Death Penalty Opponents, This Is Who You Champion

also interesting to see how they can play with numbers

the murder rate has dropped quite significantly in both death penalty and non-death penalty states. (significant in a statistical sense)

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/DeterMRates3.GIF

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Why would the absense of the death pently lower the murder rate?

Does it have to be pointed out that the minds of people in the US work different then those in other parts of the world?

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Baldimo wrote:

Why would the absense of the death pently lower the murder rate?

Does it have to be pointed out that the minds of people in the US work different then those in other parts of the world?

Why? I suspect this is something you're going to have to figure out, Baldimo, as it is the case in the U.S. that the murder rate in non-death penalty states has decreased at a more significant (statistically) rate than the decrease in the murder rate in death penalty states.

<and as I discovered earlier today when I was looking up info on the gay fostering thread, Americans' minds aren't really ALL that different - at least from Swedes>

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Eh, Baldimo, Ebeth isnt talking about murder rates in the US vs "other parts of the world", but about the murder rate in states in the US with death penalty vs states in the US without death penalty. Thats what the graph is about. Try again?

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Re: the discussion between yitall and Thomas, I dont have a link handy, but I've read statistical research that bore out that in America blacks are more likely to be convited than whites when accused of the same offence - and on average get a higher punishment meted out than whites for the same offence.

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I suspect Baldimo didn't look at the results of the search, simply reacted to what I initially wandered off looking for (which was U.S. v other countries).

I didn't realize the state to state info was that readily available (I guess I'm too suspicious/cynical).

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nimh wrote:

Eh, Baldimo, Ebeth isnt talking about murder rates in the US vs "other parts of the world", but about the murder rate in states in the US with death penalty vs states in the US without death penalty. Thats what the graph is about. Try again?

The graph wasn't posted when I made my post. If you look they were posted withen a minute of each other.

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gotta love this, from a blog called crooked timber

Quote:

Okay, murder rate in Texas, 1972 to 1976
12.4,12.8,13.7,13.4,12.2

1977 to 1981
13.3,14.2,16.7,16.9,16.6

From 1995 on, when Dubya cranked it up to 11, the numbers were lower:
9.0,7.7,6.8,6.8,6.1,5.9

Sadly, each of these years, W-less New York suffered under these crushing rates:
8.5,7.4,6.0,5.1,5.0,5.0

Throughout the other periods I've shown, NY has had generally lower murder rates.1 When Texas wasn't killing anybody, NY was lower. When Texas was half-heartedly frying a few, NY had a lower rate. When Texas was enthusiastically needling people, its Governor cackling all the while, NY still had a lower murder rate. Maybe it's something in the water, but it sure doesn't seem to have anything to do with how many people Texas has snuffed.

Face it, the Texas Death Machine is the criminological answer to the magnetic copper anti-arthritis bracelet.

http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/24/deterrence-and-the-death-penalty/

(Baldimo, the numbers related to the graph are a couple of posts earlier)

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No evidence from anywhere as far as I have ever been able to determine suggesting that death penalty lowers offending ANYWHERE - with the possible of almost immediate execution and almost 100% certainty of being caught for the crime.

Judicial murder does nothing but brutalise the society in the few backward countries still practising it.

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dlowan wrote:

Judicial murder does nothing but brutalise the society in the few backward countries still practising it.

this seems like a set-up, but I really didn't know dlowan was gonna post that ^^^ just as I was finding this

Quote:

4. Death Sentences and Executions

In 2004, 97 per cent of all known executions took place in China, Iran, Viet Nam and the USA.

ai link

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There simply is little to no statistical correlation between legal sanction and rate of crime, whether litterin' or murder or anything in between. Deterrance is an empty argument.

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ehbeth --

methinks that is a bit of a set-up. those are places where records are kept. death squads and the like of however many governments use them aren't so concerned with bureaucracy...

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errr, the U.S. states have death squads?

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research has demonstrated that the death penalty is only effective if a minimum of 17% executed are innocent. (my personal research to be published at a future date in My Weekly Reader)

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If deterrance worked, life without parol would be at least as effective as the death penalty. Nobody wants to live like that their entire life. Fact is, human nature being what it is, people will continue to commit capital offenses, because the payback is not so immediate as the act during commitment of the crime. Act now, worry about punishment later. There is no logical reason to impose a death penalty, if life without parole is available.

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If deterrance worked, life without parol would be at least as effective as the death penalty. Nobody wants to live like that their entire life. Fact is, human nature being what it is, people will continue to commit capital offenses, because the payback is not so immediate as the act during commitment of the crime. Act now, worry about punishment later. There is no logical reason to impose a death penalty, if life without parole is available.

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timberlandko wrote:

Some days I'm like that. Today, I've been pretty irritated by my big tractor - been a succession of chained surprises - fix one thing, another thing breaks - s'pose that's colored my mood a bit.

but it doesn't make ya wrong about it...

On the other hand, seems my WiFi network is workin' real well. Little slow the further out I get, but as long as the metal equipment shed ain't between the tractor and the house, I've got real live internet from the seat of the tractor

too cool... now how star trek is that?? "captain's log, stardate 493209856721173, i and the crew are in the process of charting planet polebean". Laughing

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They're not thinking of the death penalty v life imprisonment argument when they murder. They just don't think they're going to get caught.

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goodfielder wrote:

They're not thinking of the death penalty v life imprisonment argument when they murder. They just don't think they're going to get caught.

Well then they are stupid and deserve everything that gets thrown at them including the death penalty. To let people like this continue to breath is just plain wrong.

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Quote:

errr, the U.S. states have death squads?

beth, I'm referring to this:

Quote:

4. Death Sentences and Executions

In 2004, 97 per cent of all known executions took place in China, Iran, Viet Nam and the USA.

re-reading, though, i realize i was a little unclear on what you meant looked like a set-up...

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Death Penalty Opponents, This Is Who You Champion

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