistic would involve presenting solutions to the problems that are preventing the viewers from having sex in the first place. Presenting solutions acknowledges the problems and rubs them in. You don't make money by antagonising your target audience.
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2005 08:33 am
For a related thread, click here.
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Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2005 08:38 am
NobleCon wrote:
A "normal" job, as with an accountant or a auto mechanic, does not require physical abuse in order for one to obtain a pay-check. One does not have to practically ingest a penis to the point of tears or "throwing-up" in order to pay the rent or purchase food.

Have you seen the acts performed by these men for the sake of "quality" adult filming?"


Physical abuse? Are you kidding? Many women do this in their own homes free of charge.

Give me a break. Listen to or watch an interview of a porn star. They do not, in any way, believe they are being abused. Most of them really enjoy it and say so.
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Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2005 08:40 am
NobleCon wrote:
My idea is that the activity required in this "industry" nowadays resembles a form of sex-slavery. The way the woman is pictured, dressed, undressed, taken, and so on...


It's a fantasy called "the normal guy gets the hot, sex starved woman who will do anything to get in his pants".
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